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Author Topic: Any Prot Pally PvPers here?  (Read 22531 times)
Hawkbit
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Reply #35 on: December 14, 2010, 07:26:05 AM

In my average 232 gear from Wrath as Ret I was getting beaten on a bit in this xpac.  I've been unhappy with the addition of Inquisition into the rotation of Ret as it just feels like too much button mashing, so I specced into Protection yesterday.  I am a little worried about tanking for the first time, but as a solo player Prot blows Ret out of the water.  I can take on 3-4 mobs at once and end the fight at full health/mana.  As Ret, not so much even fighting one.

Good change, just need to get over my anxiety about tanking.
VainEldritch
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Reply #36 on: December 16, 2010, 02:01:50 AM

At 85 I have an average ilvl of 326 mix of blues/greens, with a couple of minor gems and the lesser of the rep shoulder enchants, putting me at 121k hp.  

A 3-holy power non-crit WoG is 12-13k.

Ahhh... ok thank you.

So the scaling of WoG 80-85 is tiny. But, it appears that while Health pools have increased substantially and cata gear has insane stamina stats, that damage has not really increased that much from 80-85 (got this from trade chat) - in which case the fights will be longer and WoG heals as compared to incoming damage will be roughly the same as 80, at least in terms of effective damage control rather than as  a flat percentage of health?

If so, it looks like Blizz are trying to make fights last longer - which suits Prot just fine.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2010, 02:03:26 AM by VainEldritch »

'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.
Merusk
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Reply #37 on: December 16, 2010, 03:59:39 AM

They are indeed trying to make the fights last longer, it was one of the things they'd said in the lead-up to Blizzcon.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Dren
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Reply #38 on: December 16, 2010, 01:08:28 PM

I'm a bit worried about dps casters in pvp.  My priest is leveling up to 85 as shadow and I'm finding my mana dropping really damned fast now.  That's even with starting with like 56k (he's level 84 now.)  If a melee can last through a casters mana pool, they'll have their way with them unbarred.

On the other hand, healing will have the same issues.  I haven't been pvp'ing since Cata release, but it will be interesting to see what has really changed.  All I know for sure is, it will change.

Back on topic, I do predict Prot Pally's will do just fine.  Survive the initial spike damage and cc and you can wear everyone down eventually.  With Res items and cd's that shouldn't be a problem.
Fordel
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Reply #39 on: December 16, 2010, 02:32:32 PM

Prot's issue at 85 is being kited to death.


Caster/Healer issues at 85 is not being able to actually CAST spells and going OOM pretty much always and forever. Being a healer is particularly rough as you are beyond helpless now. Everyone DOES live longer admittedly, but there is no way to actually recover once your brought down a bit either.

What's happening is the DPS train is just getting longer on a target, while the healing just cannot keep up and/or is running totally OOM in 10 seconds.




Note: None of this applies to Frost Mages, they are as 'wonderful' as ever in PvP.  Ohhhhh, I see.



and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
VainEldritch
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Reply #40 on: December 17, 2010, 04:43:53 AM

Prot's issue at 85 is being kited to death.

Well, thus far I've sunk one point into Persuit of Justice (PoJ) for an 8% run speed boost - the second point will give me +15% run speed. Together with Seal of Justice I should be able to close the gap on runners - especially with the increased range of improved Judgements. Unfortunately this will only work if you can melee the bugger to proc the seal - it wont helpvs a mage free casting on you from that hill over thar... neither will it help vs anyone familiar with CD on HoF.

Still, with the 125k health pool he'll have to cast on me a while before I drop so maybe Eye for an Eyewill be more of a discouragment in a BG scenario...


'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.
Shrike
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Reply #41 on: December 17, 2010, 09:33:20 AM

Prot's issue at 85 is being kited to death.


This has always been an issue for protection. You need full PoJ and to use SoJ in PvP. Also, your main means of dealing with ranged is glyphed Avenger Shield and engineering toys. The latter is often an extremely nasty surprise to magelings and the like. I killed more than a few when they brought icelance to a pyrorocket party. The class that actually gave me the most trouble was warlocks. I had several rather memorable standoffs with them. They couldn't kill me (too many hps and EfaE), and I couldn't kill them (fears and the like).

