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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  General Discussion  |  Topic: Bench warrants, and how an Italian citizen got in trouble in the USA. 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Bench warrants, and how an Italian citizen got in trouble in the USA.  (Read 165731 times)
Zaljerem
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Reply #35 on: October 22, 2010, 11:07:44 PM

Michigan had a 'cussing law' up until 2002....  Beautiful state, but christ it's about as narrowminded as I've seen.

 Heartbreak  

We have our share of that. Most states do. Way to generalize. I suppose I could say everyone from the South is a hardcore Christian but that would be nonsense too.

We've got the fresh water, raw materials, beautiful scenery, lakes, herds of delicious deer, excellent cannabis, quality microbrews, cereal, fish, wood, Vernor's Ginger Ale, Faygo, Halo Burger, Big John's Steak and Onion, an awesome Detroit techno scene, all four seasons, and we're not Ohio.

What more do you want from us?!?!?!  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 11:09:19 PM by Zaljerem »

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Hawkbit
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Like a Klansman in the ghetto.


Reply #36 on: October 22, 2010, 11:57:10 PM

...and we're not Ohio.

What more do you want from us?!?!?!  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?


But that's your biggest problem!  j/k - I grew up in Toledo... so I was half Michigander anyways.  You got Detroit, we've got Cleveland. 
Lantyssa
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Reply #37 on: October 23, 2010, 08:21:28 AM

We have our share of that. Most states do. Way to generalize. I suppose I could say everyone from the South is a hardcore Christian but that would be nonsense too.
My friends from Michigan have unpleasant things to say about most of the populace.  It's why they don't live there. Grin

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
MuffinMan
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Reply #38 on: October 23, 2010, 10:35:05 AM

Vernor's Ginger Ale

Not to derail Falconeer's thread any further but, as a Michigander, fuck Vernor's. Seriously. That shit is vile.

I'm very mysterious when I'm inside you.
Pennilenko
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Reply #39 on: October 23, 2010, 10:37:10 AM

Vernor's Ginger Ale

Not to derail Falconeer's thread any further but, as a Michigander, fuck Vernor's. Seriously. That shit is vile.

You are broken. Vernor's is awesome.

"See?  All of you are unique.  And special.  Like fucking snowflakes."  -- Signe
Merusk
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Reply #40 on: October 23, 2010, 11:48:35 AM

...and we're not Ohio.

What more do you want from us?!?!?!  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?


But that's your biggest problem!  j/k - I grew up in Toledo... so I was half Michigander anyways.  You got Detroit, we've got Cleveland.  Cincinnati

Really, this is what you meant to say.

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Jherad
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Reply #41 on: October 23, 2010, 12:15:05 PM

So. About those pictures...  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
UnSub
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Reply #42 on: October 23, 2010, 12:16:20 PM

I'm emo enough to feel better by sharing with a bunch of secretly caring cynical bastards. So thank you, f13.

You had us at "boobs".

Slayerik
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Reply #43 on: October 27, 2010, 02:21:22 PM

I suppose that also holds for smoking cannabis?   Sad Panda

In Ann Arbor, they pretty much don't care. they host the Hash Bash annually, and it's some minor fine if you are caught with a reasonable amount.

"I have more qualifications than Jesus and earn more than this whole board put together.  My ego is huge and my modesty non-existant." -Ironwood
Slayerik
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Reply #44 on: October 27, 2010, 02:25:21 PM

We have our share of that. Most states do. Way to generalize. I suppose I could say everyone from the South is a hardcore Christian but that would be nonsense too.
My friends from Michigan have unpleasant things to say about most of the populace.  It's why they don't live there. Grin

Not sure how I remember this, but didn't you say your friends were from the thumb area? I imagine the populace is shit there...but I'll never know cause why the hell would I want to live there! ;)

"I have more qualifications than Jesus and earn more than this whole board put together.  My ego is huge and my modesty non-existant." -Ironwood
Falconeer
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Reply #45 on: October 31, 2010, 07:19:16 PM

Small update:

I called the Ann Arbor courthouse and they said they sent me a letter to be in court October 12th. I said I never received anything. They said they sent it to my Ann Arbor address, which is the address of my friend I was staying at when they busted us, but friend didn't receive hers either! She showed up in court only because the other friend received it and told her about it. Neither of them thought it could be about me too so they forgot to mention it. Let's... not comment about this. ............

Still, I told the courthouse they have been dumb to send it to Ann Arbor since I was leaving the country and I told this to the cops and they had my Itlian address too, and they said they didn't get the mail back, so that's PROOF that I got it. How does it make any sense? What if the mailman just ate it? Shouldn't this kind of mail require a signature to be delivered? It's not a fucking postcard, it requires a signature here to be delivered, or it goes back to the sender. How can a courthouse be run so randomly?

Engels
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Reply #46 on: October 31, 2010, 10:07:21 PM

Chasing down a polyamorous pansexual genderqueer is serious business. I'm writing my congressman tonight!

