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Hawkbit
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Reply #1295 on: March 10, 2014, 11:46:38 AM

I think my copy of Here I Stand is still in the plastic wrap.  Which makes me sad.

I love reading rulebooks too much to leave anything in plastic wrap for long.

Luckily most games put .pdf versions of their manuals online.  This has saved me many times from making a bad purchase.  In contrast, many LGSs here have open copies to play and I've bought each game I've played in store. 

So what's up with Terra Mystica?  It looks amazingly fun and something my family would never play.  Is it like any other games?  Appears to be pseudo-worker placement-ish?
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Reply #1296 on: March 10, 2014, 11:56:10 AM

most of the GMT card-driven games, all just lie languishing on my shelves.

I think my copy of Here I Stand is still in the plastic wrap.  Which makes me sad.
It's _all_ about Twilight Struggle.

I can't be arsed to force people to learn Virgin Queen or Dominant Species though :( Much as I want to.
Goldenmean
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Reply #1297 on: March 10, 2014, 01:13:09 PM

So what's up with Terra Mystica?  It looks amazingly fun and something my family would never play.  Is it like any other games?  Appears to be pseudo-worker placement-ish?

One of my favorite games of all time. It's not really worker placement. There are a small set of actions that only one player can take in a particular turn, but for the most part, another player taking action x won't prevent you from taking action x. There are workers, but they're essentially just another currency that you spend.

I've seen a couple of people describe it as Settlers of Catan on crack, but I think that's unfair to Terra Mystica and is just a result of people being distracted by the "longest road" style victory point condition and the hex based map.

It's hard to compare to other games, because it does straddle a couple of different worlds. It's very much a melange of different systems, but I'd say at heart its more of an economy builder than anything else. You build settlements and upgrade them to different structures that provide you with different resources that allow you to take different actions that you can eventually parlay into victory points. Most of your decisions will be of the "Do I need resource x or resource y more?" form. "Is it worth me upgrading that trading post to a temple? I'll get less money next turn, which will make it harder to build more buildings, but I will be able to get a favor tile that could end up getting me more coins in the long run". "I get extra victory points for building my stronghold this turn, but that's resources I could spend to build more settlements and grow my economy", etc.

One of the main sources of endgame victory points is having the longest string of connected buildings, so there's also a sort of territory control aspect, as while there's no way to steal territory from another player, you can hedge people in with your buildings and limit their expansion.

One of the best aspects for me is that there are 14 different races that will strongly inform how you play the game. Some races are better at terraforming, so they have more options as to how to expand. Some races are better at economy. Some races have an affinity with water, so they can easily sneak a connection between seemingly distant settlements across the river, etc. etc.

Also, there's absolutely no in game randomness. There's a randomized setup (enough to make you unable to play the game from a spreadsheet), and you might select start player and races randomly, but once the initial board state is laid out, everything is public information and 100% deterministic.
lamaros
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Reply #1298 on: March 10, 2014, 01:35:40 PM

most of the GMT card-driven games, all just lie languishing on my shelves.

I think my copy of Here I Stand is still in the plastic wrap.  Which makes me sad.
It's _all_ about Twilight Struggle.

I can't be arsed to force people to learn Virgin Queen or Dominant Species though :( Much as I want to.

I really don't think DS is that great a game. The scoring is a little whack, it's far too long and endgame unbalanced. It's pretty ugly too. Especially the later editions.

Played Cosmic Encounter for the first time. Quite good. Unfortunately ruined a little by there being a guy in my gaming group who likes to complain about things being unfair when they take him by surprise, who then whines his way through the rest of the game. Did it with Rex too. I think he just can't handle player conflict very well/is too competitive for what his skill allows.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 01:39:36 PM by lamaros »
JWIV
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Reply #1299 on: March 10, 2014, 01:50:17 PM

most of the GMT card-driven games, all just lie languishing on my shelves.

I think my copy of Here I Stand is still in the plastic wrap.  Which makes me sad.
It's _all_ about Twilight Struggle.

I can't be arsed to force people to learn Virgin Queen or Dominant Species though :( Much as I want to.

I really don't think DS is that great a game. The scoring is a little whack, it's far too long and endgame unbalanced. It's pretty ugly too. Especially the later editions.

