The remodeling thread (Episode one - Fireplace!)

[Nerf]

So, this all started about a week ago, we finally got a big sectional to replace the single sofa in a 19'x19' room, which meant it was time to wall-mount the 50" Plasma.  Off to Amazon and a shiny new Cheetah mount arrives.

I head off to Lowes to grab a studfinder, and of course it's not finding shit, at least not in any way that makes sense.  I figured the 2 sheets of 1/4" plywood paneling over the drywall were fucking with it, but test holes weren't revealing any studs above the fireplace.  I don't trust a $1k+ TV to anchors, so I started peeling back the paneling, and found that whoever framed out the wall after the masons were done with the fireplace was a fucking idiot.  Studs are 19" on center, and one of the 2x4s is a hair under 1.25" wide.  Welp.  Time to rip out that section of wall and put studs in the right place to actually hang a mount.

This got the gears turning on the fireplace reno we were planning on doing this summer.  We had originally planned on just doing a stackstone/ledgerstone overlay on the existing brick and dropping the mantle to a reasonable height.  Having to gut the wall anyway got us thinking about doing it floor-to-ceiling, as it would look much better with the 11' ceilings and save me from having to replace the damned paneling I need to tear out.

Stone veeners are fucking expensive.  We're looking at ~100sqft total, and this stuff is all $10-15/sqft.  I'm a cheap bastard, and while $1k may be cheap to refinish a fireplace floor-to-ceiling if you're paying someone, I'm a DIY guy and that money can be better spent elsewhere - like the kitchen and master bath remodel that have to be done.  Hours of google/froogle looking for cheaper alternatives led me to a site selling urethane molds for casting your own veneer in concrete.  $100 for the mold, *maybe* $50 in concrete, and then a bit in stain/sealer.

So, before I pull the trigger on this, has anyone ever actually done concrete casting?  My biggest worry is getting a pitted/shitty surface.  Plan is to rig up a vibrating table by screwing my jigsaw into it without a blade and give it a good 5-10minute shake after the pour to make sure the air bubbles aren't at the bottom of the mold (which is the textured part/face that you'll see), and use more of a mortar mix than a concrete with chunky aggregate.  I'll stain and seal them before they go up, but given the texture polishing seems like it would be impossible.  Each finished piece is 16"x4" and .7" thick (.5sqft).

Biggest downside I can see so far is that it's going to take about a month to get all of the stones made.  The $100 buys 5 .5sqft molds, and the concrete needs to set for about 24 hours after pouring.  That means 2.5sqft/day, or about 40 days to get enough stones to do the job.

Link to mold:
http://us.ebid.net/for-sale/mold-veneer-garden-wall-stone-mold-concrete-moulds-30777248.htm?from=googlebase
Finished product (ignore the color)


Any help here would be appreciated, heres some pics of the room, and a really, really shitty photoshop of what it might look like afterwards (forgot to add a mantle, whoops)
Scale of the stones is off on the photoshop, and the pattern won't repeat that much.  I just repeated a 1/4 stone chunk or so to get around the watermark and to correct the angle the sample picture was taken at.

Current:



Photoshop:



I'll take pictures as the work progresses, I'm going to rough-mount it tomorrow to a couple supports that are in place and happen to be the right vertical distance apart to let me sink the lag bolts in them.  This weekend the bit above the mantle will get framed out in 2x4s, secured to the existing wall+ceiling, and then covered in tileboard/cement backerboard to be flush with the brick.

Planning on hanging the various components (receiver, ps3, cable box, wii) on glass shelves to the left and right of fireplace.  Going to run a new outlet and cable hookup into hollow space behind where the veneer will go, and then have small cutouts (with plugs made at same time, in case someone down the line doesn't want to wallmount) in the stone to run cables to a powerstrip.  Then run conduit from the hollow space to left/right of fireplace so all of the cabling/etc from the components on the glass shelves can be hidden.  I'll need to have an access hatch on the side to get to the power strip as well, I've got some ideas on how to do it, but nothing concrete (heh) so far.

[Sheepherder]

So, before I pull the trigger on this, has anyone ever actually done concrete casting?  My biggest worry is getting a pitted/shitty surface.  Plan is to rig up a vibrating table by screwing my jigsaw into it without a blade and give it a good 5-10minute shake after the pour to make sure the air bubbles aren't at the bottom of the mold (which is the textured part/face that you'll see), and use more of a mortar mix than a concrete with chunky aggregate.  I'll stain and seal them before they go up, but given the texture polishing seems like it would be impossible.

