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MahrinSkel
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When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #1365 on: September 04, 2019, 12:39:10 AM

So ESA had to do an emergency course change on one of their satellites because SpaceX's magical "it is going to be the bestest internets ever" satellites was on a collision course with it.

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/09/spacex-satellite-was-on-collision-course-until-esa-satellite-was-re-routed/
Fuck your weather satellite, if I get Super Satellite Internet at the cost of reliable hurricane predictions, so be it.

Seriously, extremely close LEO is a place for disposable satellites, if you aren't prepared to lose it, don't fly it.

--Dave

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
Draegan
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Reply #1366 on: September 04, 2019, 08:30:40 AM

My brother in law is working on those satellites. (Process engineer)
Mandella
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Reply #1367 on: September 04, 2019, 01:02:45 PM

I loved this tweet from Matt Desch (guy who owns Iriduim):





To break it down in non-alarmist terms, everybody who runs constellations has to do frequent collision avoidance. ESA averages about one a week IIRC. The problem here is that SpaceX did not respond to ESAs concerns quickly enough (SpaceX actually admitted their bad, and claimed an internal message forwarding error) and ESA had to actually expend prop and move their sat. They might have had to move theirs anyway depending on the coin flip, but having no reply from SpaceX gave them no choice. Pretty much end of story, except that ESA is working on setting up (and getting funding for) their own automated collision avoidance system and is suddenly interested in publicizing just how crowded it is up there.

And if you see anything by Greg Wyler, please remember he is the founder of OneWeb, and if there is something bad he can say about SpaceX he will be saying it.

All that understood, however, it is past time that some sort of Space Traffic Control is established. Right now collision avoidance is worked out by emails and, apparently, tweets. There really does need to be a better way.
Chimpy
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WWW
Reply #1368 on: September 04, 2019, 11:00:33 PM

The idea of throwing thousands of more objects into LEO just so that you can provide "fast internet" to the "under served" is ludicrous. (Hint: the people who will be using it won't be the poor people in remote areas, it will be priced out of their reach)

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Sir T
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Reply #1369 on: September 05, 2019, 12:40:10 AM

Unfortunatly, there probably wont be anything set up to police this stuff until there is a major collision event. Thats the way these things seem to pan out, everyone keeps pushing the way things are becasue they have got away with it all up until now, and the Status Quo is easier and cheaper.

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
Mandella
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Reply #1370 on: September 05, 2019, 11:55:05 AM

The idea of throwing thousands of more objects into LEO just so that you can provide "fast internet" to the "under served" is ludicrous. (Hint: the people who will be using it won't be the poor people in remote areas, it will be priced out of their reach)

I dunno about poor, but I am their target demographic. Rural, absolutely shit internet, and no terrestrial improvement options at all in the foreseeable future. The telecoms have even stopped the pretense of promising "in the next ten years," and folks I know in the ISP business honestly just laugh when they check the population density out here, even though we're only five miles from the nearest town and cable.

So yeah, there is a business case for this, and if you don't believe Musk maybe Bezos? Or Wyler?
Mandella
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Reply #1371 on: September 05, 2019, 12:15:02 PM

Unfortunatly, there probably wont be anything set up to police this stuff until there is a major collision event. Thats the way these things seem to pan out, everyone keeps pushing the way things are becasue they have got away with it all up until now, and the Status Quo is easier and cheaper.

There have already been collisions, and there will be more. That's one of the reasons that everything that goes up must have a deorbit (or graveyard orbit) plan now. It's also the reason various agencies and businesses are looking at debris removal methods for satellites that either went up before this was mandated or have just failed.

The issue now is the shear volume of traffic. Hell, it's starting to look like, well, Earth up there. You know, where we have millions of individual craft constantly moving around and often hitting each other, sometimes to huge loss of life and property? And where we have worked out some pretty elaborate traffic control systems to try to keep that at a minimum?

Right now the system in space is that once a possible collision is detected the two agencies involved just get in touch with each other and effectively flip a coin to see who moves what. Or maybe they send a delegate to arm wrestle. There is no fixed system in place just different policies and risk assessments, and if somebody does not respond for whatever reason, well, in this case the ESA just got huffy and moved their own damn satellite so no real danger, but it's easy to see situations where both sides get stubborn or unresponsive and you get a collision.

Now before anyone says Kessler, remember that the Kessler syndrome is not a long term problem in LEO. The smaller scattered debris deorbits quickly, and the larger stuff can be tracked and just becomes another satellite to watch out for. Kessler is dangerous in MEO and somewhat above, but even then can take years for the chain reaction to develop fully.

Where I'm going with all that is that yes, we need an international standard of space traffic control, just like we have international standards for flight and marine traffic. I mean, there will still be collisions, but at least it makes it easier for the lawyers to figure out who was to blame.