Played Cosmic Encounter for the first time. Quite good. Unfortunately ruined a little by there being a guy in my gaming group who likes to complain about things being unfair when they take him by surprise, who then whines his way through the rest of the game. Did it with Rex too. I think he just can't handle player conflict very well/is too competitive for what his skill allows.

Was he roleplaying The Sniveler?
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Reply #1300 on: March 10, 2014, 01:55:57 PM

most of the GMT card-driven games, all just lie languishing on my shelves.

I think my copy of Here I Stand is still in the plastic wrap.  Which makes me sad.
It's _all_ about Twilight Struggle.

I can't be arsed to force people to learn Virgin Queen or Dominant Species though :( Much as I want to.

I really don't think DS is that great a game. The scoring is a little whack, it's far too long and endgame unbalanced. It's pretty ugly too. Especially the later editions.

Played Cosmic Encounter for the first time. Quite good. Unfortunately ruined a little by there being a guy in my gaming group who likes to complain about things being unfair when they take him by surprise, who then whines his way through the rest of the game. Did it with Rex too. I think he just can't handle player conflict very well/is too competitive for what his skill allows.

Was he roleplaying The Sniveler?

 awesome, for real

Cosmic Encounter is a really terrible game for anyone who can't deal with direct conflict, that's for sure.

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Goldenmean
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Reply #1301 on: March 10, 2014, 01:56:59 PM

Played Cosmic Encounter for the first time. Quite good. Unfortunately ruined a little by there being a guy in my gaming group who likes to complain about things being unfair when they take him by surprise, who then whines his way through the rest of the game. Did it with Rex too. I think he just can't handle player conflict very well/is too competitive for what his skill allows.

Cosmic Encounter is *soooo* not the game to play if you have a problem with unfairness.

I assume this is the new FFG version? I've been stockpiling all of that based solely on my nostalgia for the old Eon/Avalon Hill versions I loved from childhood and high school respectively, but I've only gotten one game of it in, and had a player behave in much the same manner, which made the whole thing not nearly as much fun as I remembered.

I think there's a good possibility my tastes have evolved away from being a huge fan of it regardless of the bad player problem, but I'll continue to throw money as they print expansions, just for 1) Nostalgia 2) Something light that it's hard to take seriously if I'm ever in the right group/mood and 3) Respect for the gaming pedigree. Without Cosmic Encounter (and Nomic), we'd never have gotten trading card games.
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Reply #1302 on: March 10, 2014, 02:00:30 PM

Cosmic Encounter is far too simple and very not good. It's like they made a game to have as much conflict as possible and as little fun as possible.

I'm pretty sure I like conflict more than anyone here and that game was just ohmygodtheoppositeofgood.
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Reply #1303 on: March 10, 2014, 02:07:54 PM

Well, I don't think I'd ever play it sober.

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Goldenmean
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Reply #1304 on: March 10, 2014, 02:39:30 PM

Cosmic Encounter is far too simple and very not good. It's like they made a game to have as much conflict as possible and as little fun as possible.

It's a game from another era. Most games I recall from the 70s were all conflict all the time, and  I think it stands up better than the bulk of them, but yes, several aspects of it are laughable from a modern perspective. I sort of think that the FFG version might have gone too far towards trying to make a serious game out of it. Old school CE was just unapologetically goofy (especially if you were playing with moons), and in many ways wasn't a great game, but it was the first game that really took the idea of breaking your own rules to heart (though not in the metatextual way that Nomic would a decade later), and helped pave the way for Magic and all of the things that spun out of it.

I appreciate it in the sort of distant way I appreciate the Velvet Underground. I don't actually ever want to listen to The Velvet Underground, and wouldn't even say that I like their music, but they've been an influence on a great number of bands I do want to listen to, and I feel they deserve some amount of respect for that, however I might feel about them myself.
Goldenmean
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Reply #1305 on: March 10, 2014, 02:40:42 PM

Well, I don't think I'd ever play it sober.

Yeah, 100% this. It was fine in high school at 3 AM when we were all punchy and sleep depped, but I think I'd find it too brainless if I attempted to play it unimpaired at this point.
lamaros
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Reply #1306 on: March 10, 2014, 03:37:19 PM

Cosmic Encounter is far too simple and very not good. It's like they made a game to have as much conflict as possible and as little fun as possible.

I'm pretty sure I like conflict more than anyone here and that game was just ohmygodtheoppositeofgood.