1. Yes I've worked with concrete.
2. Making it as smooth as you want is unlikely.
3. Will this be exposed to high heat anywhere?  If so, bad idea unless you're dead certain there's no voids.
4. Screw with the mix too much and you'll fuck it up completely.
5. Consider using a plasticizer or superplasticizer to render the mix more fluid if you go through with this.
6. Are you aware how heavy that wall will be?

[Oban]

I would post in this thread, but it saddens me when I realize that it will most likely be deleted after Nerf decides to sue the concrete vendor for failing to disclose that the mix he used contained radionuclides.

[Paelos]

I think it looks odd going all the way to the ceiling.

[Sand]

A) For the love of God rip out that 70's/80's brass fireplace and paint it black or replace it with a more updated black facing.

B) Do not use that horrible grey color stone you photoshopped into the pic. Use a more natural tan or sandstone color it will work better with the flooring you have.

C) A month? And you arent even sure if you can do it right? And it involves a fireplace which is the biggest single source for house fires? Buck up and spend the grand.

[NiX]

Let Einstein decide.

[Reg]

I would post in this thread, but it saddens me when I realize that it will most likely be deleted after Nerf decides to sue the concrete vendor for failing to disclose that the mix he used contained radionuclides.

I must admit I'm not feeling super enthusiastic about yet another "pay attention to me!!!1!" Nerf thread just now.

[Paelos]

I demand resolution to the last thread before giving more advice.

[Mosesandstick]

Tough crowd. I just want more pictures of Einstein.

[MuffinMan]

Link to mold:
http://us.ebid.net/for-sale/mold-veneer-garden-wall-stone-mold-concrete-moulds-30777248.htm?from=googlebase

I would personally go for this this unless cost is an issue. I think it would look very nice in your new place.

[Polysorbate80]

Not a huge fan of the floor-to-ceiling fireplaces.

This is more my taste:



That's the one that's going in our living room, but with marble rather than that horrible stone in the sample pic.  Got a little different version for the smaller fireplace in the master bedroom.

The pieces have been in my basement for almost a month now, just waiting for the contractor to heal up from his broken hip to finish it up.

[slog]

Don't do it.  Hire a contractor and then sue him for not getting the permits.

[Sjofn]

Einstein in that last picture made me laugh out loud.

I also agree that a warmer color would be better with your floors.

[Sky]

For the love of god, do some sourcework first. That looks awful, it's out of step with the style of the room (which is awesome btw!) and it will cost you equity down the road. Rip out the shitty brass cheese. Put in a nice classic federal style fireplace and mantel.

[Nerf]

That color isn't what we were planning, I just suck at photoshop.  The finished product would be a dark grey that we stain and seal.  I know that it looks incredibly fucking odd photoshopped in.

Brass shit is getting yanked and spraypainted black until we replace it with something that fits better.

Heat shouldn't be a huge issue - everything is going over the existing brick, or built out over cement board.  The vapor barrier behind where the cement board will be hung is still in perfect shape, so it's not getting *that* hot.

Youtube videos from the mold manufacturer (globmarble) talk about them using plaster basically.  They use a gypsum based medium that appears to be about the consistency of runny pancake batter.  My worry with using plaster is that it will feel fake.  I want it to at least feel somewhat like stone to the touch, even if the sealer will give it a bit of plasticy/epoxy feel.

[ghost]

Tough crowd. I just want more pictures of Einstein.

That was a pretty good one of him hanging out on the back of the couch. 

[Merusk]

First thought: Check your joists. You're adding about 500# to that area on a permanent basis, you might want to add some blocking or sister some members, depending on how overspanned they are.  

You talk about how the framing is 19"o.c. behind the wall but don't mention a header over the fireplace opening. (By the way, framing is done first, typically. So they framed it wrong or the masons moved those studs. The latter is more common, yay trades.)  Is there one?  If not, your studs are going to be as effective as those screw anchors when you nail them into the existing sheathing instead of getting them some proper bearing.

Full height fireplaces can look nice if done right.  What you're describing? Full height faux stone with glass shelves in that room? Not done right.  However it's your home and your tastes that have to be appeased so it's your call.  For that room I think something more like the fireplace on this page would be better.  http://donhughesdevelopment.com/?page_id=12    Take out the cabinet in the middle, make it flat and stick the TV there.  That's based on just that one picture of the room, though.  We know nothing about the scale and features of the rest of the house.