Real edit to add: Just to be clear, I'm actually mostly agreeing with you SirT, just adding to the thoughts.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2019, 12:35:23 PM by Mandella »
Mandella
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Reply #1372 on: September 06, 2019, 12:48:33 PM

Just a reminder that India is going to try to soft land their Vikram lander on the moon today about 4:00 PM EST, making them if successful the fourth nation to do so.

Ars is supposed to put up a live link as soon as they have one available,

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/09/the-day-has-come-for-india-to-try-for-a-historic-moon-landing/?comments=1

Bear in mind that the coverage is going to be "old style" with lots of computer animation and scenes of people watching monitors in the control room (and probably cuts to heavily politicized speeches), but its still exciting to wait for those first real images back from the surface...

After action edit: And I'm going to have to wait a while longer. Loss of signal at the last 2 point something kilometers.

Heartbreaking.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2019, 03:54:30 PM by Mandella »
Brolan
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Reply #1373 on: September 06, 2019, 07:58:02 PM

What's the word?  The landing sequence never happened?
MahrinSkel
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When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #1374 on: September 06, 2019, 08:59:09 PM

What's the word?  The landing sequence never happened?
It went off telemetry and then appeared to land a couple of kilometers away from the intended zone, but never re-established contact. Might be spread across the surface, might be sitting there with a busted antenna but otherwise fine. Polar location keeps anyone from just aiming a telescope at it.

--Dave

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
Mandella
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Reply #1375 on: September 06, 2019, 09:53:50 PM

Their orbiter that carried Vikram is fully operational and in a polar orbit, but I don't know if it has the optical resolution to make much out.

But even so, of course not being able to transmit dooms the mission as much as leaving a crater. Even more so. If it has dug a crater exposing a sheet of ice then the primary mission would have still been accomplished!
calapine
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Reply #1376 on: September 08, 2019, 05:41:01 AM



 Heartbreak awesome, for real Heartbreak

Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic!
Mandella
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Reply #1377 on: September 14, 2019, 11:27:28 AM



This happened Sept 10th so old news I guess, but holy crap you don't see this everyday. JAXA (Japanese space agency) had a fire on the pad that *didn't* result in an earth shattering kaboom. Which is all the more impressive considering that the fire burned for like sixteen minutes before they could get any fire suppression on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tI5u0x7toTU

That's a short clip, and well worth watching for the pucker factor. That's not a failed ignition -- launch was supposed to be three and a half hours from then.

And as usual, the investigation is ongoing, and it might be a while before we know, even in general, what went wrong.

Also, glad ISS is kept stocked with plenty of supplies...
« Last Edit: September 14, 2019, 11:31:08 AM by Mandella »
calapine
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Reply #1378 on: October 16, 2019, 11:17:13 PM

Canopée: Ariane 6's future carrier / stage-transport vessels. With sails!




Watch it here: https://twitter.com/JareelSkaj/status/1184553881356984320

"Video showcasing #Ariane6 hybrid motor, sailing-assisted carrier vessel Canopée built by French startup Zéphyr & Borée and Jifmar Offshore Services.
4 x 363㎡ sails for a total of 1452㎡, dual engine diesel+LNG motors, 121m beam.
To be delivered 2022."

Trés cool!
« Last Edit: October 16, 2019, 11:32:28 PM by calapine »

Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic!
Sir T
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Reply #1379 on: November 05, 2019, 04:48:26 PM

Quote
Voyager 2 reaches interstellar space: Scientists detect plasma density jump

Researchers at the University of Iowa report that the spacecraft Voyager 2 has entered the interstellar medium (ISM), the region of space outside the bubble-shaped boundary produced by wind streaming outward from the sun. Voyager 2, thus, becomes the second human-made object to journey out of our sun's influence, following Voyager 1's solar exit in 2012.

In a new study, the researchers confirm Voyager 2's passage on Nov. 5, 2018, into the ISM by noting a definitive jump in plasma density detected by an Iowa-led plasma wave instrument on the spacecraft. The marked increase in plasma density is evidence of Voyager 2 journeying from the hot, lower-density plasma characteristic of the solar wind to the cool, higher-density plasma of interstellar space. It's also similar to the plasma density jump experienced by Voyager 1 when it crossed into interstellar space.

"In a historical sense, the old idea that the solar wind will just be gradually whittled away as you go further into interstellar space is simply not true," says Iowa's Don Gurnett, corresponding author on the study, published in the journal Nature Astronomy. "We show with Voyager 2—and previously with Voyager 1—that there's a distinct boundary out there. It's just astonishing how fluids, including plasmas, form boundaries."