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Reply #47 on: November 01, 2010, 03:49:56 AM

Still, I told the courthouse they have been dumb to send it to Ann Arbor since I was leaving the country and I told this to the cops and they had my Itlian address too, and they said they didn't get the mail back, so that's PROOF that I got it. How does it make any sense? What if the mailman just ate it? Shouldn't this kind of mail require a signature to be delivered? It's not a fucking postcard, it requires a signature here to be delivered, or it goes back to the sender. How can a courthouse be run so randomly?

Not sure if it applies in the US, but there is a thing called the postal acceptance rule: if it is in the post, you've assumed to have received it nigh-on immediately. It's to avoid the "I never received this" excuse that would be / is thrown up by everyone ever sent a legal letter / fine.

That it wasn't sent back indicates that someone at least accepted the mail, even if they just threw it straight into the bin.

tgr
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Reply #48 on: November 01, 2010, 04:31:07 AM

It's like that in Norway as well, but I'd consider it a pretty dick move to send it non-recommended. At the very least there should be some form of actual verification that it has been received, and by who.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
Falconeer
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Reply #49 on: November 01, 2010, 10:11:27 AM

It's like that in Norway as well, but I'd consider it a pretty dick move to send it non-recommended. At the very least there should be some form of actual verification that it has been received, and by who.

Exactly!
The way UnSub puts it means that if for any reason the mailman/mailwoman or someone in the building wants to fuck with you they just can. In Italy, a place I would never use as a good example for anything, you have to SIGN to get that kind of mail. If no one signs for it, it goes back to the sender. This way, if the letter gets delivered they at least know _who_ accepted it. No need to specify that if you refuse to sign for it... the judge is not gonna take it very well.

Quote
called the postal acceptance rule: if it is in the post, you've assumed to have received it nigh-on immediately

How flawed is this?

KallDrexx
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Reply #50 on: November 01, 2010, 10:20:13 AM

But then you can just refuse to sign it if you know a legal document (such as a summons) is coming, or you can sign under a certain name and say "someone else was there and didn't give it to me" or a whole bunch of other ways someone can con the system into making it seem like they didn't get something they are intentionally trying to avoid. 

Thus why there was an article about a summons being given over facebook and courts agreeing that it was acceptable and counted as received.   
Falconeer
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Reply #51 on: November 01, 2010, 10:28:26 AM

But then you can just refuse to sign it if you know a legal document (such as a summons) is coming, or you can sign under a certain name and say "someone else was there and didn't give it to me" or a whole bunch of other ways someone can con the system into making it seem like they didn't get something they are intentionally trying to avoid. 

Thus why there was an article about a summons being given over facebook and courts agreeing that it was acceptable and counted as received.   

The possibility of a con transformed the whole system.. in a con!
I've been conned here, as there's a warrant to my name because some idiot played paper planes with my summon.

Morat20
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Reply #52 on: November 01, 2010, 10:53:20 AM

Not sure if it applies in the US, but there is a thing called the postal acceptance rule: if it is in the post, you've assumed to have received it nigh-on immediately. It's to avoid the "I never received this" excuse that would be / is thrown up by everyone ever sent a legal letter / fine.

That it wasn't sent back indicates that someone at least accepted the mail, even if they just threw it straight into the bin.
I would think that the courts would send it registered mail (IE: postal service offers proof that it was shoved into the right mailbox) to your legal address on file.

Your embassy should be able to straighten it out, insofar as the courts seem to be rather obviously wrong in insisting a foreign citizen has a US address to deliver a court summons to. If nothing else, they could have it delivered to your consulate or whatever. But sending it to a US address? Which isn't your legal residence, or even in the country you claim citizenship in? Yeah, all that needs is a nasty-gram from a lawyer to straighten out.

Honestly sounds like the clerk involved doesn't give a shit and doesn't plan to fix it because you're not American, which means really you aren't his problem and are unlikely to cause him or her any grief.
Soln
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Reply #53 on: November 01, 2010, 02:49:34 PM

But then you can just refuse to sign it if you know a legal document (such as a summons) is coming, or you can sign under a certain name and say "someone else was there and didn't give it to me" or a whole bunch of other ways someone can con the system into making it seem like they didn't get something they are intentionally trying to avoid. 

Thus why there was an article about a summons being given over facebook and courts agreeing that it was acceptable and counted as received.   

The possibility of a con transformed the whole system.. in a con!
I've been conned here, as there's a warrant to my name because some idiot played paper planes with my summon.


now you're sounding like Nerf
NowhereMan
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Reply #54 on: November 01, 2010, 02:51:23 PM

Quick! Alert the media! DRILLING AND MANLINESS

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tazelbain
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tazelbain


Reply #55 on: November 01, 2010, 03:18:58 PM

Con is short confidence.  The court or the police never had your confidence so you aren't be conned by them.  Your friends could possibly be conning you.  Being screwed by an incompetent bureaucracy doesn't pithy name as far as I know.

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Falconeer
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Reply #56 on: November 01, 2010, 03:46:37 PM

Quick! Alert the media! DRILLING AND MANLINESS

Ha. That was going to be my next line.  why so serious?

TripleDES
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Reply #57 on: November 01, 2010, 05:58:30 PM

Since when does confiscation of a camera depend whether you've permission to shoot somewhere or not? Since when can the police act on behalf of a private place (I take it that universities are private in the US) and take your shit? Is this the MO since 9/11 or what? If it was all about the children, why did they even ask?