Keep in mind that you being a 'cheap bastard' and only spending $200 on it means it's going to look like a $200 fireplace when you decide to move.  Jobs on the cheap never hold up as well.

[Sand]

I demand resolution to the last thread before giving more advice.

Why didnt I think of this!!!
Screw you and your fireplace Nerf! Nothing more until we get resolution!


 

[SnakeCharmer]

Keep in mind that you being a 'cheap bastard' and only spending $200 on it means it's going to look like a $200 fireplace when you decide to move.  Jobs on the cheap never hold up as well.

Truth.

That fireplace (besides being ugly) is going to stretch that wall vertically when it doesn't need it.  Those two windows do a fine job of that.  Besides, when people walk into a room, you don't want them to immediately notice one thing (whether it's exceptionally beautiful or exceptionally ugly).  Trust me, they're going to notice THAT thing.

[Nerf]

Keep in mind that you being a 'cheap bastard' and only spending $200 on it means it's going to look like a $200 fireplace when you decide to move.  Jobs on the cheap never hold up as well.

Truth.

That fireplace (besides being ugly) is going to stretch that wall vertically when it doesn't need it.  Those two windows do a fine job of that.  Besides, when people walk into a room, you don't want them to immediately notice one thing (whether it's exceptionally beautiful or exceptionally ugly).  Trust me, they're going to notice THAT thing.

I'll give in that my photoshop makes it look pretty fucking horrible, but thats more my fault than the stone.  These things can look gorgeous, and me being a cheap bastard doesn't mean the quality will suffer.  The cultured stone facades you can buy at lowes or online are essentially the exact same thing I'd be making, only at a cost of $750-1k+ just for the stone, as compared to $200.  The money on the framing and everything else would be spent either way.

Heres a photo I found online of what we're looking for in a finished product, with big windows included:

[Merusk]

They CAN look gorgeous, in the right setting.  A Federal/ Colonial style room is not that setting.  Note the lack of ornamentation throughout the rest of the room in that picture.  The wall becomes a feature because it fits in to the spartan nature of the windows and walls. 

I'm not even going to argue on the rest, it's not worth it as your mind is made up. Hell, it's obviously made up on the design too so that's the last I'll say on it as well.

[RhyssaFireheart]

Basically what Merusk said.  The pic above has the fireplace/wall as the focal point of the room framed by the windows, but everything else is kept minimalist to not conflict.  Plus it looks as if that room were 1.5 or 2 storeys high, and not the more normal looking height of 9-10 feet (if that) of your room.  With the other ornamentation around the walls and the windows, I just can't see it working out too well.  Still, your place, your call. 

[Nerf]

If my mind were already made up I'd have already bought the stuff.  The only thing that's 100% right now is 1) the TV is getting mounted above the fireplace, and 2) the brick has got to go.

My pictures are pretty shitty and it's hard to get a feel for the room, which is my fault.  Heres some pictures from the listing.  Note our furniture looks absolutely nothing like this, and is much more contemporary.

The wall between the living room (where the fireplace is) and the kitchen (wall behind stove) is getting removed and the opening will match the height of the other doorways.  Living room has 11' ceilings, family room that leads out to patio starts at 11' and slopes down standard height.  Every room in the house has the ceilings vaulted in some way, although only the living room is flat.  Most of them go up a few feet in sort of a conical turret shape.

Pics:

Their stuff does make it look extremely formal and traditional, but our style is much more contemporary and all of the tacky brass and outdated 80s look is going.  Kitchen is getting all stainless appliances, granite countertops, cabinet doors are having the inserts replaced with frosted glass, handles will all be brushed nickel/stainless, etc.  We're trying damned hard to merge traditional and contemporary together without it being jarring - which is why we decided on stone for the fireplace.  If we were just doing what we wanted and didn't give a shit about ever needing to sell this place (like possibly when I finish my undergrad and have to go a medical school somewhere other than Dallas), we would put in something like this:

It sucks, because we're having to not only design for what we like, but for what someone else might think in a few years.  We don't know for a fact we'll have to move for medschool, but it's a definite possibility.  I've looked at thousands of fireplace pics, and stone seems like the best option to meet in the middle.  With the open kitchen and new appliances/counters/cabinet doors, it will definitely look more contemporary, but the crown molding and wanescoting in the family room are staying, so it has a traditional vibe as well.