Gurnett, professor emeritus in the UI Department of Physics and Astronomy, is the principal investigator on the plasma wave instrument aboard Voyager 2. He is also the principal investigator on the plasma wave instrument aboard Voyager 1 and authored the 2013 study published in Science that confirmed Voyager 1 had entered the ISM.

Voyager 2's entry into the ISM occurred at 119.7 astronomical units (AU), or more than 11 billion miles from the sun. Voyager 1 passed into the ISM at 122.6 AU. The spacecraft were launched within weeks of each other in 1977, with different mission goals and trajectories through space. Yet they crossed into the ISM at basically the same distances from the sun.

That gives valuable clues to the structure of the heliosphere—the bubble, shaped much like a wind sock, created by the sun's wind as it extends to the boundary of the solar system.

"It implies that the heliosphere is symmetric, at least at the two points where the Voyager spacecraft crossed," says Bill Kurth, University of Iowa research scientist and a co-author on the study. "That says that these two points on the surface are almost at the same distance."

"There's almost a spherical front to this," adds Gurnett. "It's like a blunt bullet."

Data from the Iowa instrument on Voyager 2 also gives additional clues to the thickness of the heliosheath, the outer region of the heliosphere and the point where the solar wind piles up against the approaching wind in interstellar space, which Gurnett likens to the effect of a snowplow on a city street.

The Iowa researchers say the heliosheath has varied thickness, based on data showing Voyager 1 sailed 10 AU farther than its twin to reach the heliopause, a boundary where the solar wind and the interstellar wind are in balance and considered the crossing point to interstellar space. Some had thought Voyager 2 would make that crossing first, based on models of the heliosphere.

"It's kind of like looking at an elephant with a microscope," Kurth says. "Two people go up to an elephant with a microscope, and they come up with two different measurements. You have no idea what's going on in between. What the models do is try to take information that we have from those two points and what we've learned through the flight and put together a global model of the heliosphere that matches those observations."

The last measurement obtained from Voyager 1 was when the spacecraft was at 146 AU, or more than 13.5 billion miles from the sun. The plasma wave instrument is recording that the plasma density is rising, in data feeds from a spacecraft now so far away that it takes more than 19 hours for information to travel from the spacecraft to Earth.

"The two Voyagers will outlast Earth," Kurth says. "They're in their own orbits around the galaxy for five billion years or longer. And the probability of them running into anything is almost zero."

"They might look a little worn by then," Gurnett adds with a smile.

The Iowa study is one of five papers on Voyager 2 published in Nature Astronomy. These papers confirm the passage of Voyager 2 to interstellar space and provide details on the characteristics of the heliopause.

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
Mandella
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Reply #1380 on: November 05, 2019, 09:33:37 PM

I can still clearly remember going to a planetarium show highlighting the Voyagers a year or so before they were actually launched.

It's cool to finally truly see them off, finally out of the cradle of the solar system.

We'll catch up one day.
Abagadro
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Reply #1381 on: November 05, 2019, 11:27:08 PM

V-GER will be back soon.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
Mandella
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Reply #1382 on: November 11, 2019, 12:06:28 PM

My brother in law is working on those satellites. (Process engineer)

Hey Draegan is your brother in law still working on Starlink? If so congrats on another batch of 60 in orbit!

He one of these guys?




And congrats to SpaceX for this booster's fourth launch and landing:



Draegan
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Reply #1383 on: November 13, 2019, 02:27:30 PM

My brother in law is working on those satellites. (Process engineer)

Hey Draegan is your brother in law still working on Starlink? If so congrats on another batch of 60 in orbit!

He one of these guys?




He's in manufacturing, so I have no idea if he would be in videos. Not sure what he's working on these days.
And congrats to SpaceX for this booster's fourth launch and landing:




Teleku
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https://i.imgur.com/mcj5kz7.png


Reply #1384 on: December 20, 2019, 08:10:11 AM

“Boeing astronaut capsule for Nasa stalls in orbit”

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-50855395

Doh!

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
01101010
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You call it an accident. I call it justice.


Reply #1385 on: December 20, 2019, 08:33:47 AM

Boeing is really having a rough time this past year...

"I want to watch it all burn in an orgy of smashed Coke machines and weasel rape." - HaemishM
Brolan
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Reply #1386 on: December 20, 2019, 04:34:30 PM

What?  Are they using the same engineers that worked on the 737 Max?
Mandella
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Reply #1387 on: December 22, 2019, 12:04:21 PM

What?  Are they using the same engineers that worked on the 737 Max?

Using the same QA process apparently.

I'm actually pretty bummed at this. We need multiple carriers able to dependably lift humans to LEO, and as much of a SpaceX and new space booster as I am I want Starliner to be as safe and reliable as possible, and I want it flying.