The best way to deal with this is to bring friends. I normally ran with a DK and deathgrip was nice to have on voice command. Normally, most hordies assumed I was a holy paladin and swarmed me straight off. Most died before they discovered their fatal error in the victim selection process. Whenever I got snowed under I'd just tell my DK friend to kill so-and-so first (usually some damned stun-happy rogue). When the stuns wore off, we'd just mop them up.
Dren
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Reply #42 on: December 17, 2010, 09:55:58 AM

Stuns are the other problem.  Past your bubble and a trinket, you are fodder for a couple rogues trading off stuns.
Ragnoros
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Reply #43 on: December 17, 2010, 04:14:29 PM

Stuns are the other problem.  Past your bubble and a trinket, you are fodder for a couple rogues trading off stuns.

What class isn't fodder when jumped by two stun-locking rogues?

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Sheepherder
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Reply #44 on: December 17, 2010, 06:06:47 PM

Mages escape stuns pretty handily.
Dren
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Reply #45 on: December 20, 2010, 09:56:10 AM

I PvP with all the classes.  Yes, while 2 stunlock rogues is bad for all of them, I've found my paladin has the worst time in general.

The least?  Mages to escape and resto druids to survive.

Otherwise, yeah, it sucks.
 
Fordel
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Reply #46 on: December 20, 2010, 02:49:01 PM

No, there are still many more class/specs that have a harder time then paladins in that scenario.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Dren
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Reply #47 on: December 21, 2010, 09:13:00 AM

No, there are still many more class/specs that have a harder time then paladins in that scenario.

I wrote my experience, not everyone else's.  I'm glad you have everyone's experience well in hand to speak for them.
Simond
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Reply #48 on: December 26, 2010, 05:07:47 AM

Stuns are the other problem.  Past your bubble and a trinket, you are fodder for a couple rogues trading off stuns.

What class isn't fodder when jumped by two stun-locking rogues?
Blood-spec DKs can be, depending on cooldowns (trinket the second stun away, Icebound Fort, death strike, thank rogues for giving you a 30K damage shield, watch a good three-quarters of them stand in shock when they realise you're not dead). But yeah.

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Furiously
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Reply #49 on: December 27, 2010, 01:22:51 AM

Frost mages are who I despise right now.

VainEldritch
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Reply #50 on: December 28, 2010, 07:25:24 AM

Been doing 85 PvP as Prot these past few days new (that and getting my JC up for those lovely Chimera's Eye resil gems  awesome, for real ) and I can safely say that burst is no longer there and I'm entirely dependent on 3-Holy Point SotR with the 100% Judgment crit to pose any kind of threat - and if they have any sort of healing I can forget killing them any time this week.

I do not have the Vengeful Glad weapon yet so my dps is not BiS - and I'm not sure I'll take this Prot into Arenas to get one. I can kill any melee class 1 v 1, even Freals are "doable". Casters who know their stuff are very hard to kill - Warlocks are doable but it's an epic fight and can go either way. Frost Mage? Forget it... root-root-pet root-stun-slow-iceblock-root-root-slow... you get the picture.

I'm basically good at killing melee, and I can be a real PITA for casters. I spent most BG's rooted or feared with no control of my character.

Being rather irritated yesterday after spending three BG's totally locked out or ignored by players with healers who know I can't kill them, I rolled a warrior to level 10, jumped in WSG and had a blast - only cc came from a Frost Mage nova and I killed the mage twice after I got free of the root, and a rogue's sap. The Rogue was level 14 and it was a good fight (which I won with 1% health  ACK! ).

I may continue with the pally to get a full PvP armor set - but this will simply further polarize me into the corner "hard to kill but can't kill anything". Most of the BG kills I get these days are from HoW on some poor sap fighting over there... +1 for me.

Sorry to end this on a downer, but I guess the Prot just pays the price for all those 100%, 50%, 20%, 10% damage reduction CD's.