It's a social game, not a strategy one. Don't play it with people who can't take a joke, or those who place their ego in being competitive. It's just a framework to have a good time. But yeah, more a game to play with family and mates and have a good time rather than as the centre-piece of a gaming night. The kind of thing you pull out when you're sitting around after dinner and someone says 'shall we play a game?'

I'll probably never call it a favourite, but I'll probably be in the mood to play it far more often than many euros. Playing Dominant Species twice was enough for me. Playing Agricola once was the same. They were both fun in a way, but in terms of re-playability I'd put Cosmic Encounter way ahead of them. CE is a social experience, those others are problems that were intriguing at first but increasingly boring.

Edit: Also I disagree with you assertion that you like conflict more than anyone here!
« Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 03:49:45 PM by lamaros »
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Reply #1307 on: March 10, 2014, 04:26:40 PM

Edit: Also I disagree with you assertion that you like conflict more than anyone here!

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Reply #1308 on: March 10, 2014, 08:06:48 PM

I'm pretty sure I like conflict more than anyone here and that game was just ohmygodtheoppositeofgood.

I've had so many games I've tried at the local shop lately that I start to like but then as the game goes on I realize it has almost no player interaction and I end up with a resounding "meh".  Why do people think it's a good idea to design games for multiple people where what anyone does barely matters to anyone else.  It's just a bunch of people playing solitaire then and the highest score wins.

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Reply #1309 on: March 10, 2014, 10:17:43 PM

I'm pretty sure I like conflict more than anyone here and that game was just ohmygodtheoppositeofgood.

I've had so many games I've tried at the local shop lately that I start to like but then as the game goes on I realize it has almost no player interaction and I end up with a resounding "meh".  Why do people think it's a good idea to design games for multiple people where what anyone does barely matters to anyone else.  It's just a bunch of people playing solitaire then and the highest score wins.

Because those guys also seem to be obsessive collectors who buy each and every single one even if the game isn't that great?

Related to all this: Looks like Tammany Hall is going towards the top of my 'buy next' list.
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Reply #1310 on: March 11, 2014, 12:33:26 AM

Tammany Hall is pretty fun. Played it a month or so ago. It's very straightforward and the person strongest at math is going to win assuming they're not a total pussy, but it was still a good time.
lamaros
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Reply #1311 on: March 11, 2014, 03:30:53 PM

Tammany Hall is pretty fun. Played it a month or so ago. It's very straightforward and the person strongest at math is going to win assuming they're not a total pussy, but it was still a good time.

Eh, I find the strongest person at math usually wins most games, unless there's a significant amount of randomness. And then, if that's calculable probability randomness then often those too.
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Reply #1312 on: March 12, 2014, 09:33:50 AM

I'm trying to figure out how to explain Terra Mystica to my wife and not-gamer friends in a way to justify the purchase because it looks amazing to me.
Goldenmean
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Reply #1313 on: March 12, 2014, 11:35:34 AM

I'm trying to figure out how to explain Terra Mystica to my wife and not-gamer friends in a way to justify the purchase because it looks amazing to me.

Good luck with that. It is emphatically not a gateway game, and most non-gamers are going to glaze over pretty hard when presented with a 20 page rulebook or an hours worth "How to play" monologue.

For what it's worth, my girlfriend regularly plays with me and enjoys it, and she's relatively new to board games. We had another non-gamer half of a couple who's had even less exposure to serious board games who had a bit of a meltdown about it though.
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Reply #1314 on: March 12, 2014, 12:52:54 PM

I find BGG usually has some useful tools for new players / introductions:

http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/97390/terra-mystica-beginners-guide

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lamaros
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Reply #1315 on: March 19, 2014, 03:37:10 PM

Anyway, like I said, it's got aspects I really liked, and I think it's fixable, or improves greatly once you're experienced with the card variety, I just have too many games to skill-up on one I found so frustrating on my first play. I'd be curious to hear your opinions once you've given it a play-through.

Played it for the first time last night, 5 players with everyone new to the game. The game went for about 2.5 hours, with the final scores being 20 (white), 16 (red), 10 (blue), 8 (black), 6 (green). I was red, having taken a -8 hit on exposure (went from last to first in the final three seasons), the white player was last on exposure.