But I do not want to see NASA administrators normalizing deviance and setting us up for another series of Shuttle type disasters by handwaving major issues. Boeing needs to run another complete live uncrewed flight test here, and it is shocking to be hearing that such a sensible requirement might be waived and humans put on board for the next flight.
Count Nerfedalot
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Reply #1388 on: January 26, 2020, 09:40:42 PM

So where's all the snark about Space-X blowing up a rocket?  why so serious?  Granted they did it deliberately while testing the Crew Dragon escape system. Successfully this time, without any RUD.

The thing I'm trying to clarify, but haven't found any info, is that apparently the booster blew up on its own, without the range officer mashing the big red button, due to aerodynamic pressures? Presumably this is from losing the streamlining when the Dragon took off so it was just left shoving a blunt tube through the air at Mach+ speeds?

Yes, I know I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
Abagadro
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Reply #1389 on: January 26, 2020, 11:54:21 PM

Ya, it doesn't take much at those speeds to break up which is likely what happened. The Challenger didn't "explode" as most people think, it broke up because it got turned sideways while going Mach 2 and then the fuel from the liquid tank ignited into a fireball.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
Mandella
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Reply #1390 on: January 27, 2020, 11:40:57 PM

The really surprising thing was that contrary to everyone's expectations the second stage, still fully pressurized with fuel and LOX, apparently broke free of the disintegrating first stage and held together all the way down to the water, where it exploded in an earth (or water) shattering kaboom.

Initial reports on the IFA (In Flight Abort) are very good, by the way, with everything working to spec.

 Thumbs up!
Mandella
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Reply #1391 on: January 30, 2020, 11:40:39 AM

Mandella
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Reply #1392 on: February 26, 2020, 04:44:11 PM

This is a cool image taken from Northrop Grumman's Mission Extension Vehicle as it moves in to dock with the nearly fuel expended Intelsat 901. Actually, docking is kinda the wrong term, since it attached itself to the commsat by way of inserting a probe into Intelsat's thruster nozzle and expanding a grapple inside.

 ACK!

But be that as it may, it is the first docking by unmanned commercial spacecraft, and will extend the life expectancy of Intelsat 901 for another five years.





Edit: Forgot the link, if you want to read more:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/02/in-a-historic-first-one-private-satellite-docks-to-another-in-orbit/
calapine
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Reply #1393 on: February 28, 2020, 03:25:38 PM


Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic!
Mandella
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Reply #1394 on: February 29, 2020, 12:18:26 PM

Sir T
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Reply #1395 on: February 29, 2020, 06:45:10 PM

You can see the flash as it went through the glass dome around the Earth.

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
calapine
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Reply #1396 on: May 12, 2020, 05:27:38 PM

Something cool I literally just found out and wanted to share.

Back in 2008 ESA built the Minmatar battlecruiser of satellites:





Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic!
Mandella
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Reply #1397 on: May 26, 2020, 11:31:46 AM

Here's wishing the best for Bob and Doug's flight tomorrow (weather permitting)!




Not a lot of attention on it due to the plague and all, but this has been a pretty interesting year for spaceflight. Rocket Lab experimenting with reuse, Chinese probes and launchers, Starlink going up and One Web going down (economically speaking), and a load of other things.

Might have to sort though it all and find some more pretty pictures to post.
Sky
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WWW
Reply #1398 on: May 26, 2020, 03:58:44 PM

I've been trying to follow space news as a relief from the tardery here on Earth. I'm kind of hoping that China pushing for a Mars-based space race (also posturing for a new cold war) will hurt someone's tiny ego enough to really kick things into a whole new level.

Mandella
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Reply #1399 on: May 26, 2020, 08:48:16 PM

You're going to have a lot to distract you tomorrow then, unless the launch gets weather booted to Saturday.*

It's almost like it's the first crewed launch in a decade from Kennedy Space Center. They might even manage to work in a mention of it during the regular news cycle...

 Ohhhhh, I see.

With a little less snark and copying from a certain Ken the Bin's post from another forum:

NASA dedicated webcast YouTube video for tomorrow, scheduled to start at 16:00 UTC (12:00pm EDT):

Making History: NASA and SpaceX Launch Astronauts to Space!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aymrnzianf0

Here are links for NASA TV Public channel:
NASA TV (Public Channel): https://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html#public.
YouTube Official Stream of NASA TV (Public Channel): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21X5lGlDOfg
and Media channel:
NASA TV (Media Channel): https://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html#media
YouTube Official Stream of NASA TV (Media Channel): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA9UZF-SZoQ

And SpaceX's own webcast. They might be combined with NASA -- not sure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjb9FdVdX5I

And of course Principal Integration Engineer John Insprucker will be doing the commentary for SpaceX.
We all hope for a Norminal launch!


* While grabbing those links I found that the weather is really looking bad for tomorrow. Still maybe, but more likely Saturday or later if things don't clear up.

 sad
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