I'm all ears, I've just looked really fucking hard and can't find anything else that we think would work with the overall style.  Putting in a federal/colonial style fireplace surround wouldn't go at all with the more sleek feeling of the kitchen once it's done.

[Furiously]

I would have just gone with some lag bolts into the studs that were there with a wall mount and not given a rats ass they were off center. Trick for future reference. Use a magnet to find the screws. Or push a coat hanger through and exploratory hole and fish around.

Course now you have a mess, so you do need to do something.  

I've asked three gay friends of mine to take a look and they all say, "Put it back how it was before." One of them suggested taking out the bricks on the floor as well as the ones in the fireplace and getting a piece of granite cut. Or go cheap and use 3 pieces and live with a couple seams, which is what I would likely do. You could buy a $79 counter piece and actually saw it yourself with a diamond blade and some water. Note you will get some small chips doing this, but put some tape on it where you are cutting and make it so the side you cut is covered by a small wood mantle you make. Wear eye protection.

[NowhereMan]

Actually replacing the bricks with granite backing sounds a much better idea than the wall to ceiling faux stone plan.  If you're set on ditching the brickwork then I'd say go with that simply because what you're planning right now isn't going to look good. It looks awesome in certain settings (and I'd imagine when done in real stone by a skilled worker for a large amount of money) but I really don't think it's going to work that well in your room. Covering the brass is going to contribute a fair amount to making it less jarring with the kitchen and it would probably be enough to replace the brickwork.

[Merusk]

What the two above said. 1 or 3 Piece granite with a simpler surround.  Black Granite w/ black firedoors will give it a more contemporary update that won't look out of place once the kitchen is done.  Your whole house would need a revamp to make the other design work

As Ryssa pointed out it was still a little squatt. You're stuck with a fixed width when a narrower one is called for, something that would be accentuated by the windows that are about 6-12" too short for that style.

Something like this:  http://www.woodworkersworkshop.com/graphics26/skil-fireplace-mantle.jpg  with the granite.  It's simpler and more contemporary than a true colonial or federal fireplace because it doesn't have the detailing on the wood.  It's also more in tune with the overall style of the house.  For variations, I'd look at lowering the height of or altogether removing the wood header on it so that the granite is the strongest part of the top assembly.  In that pic it feels like there's too much wood.

[slog]

As a longtime homeowner, the best advice I can give you is to do nothing for a year.  After the year is up, make a long term plan.  The biggest mistake new home buyers make is making renovations without a plan.

[Paelos]

As a longtime homeowner, the best advice I can give you is to do nothing for a year.  After the year is up, make a long term plan.  The biggest mistake new home buyers make is making renovations without a plan.

Or letting mold grow.

[ghost]

I'm really glad that picture was a photoshop. 

I'm with the other guys-  make sure what you choose fits the house and consider resale.  And slog has a great point.  Sit on this stuff and it will be easier to make the decision. 

[Sand]

I'm really glad that picture was a photoshop. 

I'm with the other guys-  make sure what you choose fits the house and consider resale.  And slog has a great point.  Sit on this stuff and it will be easier to make the decision. 

This ^ and what Furiously's gay friends said.

Your wall of rock belongs in a mountain lodge or cabin, not in your house. It would be as jarring as hanging a stuffed elk head in that formal living room.

[Sky]

I feel bad for that beautiful house you're going to fuck up with your contemporary stuff. You see the panel framing? That's a certain style. Unless you're going to rip all that out, go work with it rather than against it. Also, classic federal style = $$.

Finally, the contemporary style you like so much, young one? That's going to be the cheesy brass 80s/90s look you hate sooner than you think.

edit - what the hell does the sugar mama do that you guys can afford a place like that while you're an undergrad?

[ghost]

Yeah, for every "contemporary" change that you make to the house you are literally costing yourself money.  You'd be better off to just go some nice contemporary artwork and/or furniture that you like.  Even that may hamper resale, because, as they say, presentation is everything.

[Hawkbit]

Commission an artist to paint a large portrait of Einstein in a cigar jacket and hang that over the fireplace instead.

[Paelos]

Commission an artist to paint a large portrait of Einstein in a cigar jacket and hang that over the fireplace instead.

I'm behind this idea.

[Merusk]

edit - what the hell does the sugar mama do that you guys can afford a place like that while you're an undergrad?

You ask this after they were so readily able to set up multiple webcams on a few hours notice?