White went in hard on canals and the church, picking up a couple of other points in the merchant quarter. I'd gone in hard with plebians in the canals, throwing some spare influence into the merchant quarter early that just got wasted, and stealing some points in the church with my spare money at the end (I was 5 gold short of whitewashing my exposure enough to drop to second). Blue had been over a few places on the map, from the athenaeum, church and canals, and picked up a few points in those three places, but scored mostly in the merchant quarters with their finals moves. Green and black had fought all game over the senate, with black making a bastard of a last move that cleared green out greatly. Green picked up a couple in the senate and athenaeum in the end, while black was just senate points.

Everyone enjoyed it, with all of them talking about playing it again soonish now they have a better idea of the game and some of the cards. This is the first time I've ever seen this happen in our group, so it was a pretty good time.

5 was good, but I'd be interested in going with 4, plus trying it as a full draft (we played the standard rules). It might give more of a chance to put some more thought and discussion in the turns.

For a game that went for 2.5 hours it didn't drag at all. The time went fast, but at the same time I was surprised how short it had gone, seeing how much we packed into it.

I have to say it really met my expectations, which were quite high.

Also I bought even more games. Chicago Express, Tammany Hall, Discworld, and A Study in Emerald.
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Reply #1316 on: March 20, 2014, 06:30:54 AM

I'm trying to figure out how to explain Terra Mystica to my wife and not-gamer friends in a way to justify the purchase because it looks amazing to me.

Good luck with that. It is emphatically not a gateway game, and most non-gamers are going to glaze over pretty hard when presented with a 20 page rulebook or an hours worth "How to play" monologue.

For what it's worth, my girlfriend regularly plays with me and enjoys it, and she's relatively new to board games. We had another non-gamer half of a couple who's had even less exposure to serious board games who had a bit of a meltdown about it though.

Currently its my groups favorite game. It is a tough one to explain, because it pretty much borrows mechanics from a dozen other games I've played. First look at the rules almost had me crying, yet oddly we found that the mechanics become really natural feeling quite quickly (assuming you've played some of this type of game). Predominantly though I'd say its a resource management game. I really like that every person playing gets different mechanics based on their race, and every game has randomized components and scoring triggers.

Do not play with significant others that will get mad when you screw them over by terraforming the only tile that will let them out of a corner, or allow them to connect their settlements.

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lamaros
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Reply #1317 on: March 20, 2014, 07:17:23 AM

Played Tammany Hall tonight. Good fun. Feels very thematic - but then area control games always tend to do that better than worker placement ones.

Would have hit the time on the box except one player took about then mins for each of his turns...
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Reply #1318 on: March 24, 2014, 04:33:39 PM

Is Great Zimbabwe worth more than $100?  It's nearly $200 on CSI (barely back in stock) and $160 on Amazon.  I boggle at this price.  Is the game play any good?
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Reply #1319 on: March 24, 2014, 04:34:46 PM

I uh, huh. I bought one of the first printing for I guess $110 shipped, Didn't know it had become a sort of "grail" thing. I haven't played it because it's tough to find people to play Splotter games with :\
Mazakiel
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Reply #1320 on: March 24, 2014, 07:28:01 PM

I've yet to play it either, unfortunately.  My luck on getting people to play stuff lately has been poor.  Every get together ends up never getting past Cards Against Humanity.  Which is fun, sure, but I'd like to break out something else some time. 

$150+ is pretty standard for any Splotter games that I've seen listed online though. 
lamaros
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Reply #1321 on: March 24, 2014, 09:30:43 PM

I've yet to play it either, unfortunately.  My luck on getting people to play stuff lately has been poor.  Every get together ends up never getting past Cards Against Humanity.  Which is fun, sure, but I'd like to break out something else some time. 

$150+ is pretty standard for any Splotter games that I've seen listed online though. 

Oh god, I'd kill myself. I'd rather play Apples to Apples 100 times than play CAH again.

It must be frustrating to have games you want to play sitting on the shelf. I've somehow managed to play every game I've bought this year (well, no Chicago Express yet, but I just got it Thursday). If only I could stop buying so many (not really) so I could get back and play them a few more times.
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Reply #1322 on: March 24, 2014, 10:00:32 PM

It does get pretty old.  We're hopefully moving soon, and that should put us closer to enough people to get regular game nights going, which will help.  But in general, I find it hard to get people to be adventurous and try something new.  I was trying the gateway game route, but CAH sorta derailed that for now. 

