The remodeling thread (Episode one - Fireplace!)

[Lantyssa]

My advise?  Leave the fireplace alone.

Buy some fucking trees.

[Paelos]

Yep, fucking trees will produce more trees. Soon you will have a fucking forest.

[Merusk]

Kinky

[NiX]

Then you can chop those fucking trees down and you'll have some hard wood floors.

[Hawkbit]

I wonder how this thread is going over on the gun forum?

[ghost]

I wonder how this thread is going over on the gun forum?

There are probably a few dead people by now.

[Nerf]

I wonder how this thread is going over on the gun forum?

2 replies, ~60 views, one guy saying he's in the process of doing the exact same thing and it's coming out great.  (except he bought the faux stone Lowes sells instead of casting it for 1/10th the price)

Our real estate agent is taking a look at some pics and helping us out, she's been working in the north dallas area for 20+ years and I trust her opinion more than anything else on what people are looking for around here.  She said it was definitely a good idea to ditch the brick.

I'd love to do the painting of einstein in a smoking jacket with a cigar, but as that's where the TV is going to live, it just won't work :(

If the TV would work anywhere else in that room, we'd just drop the fireplace or swap the brass and call it a day, but it doesn't really feel right where it sits right now, and since that wall is getting chopped down to open the kitchen to the living room, it definitely won't work down the road.  I'll snap a few pics of the room as it sits right now in a bit to give you guys a better feel for it.

[Paelos]

When do you go to court?

[Nerf]

Still no court date, but it looks like it will happen - apparently the landlord is 100% convinced that he has done absolutely nothing wrong and his lawyer hadn't seen any of the evidence yet.  Our lawyer sent over some of the particularly damning stuff, so now it's just a question of if his lawyer will tell him he's screwed and to try to end it quickly, or milk him for legal fees..only time will tell.  According to our counsel, it is hands down the best documented tenant vs. landlord case he's ever seen.  500+ pages of emails, over 1k photos, several hours of video, 10+ hours of audio, etc.

[SnakeCharmer]

Side question:  I've seen lots of flat panel TVs mounted above fireplaces (wood and gas) but never really thought to ask the following:

What about the heat from the fireplace affecting the lifespan of the TV?  Just seems like a bad idea.

[ghost]

It's probably not a problem with newer fireplaces, i.e. last 10 years or so.  I wouldn't do it above an older, real fireplace though.

[Polysorbate80]

Most of the heat coming from a fireplace is directed out into a room, not upwards, and unless you're actually mounting to the chimney the wall itself won't likely get hot enough to cause problems.  With a wood fireplace you will inevitably get some smoke drifting up over your TV during fire startup & tending, but a mantel shelf can help deflect that.

Still, plasmas in particular run hot, so minimizing the amount of environmental heat may help extend their lifespan.  LCDs don't generate so much heat.

Edit:  the big issue with having it over a fireplace for me was actually positioning the center channel surround speaker--to put it at "proper" height would have meant pushing the TV another foot up the wall, and I wasn't comfortable with the viewing angle then.  So, the speaker went above the TV, and I moved the other speakers up some as well to balance things.  Purists would scoff, but it still works very well.

[Nerf]

Side question:  I've seen lots of flat panel TVs mounted above fireplaces (wood and gas) but never really thought to ask the following:

What about the heat from the fireplace affecting the lifespan of the TV?  Just seems like a bad idea.

It's a full masonry fireplace that was built for wood, and then plumbed for gas.  It's just got a gas starter in it right now, we'll put in a gas log when we get around to it.
Area where the TV is going has several inches of brick, then some insulation board (foil lined on both sides, about 1/4" thick it looks like), then unfaced fiberglass insulation, then drywall.  Then it's getting framed out ~3" to be flush with the existing brick, and will have the air gap, durock cement board, metal lath, mortar, and stone/tile/whatever we put up.  Heat shouldn't be an issue, as the plastic vapor barrier (6mil plastic dropcloth, i think) showed zero signs of heat damage or shrinking.

So, heat shouldn't be an issue, but I may replace the fiberglass that's there with unfaced rockwool insulation just to be on the safe side.

RE agent got back to me on the design stuff, she said that the pic below is something she sees quite often and is pretty popular.  I think stone would come out looking better, though.  The only time tile ever looks right to me on a fireplace is if they use very thin groutlines and match the grout to the tile color.  Tile on a hearth never looks good - that edge just looks like ass.

[Merusk]

 Tile on a hearth never looks good - that edge just looks like ass.

That's why they make bullnose tiles.

[Hawkbit]

Ummm.  Yeah.  I got nothing.  The majority of folk here are telling you that your design isn't right.  It's up to you to listen or not.

[Sky]

RE agent got back to me on the design stuff, she said that the pic below is something she sees quite often and is pretty popular.  

1. Real Estate agents are virtually uneducated morons used to selling things to slightly more or less educated morons. They hear things like "I don't understand what this room is supposed to be" a lot.