'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.
Shrike
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Reply #51 on: December 28, 2010, 09:36:47 AM

This whole expansion is pretty much heading down the TBCv2.0 road, and I'm not surprised to see protection pallies along for that ride. It was fun while it lasted.

On the other hand, bracket warriors are a hoot, aren't they? Mine is still sitting at 58 and might hit the 'Basin this coming weekend. I think it's AB weekend. Well, whenever AB weekend rolls around.
Sheepherder
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Reply #52 on: December 29, 2010, 12:07:24 AM

My account is not subbed at the moment, otherwise I'd be more certain in my talk about warriors.  But they have consistently gotten pretty fucking ugly mechanically nearing endgame due to stance restrictions, stance swap penalties, shield requirements for some pretty key moves, lack of ease-of-use fixes, and generally extremely high gear requirement.  I would wholeheartedly agree that level 20-ish is fan-fucking-tastic fun currently, but I'm not sure Blizzard has fixed the player vs. kludge yet.  So if shit starts going sour, shelve the character rather than doubling down in the hopes that it will get better, because I always end up grinding my warrior to cap and then getting pissed at myself for doing something that fucking stupid.

That being said, new tactical mastery and ability queue are promising.
VainEldritch
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Reply #53 on: December 29, 2010, 02:28:44 AM


Well, whenever AB weekend rolls around.

AB is my favourite BG right now...it can be hilariously "Benny Hill Music Time" when Alli holds 3-4 bases and the Horde start zerging around with us re-zerging the bases they left behind.

 awesome, for real

Anyway I decided to stick with my Prot to the bitter end. Alli actually got itself organised last night in IoC (gunship on gates, paratrooper in, seaform gate, kill boss, fast win) and then won Twin Peaks 3-0. I felt a bit better... though I really feel the lack ofProt damage now after going at it for close on 5 minutes none-stop with Blood DK - we both just stopped and went our separate ways.

At the end of the day I still have fun - and that's what keeps me subbing.

'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.
Azuredream
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Reply #54 on: December 29, 2010, 04:17:24 AM

Arms Warriors got 3 amazing new abilities in Cata, Throwdown, Heroic Leap, and Colossus Smash. They usually tear up the BGs. I'm not really an expert on them though.

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Shrike
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Reply #55 on: December 29, 2010, 09:05:32 AM

awesome, for real

 ...after going at it for close on 5 minutes none-stop with Blood DK - we both just stopped and went our separate ways.


Actually, I ran into this before 4.0 when still playing in the 79 bracket on my protection pally. Blood was never a joke and had a lot of staying power. I recall a fight I got into outside the horde fort with a combat rogue and a blood DK. That was a long fight. The rogue perished somewhere in the middle of it from all the collateral damage, but I eventually wore the DK down and took her out with HoW after all her damned cooldowns finally ran out. It was quite the knock-down, drag-out fight and easily went 4-5 minutes.
Sheepherder
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Reply #56 on: December 30, 2010, 12:09:51 AM

Arms Warriors got 3 amazing new abilities in Cata, Throwdown, Heroic Leap, and Colossus Smash. They usually tear up the BGs. I'm not really an expert on them though.

Throwdown is cool.  Heroic Leap apparently has even more broken pathing than Blink does.  Colossus Smash is just a damage button.  Managing all your buttons is problematic enough as Arms, my warrior really does not need three more.  Oh, and they kept all the RNG bullshit that fucked Arms as a DPS class in Wrath even worse than the simulators indicated.
Ingmar
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Reply #57 on: December 30, 2010, 12:57:07 AM

Colossus Smash leads to ridiculous burst in PVP.

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Sheepherder
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Reply #58 on: December 30, 2010, 01:28:09 AM

I can imagine.  I didn't say it was bad, because I really don't know where they all sit, but it completely fails to interest me.  Bigger numbers.  Yawn.
Fordel
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Reply #59 on: December 30, 2010, 01:30:17 AM

It's completely broken atm, its leading to two shots  awesome, for real

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
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