Not being able to play what I have has made me cut back quite a bit on acquiring new stuff, which helps my wallet at least. 
Soln
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Reply #1323 on: March 24, 2014, 10:40:13 PM

I don't mind the cost.  It's just I'd rather drop that on something definitively out of print like a copy of Mission Red Planet. Anyways, it's still on the list.


In other news, when the hell is the second printing of Caverns due?  It's like these companies are trying to go out of business.
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Reply #1324 on: March 24, 2014, 10:47:21 PM

I don't mind the cost.  It's just I'd rather drop that on something definitively out of print like a copy of Mission Red Planet. Anyways, it's still on the list.

Pretty sure Mission Red Planet is getting a reprint: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1136048/reprint-announced-by-bruno-cathala

;)

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Reply #1325 on: March 24, 2014, 11:04:00 PM

I don't mind the cost.  It's just I'd rather drop that on something definitively out of print like a copy of Mission Red Planet. Anyways, it's still on the list.


In other news, when the hell is the second printing of Caverns due?  It's like these companies are trying to go out of business.

While I may be wrong, I believe all their popular games never go out of print completely, it's just that the time between printings can stretch into a year or two, and tend to get snatched up pretty quick as soon as they show up. 
Soln
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Reply #1326 on: March 25, 2014, 07:55:46 PM

I don't mind the cost.  It's just I'd rather drop that on something definitively out of print like a copy of Mission Red Planet. Anyways, it's still on the list.

Pretty sure Mission Red Planet is getting a reprint: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1136048/reprint-announced-by-bruno-cathala

;)



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Reply #1327 on: March 26, 2014, 11:29:28 AM

After the successful experiment of a while back with Dominion (basic set), tomorrow I'll purchase a couple other boardgames (plus Dominion seaside, probably: I heard it increases player interaction a little more) to play with my girlfriend.

After some considerations, I settled for DungeonQuest (so I introduce her to a more typical fantasy theme, without going for more complex stuff like Lords of Waterdeep or Descent) and Seasons: regarding the latter, I watched tutorials and read other stuff about it, and I think it will be a game we'll both enjoy :) .

I'm also curious about "investigation" boardgames, hence I would like to ask: what's the best one between  Mansions of Madness and Letters from Whitechapel (erm, Arkham Horror is still a tad too much for her to digest, I think :P ) ? Neither of them? Any other suggestion?

Thanks :)

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Reply #1328 on: March 26, 2014, 12:20:41 PM

I'm also curious about "investigation" boardgames, hence I would like to ask: what's the best one between  Mansions of Madness and Letters from Whitechapel (erm, Arkham Horror is still a tad too much for her to digest, I think :P ) ? Neither of them? Any other suggestion?

Caveat: I haven't actually played Letters from Whitechapel, but I read the rulebook online a while back.

Apples and oranges between Mansions of Madness and Letters from Whitechapel, I'd say. Mansions of Madness is sort of like playing a really stripped down game of the Call of Cthulhu RPG. I suppose this will vary by playgroup, but it didn't really feel antagonistic between the GM player and the investigator players. Everyone's just telling the story.

Letters from Whitechapel is much more directly antagonistic. It's another variant of the old Scotland Yard or Fury of Dracula games. Jack is trying to kill women and escape. The investigators are trying to catch him. There's not as much of a story as there is in Mansions of Madness.

Really depends on what you're looking for. Do you want a story based light roleplaying experience? Go with Mansions. Do you want a deduction game? Go with Letters.

As far as Arkham Horror being a bit too much for your girlfriend though, I should point out that Mansions of Madness is pretty fiddly. The rulebook is two pages longer than Arkham Horror's. If you really want the Cthulhu vibe, Eldritch Horror is a recent reimagining and streamlining of Arkham Horror. It's simpler than both Arkham and Mansions, but still isn't what I'd consider a gateway game.
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Reply #1329 on: March 26, 2014, 12:23:50 PM

5 was good, but I'd be interested in going with 4, plus trying it as a full draft (we played the standard rules). It might give more of a chance to put some more thought and discussion in the turns.

For a game that went for 2.5 hours it didn't drag at all. The time went fast, but at the same time I was surprised how short it had gone, seeing how much we packed into it.

I have to say it really met my expectations, which were quite high.

I think I am envious of your gaming group's focus. This was a total death march for us with max players.

Anyway, I'm glad you ended up liking it. Maybe I'll try to give it another shot with 3 or 4 people and none of the really horrible analysis paralysis types and see if my opinion of it changes.
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