2. See how that room looks nothing like your room?

Anyway, I'm with Hawkbit. I've said my piece and now look forward to the 

[Nerf]

Edit:  the big issue with having it over a fireplace for me was actually positioning the center channel surround speaker--to put it at "proper" height would have meant pushing the TV another foot up the wall, and I wasn't comfortable with the viewing angle then.  So, the speaker went above the TV, and I moved the other speakers up some as well to balance things.  Purists would scoff, but it still works very well.

Got a picture?  I'm going to be replacing the Yamaha projection surround-sound system with built-in-the-wall speakers at some point and was wondering about the center channel as well.  Would having the center channel as 2 speakers on the sides angled slightly to aim at the center of the couch work?

Like this:

[Sky]

ZOMG THE HOUSE IS ATTACKING EINY WITH LASERS

[ghost]

Have you considered a pre-cast fireplace?  They look really nice and you could undoubtedly find something that would fit the style of your house more appropriately.  

I think something like this, in particular might fit the style of your house and your own personal tastes. 

[Nerf]

Have you considered a pre-cast fireplace?  They look really nice and you could undoubtedly find something that would fit the style of your house more appropriately.  

I think something like this, in particular might fit the style of your house and your own personal tastes. 

Feels too spanish-mission-y to me, but I'm not entirely opposed to doing something like that instead of going floor to ceiling.  Wouldn't really need to go pre-cast though, not too terribly difficult to build out a frame like that and finish it in whatever, only issue would be the curves.  If theres no protruding 'rough cut/hewn' stone look, the whole thing could be framed, covered with a smooth coat of stucco mud, and then the 'grout lines' for tiles just carved into the half-set mud.  Then just wait for it to dry, stain it, and seal it.

[Sand]

I feel bad for that beautiful house you're going to fuck up with your contemporary stuff. You see the panel framing? That's a certain style. Unless you're going to rip all that out, go work with it rather than against it. Also, classic federal style = $$.

Finally, the contemporary style you like so much, young one? That's going to be the cheesy brass 80s/90s look you hate sooner than you think.

edit - what the hell does the sugar mama do that you guys can afford a place like that while you're an undergrad?

I cant figure out why he even bought a federalist style house given the predilection for a more modern style.
Why wouldnt you have simply bought a more modern design to begin with? Or some sort of ranch style home if you love the wall of rock ranch looking design for a fire place.

[Paelos]

A lot of you have obviously never lived in Texas.

Design is... well it's pretty shitty.

[Polysorbate80]

Got a picture?  I'm going to be replacing the Yamaha projection surround-sound system with built-in-the-wall speakers at some point and was wondering about the center channel as well.  Would having the center channel as 2 speakers on the sides angled slightly to aim at the center of the couch work?

Edit:  Pics added.



Disclaimer:  This sort of installation would get you mocked endlessly by people like the folks at avsforum for being all kinds of wrong.  I tested it before installation, though, and I was happy with the results so I went with it.  After all, this is a living room with a TV, not a media room.

Anyways, that's a 9' ceiling.  For reference, the bottom of the left/right speakers are 6' off the floor.  Pushing the TV up to allow room between it and the (sitting in the basement and yet to be installed  ) mantel starts to make it a strain on the neck.  

A couple of questions/comments:  where will your left/right channels go?  Eyeball-guesstimate says the "proper" placement is likely right where the windows fall; if you put your center(s) there you'll have to push the L/R out further past the windows.  It may work there, but I'd position the speakers and wire them temporarily to test the sound before cutting any holes.  I had a doorway that kept me from putting mine exactly where I wanted, so I had to push them in closer to the center--moving them further out messed with the acoustics too much.


It looks like it could go closer to the door, but it really can't; the framing and electrical in the wall don't allow for it.  Which is unfortunate, since it needs to go about 2" to the right to visually match the left speaker (which is also constrained by stud placement.  Oh well.)

If you want to put two speakers on one channel, you'll have to do some minor math to get it to work right (and not melt down your amp)  Here is an article on wiring speakers in series/parallel.  The author is talking about car speakers, but the same principle applies.

[Merusk]

A lot of you have obviously never lived in Texas.

Design is... well it's pretty shitty.

Lived, no.  Designed and built houses, yes.  It's really no shittier than any place else I've seen.  At least they include cabinets in kitchens of entry-level houses. (I'm looking at you, Chicago.)

[Sand]

A lot of you have obviously never lived in Texas.

Design is... well it's pretty shitty.

They dont have "ranch" style homes in Texas? 

[ghost]

A lot of you have obviously never lived in Texas.

Design is... well it's pretty shitty.

Lived, no.  Designed and built houses, yes.  It's really no shittier than any place else I've seen.  At least they include cabinets in kitchens of entry-level houses. (I'm looking at you, Chicago.)

They don't include cabinets in entry-level houses in Chicago?  WTF?