EVE (inactive): Deakin Frost -- APB (fukken dead): Kayleigh (on Patriot).
Falconeer
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Reply #58 on: November 01, 2010, 06:04:54 PM

I really know nothing about these things. But apprently the Nichols Arboretum (the tree area where they busted us) is a "public space" that actually belongs to the University of Michigan. And the police was "University of Michigan" police. Which, from an Italian perspective, is crazy. But we used to be commies down here, so I am not surprised for my inability to understand the level of privatization of things in the US.

Nerf
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Reply #59 on: November 01, 2010, 06:19:02 PM

I really know nothing about these things. But apprently the Nichols Arboretum (the tree area where they busted us) is a "public space" that actually belongs to the University of Michigan. And the police was "University of Michigan" police. Which, from an Italian perspective, is crazy. But we used to be commies down here, so I am not surprised for my inability to understand the level of privatization of things in the US.

State universities are owned by the state - and the 'university of michigan' rent-a-cops were actually state police, which have more authoity than just about any other type of non-federal LEO.

Beyond that, private property or no, theres not much 'private' in the US.  If you are furiously masturbating on your front porch in full view of the neighbors and any passer-bys, expect a visit from the cops, as you have no expectation of privacy on an area readily visible from outside of your private property.
IainC
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Reply #60 on: November 01, 2010, 06:26:37 PM

Just a quick point about something further up the thread. The police don't care about the artistic nature of your work, they care about public nudity. It will make no difference to them whether you are Leni Riefenstahl or Larry Flynt, all they are going to be concerned about is did you have naked chicks in an area where teh childrunz could encounter you. Don't expect the 'it was art, officer' excuse to fly very far.

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rattran
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Reply #61 on: November 01, 2010, 06:40:36 PM

Go see a lawyer, you fucking tool.
Falconeer
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Reply #62 on: November 01, 2010, 06:48:06 PM

Don't expect the 'it was art, officer' excuse to fly very far.

Not even remotely. I mentioned that to only give you all "perspective". I doubt they will care, even though the court hearing for the two naked "models" is tomorrow, and they are totally gonna walk the artistic road to defend themselves, so I'll certainly have more info for you all.

NowhereMan
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Reply #63 on: November 01, 2010, 06:57:47 PM

It sounds like the court staff (shock!) really just care about getting the paperwork and such done. They have gone through their necessary legal hoops and will bone you for not going through yours because that's how it's done. They don't care that you living in another country makes this really fucking hard for you to do. So contact your local council/citizen's advice bureau or even an actual lawyer and find out if there's anyone specifically you should be dealing with and consider contacting the Italian embassy or consulate (if there's one local). If they'll argue for you then there's a good chance that having a nice big envelope with headed notepaper signed by someone important sounding from a foreign embassy will have more effect than your phone call. Obviously listen to some actual legal advice but I'd imagine the Italian embassy would be one of the best sources of info on US law and Italian citizens, even if it seems a bit weird to be contacting them from Italy.

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Nerf
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Reply #64 on: November 01, 2010, 06:58:23 PM

Don't expect the 'it was art, officer' excuse to fly very far.

Not even remotely. I mentioned that to only give you all "perspective". I doubt they will care, even though the court hearing for the two naked "models" is tomorrow, and they are totally gonna walk the artistic road to defend themselves, so I'll certainly have more info for you all.


The art angle might get them out of any sort of public lewdness or pornography charges though - IANAL but I'd be willing to bet that if it were actual porn being shot, there would be felony charges and sex offender database entries being thrown about.
Samwise
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Reply #65 on: November 01, 2010, 07:02:48 PM

IIRC any sort of public nudity conviction is going to land them in a sex offender database anyway.

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Falconeer
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Reply #66 on: November 01, 2010, 07:06:20 PM

The prosecutor and the judge have the memory cards with all the photos shot that day. Not even the slightest inch of porn. Only girls, nakedness, trees and a river. Not even an inch of lewd.
I'm curious to see what will happen tomorrow. Yes, "sex offenders database" is what everyone is most concerned with at the moment.

Edit: I called the Italian embassy/consulate in Detroit. They don't give a shit about it (shock!), as I am not in the US at the moment so basically unreachable and untouchable by American justice.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 07:10:30 PM by Falconeer »

tgr
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Reply #67 on: November 01, 2010, 07:08:18 PM

You forget that this was taken in the country where exploding brains is fine, bu t even a hint of nipple is bad (...or so I keep being lead to believe). I wouldn't expect much rationality in this case.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
Lantyssa
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Reply #68 on: November 01, 2010, 07:37:31 PM

The prosecutor and the judge have the memory cards with all the photos shot that day. Not even the slightest inch of porn. Only girls, nakedness, trees and a river. Not even an inch of lewd.
I'm curious to see what will happen tomorrow. Yes, "sex offenders database" is what everyone is most concerned with at the moment.
Naked = PORN

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Reply #69 on: November 01, 2010, 07:48:44 PM

so - you have a lawyer showing up for you right? Right?

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