[Merusk]

That was pretty much my reaction when told. But yeah, nothing beyond a few base cabinets and a countertop.  If you're lucky you get a shelf on the wall.  Air Conditioning is also an upgrade-only option as is anything beyond rubber base mould.

These were all "cost saving measures" that the AP of my last employer wanted to implement here in Cincinnati because they were standard in Chicago.  She said there were more things than that pulled out of houses in Chicago, but I never got an opportunity to grill her for more specifics.

The notion that you have to match the features of your local competitors didn't fly with her, either.  She figured if she could get permission from corporate to implement them, driving our cost down the mere $5-10 grand would more than make up for the utter shell of a structure we'd be trying to pass-off on customers. 

Short term profits for long term harm.

[ghost]

Wow.  You learn something new about the evils of man every day. 

[RhyssaFireheart]

No idea what part of Chicago(land) that was happening in or when, because any parts I've looked at houses include cabinets and no rubber baseboards (WTF?  This back in the 70s?), not in new construction.

[Merusk]

She was the DP for Centex in '08 so their entry level product at that time period, I'd guess.  No idea if they built it under another product title or actually used the Centex brand for their low-end stuff. (We're talking $100k -$150k houses)  No reason for her to have lied about it that I can think of.  vOv

Ed: Something occurred to me. Were you looking at finished and ready to buy or contract-to-build?  Production is notorious for never actually building the base model for Market(Spec) homes because it would never sell. Same reason you walk into a model and every conceivable structural upgrade and finish option would be crammed in. You don't know what you're actually buying unless you go over spec sheets very carefully and know what questions to ask.

[RhyssaFireheart]

Oh Centex.  Yeah, I've heard of them.  I hadn't known about the no cabinets part, but I had heard they were very low-end houses, very bare-bones.  Don't think they had/have the best reputation for quality houses in the area.

[Merusk]

National production homebuilders rarely have good reputations.  Publicly traded ones are even worse because cutting corners and screwing subs is mandatory to maintain profit margins.

[Paelos]

National production homebuilders rarely have good reputations.  Publicly traded ones are even worse because cutting corners and screwing subs is mandatory to maintain profit margins.

We have a developer joke in Atlanta. What's the difference between gonorrhea and a Beazer home?

You can get rid of gonorrhea.

[Nerf]

Holy shit I suck at posting, see below.

[Nerf]

Been meaning to update this for about a week or so since I got the TV hung, but :effort: stopped me.

So, here it is now, we're going to do the stacked stone, probably in a grey-ish, as that was the recommendation of 2 professional designers.

TV will end up being about 8-10" higher than it is right now, as the new mantle is going to sit right about where the bottom of the TV is right now.

Paneling stripped off wall:


Framing up.  16" OC all the way up, center conduit is for electrical, right one is coax, left one is empty now and will be for the speaker wires of the in-wall surround I'm installing someday.  Little black strip is a channel that runs the span of the fireplace, with an opening cut in the center to run stuff from the TV to components on left/right of fireplace.  Left/right conduits dump directly into the channel, which I'll be separating with an insert at some point to avoid AC/DC interference between power cables and A/V cables.

As it sits now:  Durock up, ready for metal lath, mortar, and the new facade.  Ugly brass shit is getting replaced with an inside-mount set of doors that will be either flush with or recessed from the face.






Had a few small snags on the way where I needed to go buy more tools, or screws, or foam, or whatever, but all together it came together pretty nice.  Stone will go up in the month or so.  Ordering the casting molds this week.

We did have a bit of fun in the middle of it though.  I bought some 12/2, and was getting ready to run a new 20A breaker to the outlet behind the fireplace when I inspected the panel.  There was some scorching around one of the breakers, so I had our HVAC guy take a look at it when he came to fill the new system with freon a few days later.  He made a bit of a   face and told me to call an electrician.

We called our home warranty company (Old Republic), and they had a guy out 3-4 hours later.  He took about 30 seconds looking at it and said "Yeah, you need a new panel, I'll call the warranty company for an approval.  Hopefully they'll approve it, I'll let you know if they don't."

He called back about an hour and a half later and said they approved a new panel, and he'd be out the next day to install it.  Took him about 4 hours and he even tossed in the new 20A breaker I needed and made it hot for free.
Total cost for our new panel: $60 out of pocket.  Warranty company picked up the other $1300.

There was some sort of funky oily residue on some of the breakers too, and not your normal burning plastic oil.  It seemed like someone literally hosed down the panel with WD-40 or motor oil or something.  Maybe they were trying to reduce the friction of their electricity to make it run faster.

I really can't say enough good things about Old Republic right now, our microwave died and was part of a microwave/oven combo unit.  They couldn't get parts and cut us a check for $1700.  Then the dishwasher stopped getting shit clean, couldn't find parts for it either and they just told us today that they'll be cutting us a check for a new dishwasher too - $370.  Both appliances are ~26 years old.  We've had the house for 2.5 months, and they've already paid out close to 4 grand on a $500 policy, without once trying to pull some 'You're not covered for that' bullshit.



Old panel/breakers: