Cataclysm: Preparing For Patch 4.0.1

[Paelos]

So to make sure I'm not losing my mind. For guild reputation gains on dungeons and raids you have to have 80% of the group as guilded correct? Does this seem high to anyone else?

Or am I reading it wrong and don't understand how the system works. I obviously understand you can get rewards via questing as well.

[Soulflame]

fyi, Anzu doesn't need a druid to summon anymore.

Sethekk Halls has some nasty trash though...

Oooo.  If I did re-up, I'd probably start that grind going.  Along with the Baron mount.   

[Morfiend]

So to make sure I'm not losing my mind. For guild reputation gains on dungeons and raids you have to have 80% of the group as guilded correct? Does this seem high to anyone else?

This is correct. Or you could say 4 out of 5.

[Paelos]

So to make sure I'm not losing my mind. For guild reputation gains on dungeons and raids you have to have 80% of the group as guilded correct? Does this seem high to anyone else?

This is correct. Or you could say 4 out of 5.

The crux of it seems to be if the odd man out helps his guild at all. I'm not finding straight answers on that anywhere as of yet.

[Rasix]

So, I need to join an actual guild to actually participate in the whole guild leveling business?  My current guild at its peak could only field 4. 

Or I could recruit.  *shudder*

[Morat20]

I finally patched up and logged in.

Hunter pets are broken, in that I cannot summon the first pet on my list after dismissing it. All the others I can summon just fine.

I have NO FUCKING IDEA what's going on with my hunter. Most of my buttons are missing. My DPS looks weird. I'm not even sure what my shot rotation should be. I have 8 points of Mastery, and I don't know from where or what it means. My glyphs are freaky. I am confused. I no longer have aimed shot, but do have scatter shot.

I will have to go out into the woods and shoot innocent wildlife until I figure this shit out. On the bright side, I can dual spec for 100 once I figure out what the fuck I want to do.

[Simond]

I will have to go out into the woods and shoot innocent wildlife until I figure this shit out.

And in real life, too? 

That first pet thing is fixable, iirc. Try moving the pet from your "ready" stable (5 slots, callable) to your "kennelled" stable (lots of slots) and back again.

[Merusk]

I finally patched up and logged in.

Hunter pets are broken, in that I cannot summon the first pet on my list after dismissing it. All the others I can summon just fine.

I have NO FUCKING IDEA what's going on with my hunter. Most of my buttons are missing. My DPS looks weird. I'm not even sure what my shot rotation should be. I have 8 points of Mastery, and I don't know from where or what it means. My glyphs are freaky. I am confused. I no longer have aimed shot, but do have scatter shot.

I will have to go out into the woods and shoot innocent wildlife until I figure this shit out. On the bright side, I can dual spec for 100 once I figure out what the fuck I want to do.

1) The hunter pet thing is a bug.  Swap it into the stable master then replace it and you'll be able to summon from slot #1 again.

2) The way they revamped leveling and removed ranks (no more Aimed Shot R7) means some abilities aren't available until later if you weren't 80 yet.  If that's not the problem, then the ability was either removed, was a button because of your spec, or is now a passive feature of your class (no more need to cast True shot Aura!)

Aimed Shot is a marksman only feature now, not a baseline one. Widow's Shot now does the -healing that Aimed Shot used to do.  Yeah, scatter shot is a baseline skill now instead of requiring survival. yay.

3) Glyphs for the most part are easier once you know what you want to spec.  Across all my characters there's been very little room for debate about what Prime Glyps to use since most enhance spec-related skills.   Major Glyphs there might be one that you could swap out for another but they're pretty set as well.

[Ratman_tf]

That first pet thing is fixable, iirc. Try moving the pet from your "ready" stable (5 slots, callable) to your "kennelled" stable (lots of slots) and back again.

On my first alt, my pets worked fine. On my 2nd alt, I had to relearn most of my abilities at the trainer to get my pets back.

I might have had to do that on my 1st alt, visited the trainer, and then forgot about it.

[apocrypha]

So to make sure I'm not losing my mind. For guild reputation gains on dungeons and raids you have to have 80% of the group as guilded correct? Does this seem high to anyone else?

Or am I reading it wrong and don't understand how the system works. I obviously understand you can get rewards via questing as well.

I'm concerned about this too. My main guild has 6 people in it, if we can't get any of the guild levelling stuff that requires raiding we're gonna be royally pissed off.

[Merusk]

Yes it's 80%. They picked it because it works out evenly across all content.  4/5, 8/10, 12/15 and 20/25.

If you're in a guild small enough that's a problem, why are you concerned at all about achieves for the guild itself?  You can still level the guild up in Heroics so far as I know.

[Ironwood]

People who are complaining about guilds that are so small as not to have signed the original charter make me a confused man.

As to the 8 points in mastery, you get that as default.  You then add mastery points to make it better.  In my experience, not hugely worth it yet, though the Afflic lock one, strangely, IS.

[Malakili]

People who are complaining about guilds that are so small as not to have signed the original charter make me a confused man.

As to the 8 points in mastery, you get that as default.  You then add mastery points to make it better.  In my experience, not hugely worth it yet, though the Afflic lock one, strangely, IS.

I think there are a lot of people who are equally upset that you need 10 people to sign a charter.  In fact, that seems to be a fairly frequent trend I've seen among small family/friends guilds. 

[apocrypha]

Guild started larger, people left. One had a baby, one couple split up badly and we never saw either of them again, etc. We are a friends & family only guild. Not gonna go recruiting strangers.

Good to know that we can get guild XP in heroics, waiting to see how slow & grindy it'll be!

[Paelos]

I'm not worried about the guild not being able to advance because it's small. I'm worried about the runs in our guild alliance falling apart because people won't be able to get guild points when they do them, since we're not in the same guild.

It's bad.

[Morfiend]

As to the 8 points in mastery, you get that as default.  You then add mastery points to make it better.  In my experience, not hugely worth it yet, though the Afflic lock one, strangely, IS.

There are a few that are great, but at 80, most are pretty lackluster. Frost spec DK has a pretty amazing mastery, +% frost damage. While Unholy has a crap one, +% disease damage.

[Merusk]

I'm not worried about the guild not being able to advance because it's small. I'm worried about the runs in our guild alliance falling apart because people won't be able to get guild points when they do them, since we're not in the same guild.

It's bad.

You're going to have to merge or find more people.  Remember that not only will you not get guild XP, but you'll be locked-out from the bind-to-guild craft patterns, items, etc they said they were doing.

[Morfiend]

I know this will sound bad, but I wish they would crack down on the small guilds. You know <Naga Stole My Bike>, <We like sex>, <willroxursox>. Stuff like that with only 1 or 2 members that just use it as a personal slogan.

I was running around Org on my lowbie Warlock, and I got like 5 guild invites, just cause he was unguilded. I personally dont think it is every single persons right to have a guild tag.

Thats just how I feel.

[Merusk]

That's part of the intent behind the guild leveling stuff, actually.   One of the early interviews had the dev team mentioning that they wanted guilds "to matter" once more, since the new Zerg/ PUG model was breaking-down social ties.

[K9]

Holy priest mastery is actually pretty broken at the moment; with the ICC25 trinket you could hit 6 million HPS or something due to the mechanic.

Even when they fix it it should be pretty good because it procs off everything and ticks damn fast. The Disc mastery is uninteresting, but undoubtedly valuable. I haven't really played around with the mastery on the shaman.

[Nightblade]

I know this will sound bad, but I wish they would crack down on the small guilds. You know <Naga Stole My Bike>, <We like sex>, <willroxursox>. Stuff like that with only 1 or 2 members that just use it as a personal slogan.

I was running around Org on my lowbie Warlock, and I got like 5 guild invites, just cause he was unguilded. I personally dont think it is every single persons right to have a guild tag.

Thats just how I feel.

Seeing as how nobody is harmed by these tiny guilds, and the fact that this broken patch needed much more time in the oven before release; I would see set the likelihood of this happening at about the same as WoW going free to play.

Unkillable druids, Mages one shotting people, low level paladins critting for 1000k, dps specs tanking, tanking specs dpsing, hamburgers eatting people, people wearing shoes on their hands; It's looking more and more likely this patch was rushed out in order to meet cataclysm holiday release date.

[Soulflame]

Some of those tiny guilds exist so the person has their own personal guild bank.

[Morfiend]

Some of those tiny guilds exist so the person has their own personal guild bank.

I understand that. I just don't agree with it. I feel that a guild should be a guild. If Blizzard wanted everyone to have a bigger personal bank, they would have given them one.

I think it's just one of those things to me. Thats why I like the changes with guild leveling, and achievements and stuff. It makes them matter more.

[WoopeeTuralyon]

Some of those tiny guilds exist so the person has their own personal guild bank.

I understand that. I just don't agree with it. I feel that a guild should be a guild. If Blizzard wanted everyone to have a bigger personal bank, they would have given them one.

I think it's just one of those things to me. Thats why I like the changes with guild leveling, and achievements and stuff. It makes them matter more.

I do wish Blizzard would expand the personal bank a bit. My vanity items from past years have nearly filled it. I can't force myself to sell my old purples.

[Paelos]

That's part of the intent behind the guild leveling stuff, actually.   One of the early interviews had the dev team mentioning that they wanted guilds "to matter" once more, since the new Zerg/ PUG model was breaking-down social ties.

People made personal guilds because banks weren't big enough. Instead of making personal banks bigger, they just ignored it and let people abuse the guild bank system. Not enough people were getting involved in raiding content, so they offered smaller versions. Still, people weren't involved in enough raids, so they made them easier with harder challenges in the fights. There STILL weren't enough people involved in raids, so they made the raids have two totally separate modes so they could scale back the content even further. Then, people abused the easy epics by pugging the shit out of them.

Now, instead of addressing problems they created with duct tape fixes, they are just going to try to take away unintended behavior with another dumbass system that will have unintended results. You know what the endgame is on forcing people into guilds? Fucking uber-guilds, Hive guilds, and mass gatherings. That's not social connections.

[Azazel]

I know this will sound bad, but I wish they would crack down on the small guilds. You know <Naga Stole My Bike>, <We like sex>, <willroxursox>. Stuff like that with only 1 or 2 members that just use it as a personal slogan.

I was running around Org on my lowbie Warlock, and I got like 5 guild invites, just cause he was unguilded. I personally dont think it is every single persons right to have a guild tag.

Thats just how I feel.

It does sound bad. It (and your later post) make(s) you sound like a douchebag. Who gives a shit? Really? Crackdown? Like how? Forcibly disband the small friends and family guilds because they don't want to invite random dickheads in Org?

Besides, people with a personal slogan guild aren't the ones randomly trying to invite you. We used to have a small F&F guild. I've now got a personal guild between my wife and my lowbie alts and bank mules for the guildbank. Makes swapping shit around a lot simpler. Guilds don't matter in WoW because the fast-play and less cock-stabby game design compared to EQ makes other people less mandatory to get things done in the game. My "guild" is a huga amorphous mob of mostly-pleasant-enough random people that fit a simple criteria with overlords who are set into their own little uber-raiding-cliques and don't give much of a shit about the general membership. As shit and mostly-useless as it is, the players are by and large nice enough people as long as you have low-to-no expectations and still probably better than 90% of guilds in WoW. That they don't hold a candle to either of my long-term EQ guilds says more about WoW than it does the guilds themselves. Guild levelling and achievements can eat a dick, because I have fuckall connection to these people.

Things like another row of bank bags or a tabard tab would help dramatically, but the fact is that their game demands mule characters if you level, quest, tradeskill, and like to enjoy some of the cosmetic items they throw into the game. Never mind if you want to keep some of your old gear that you might be slightly attached to or whatever. They did it with pets and mounts, but with the amount of shit they've added since they became tabbed, what do you expect.

Anyway, if Blizzard didn't want us to have a personal bank, they'd have set up guilds to auto-disband when the members fell below 10 unique accounts. So this means they clearly condone it. 

[Rasix]

Some of those tiny guilds exist so the person has their own personal guild bank.

I understand that. I just don't agree with it. I feel that a guild should be a guild. If Blizzard wanted everyone to have a bigger personal bank, they would have given them one.

I think it's just one of those things to me. Thats why I like the changes with guild leveling, and achievements and stuff. It makes them matter more.

My guild is me, my best friend from college and his brother.  Nebu joined at one point and so did a guy (Muu)  I've been playing with since the start of TBC.  We all come and go at various points, so at times perhaps only one or two of us are subbed.  We hit 5 concurrently on once.  Now with my friend moving back east and Muu getting hacked and not coming back (he was close to being unemployed since his bank got sold), it's a rarity we'll even get 3 on at any time.  

There's a reason though, we go back to this guild.  We don't like random assholes who play WoW.  We don't raid with any regularity.  We don't even log on with any regularity.  The catch is, we don't care for shitty players (we're all quite good) or general internet brand immaturity, and casual guilds have that in heaps.  So ideally, we'd join a mature bunch of competent players that don't care if we raid or not.  That doesn't exist on our server. We'd probably be a pretty good fit for Ingmar's guild, but my friend's brother is a bit outspoken and hasn't found a guild (besides ours) that he won't ragequit within days of joining.

Fuck, we even have a normal MMO guild name: "Murk".  None of us have stupid names either.  We use our bank for fish.  

We're a fucking guild. Dick.

[Ratman_tf]

I've often thought that there should be a poor man's guild. Like a fellowship that runs from 2 to maybe 9 or 10 players. Give them a scaled down version of the things guilds have access to. It's nice to have a shared stash and a special chat channel for your online friends and family. Then you have the big, meaty guild system for the big groups that do the things that require a big membership, like raids.

[Rendakor]

Because people who play with friends and family don't deserve the nice things that raiders do, amirite? 

[Azazel]

Crack down on those assholes who don't play like I do or like I think everyone else should!

My wife and I would probably fit in with Ingmar's guild pretty well as well, but I prefer Proudmoore (The Aussie Shithole(tm)) since it's always got lots of people on (Aussies, and Kiwis and Americans, all round the clock) on when we play. I've mucked around on some "normal" servers and in AU primetime they are dead as shit.

[Nightblade]

I understand that. I just don't agree with it. I feel that a guild should be a guild. If Blizzard wanted everyone to have a bigger personal bank, they would have given them one.

I don't agree with ketchup on scrambled eggs. FUCK THAT SHIT, STOP DOING IT. WE NEED TO CRACK DOWN ON. 

[Hawkbit]

Yeah, we're in a bit of a bind.  I've done the big guild thing back in Vanilla/BC, but when WotLK launched I realized I simply didn't have the time for the drama and alll that.  So my dad and brother formed our own guild because we play off and on.  Now, with the required 4/5 to get guild advancement, we're stuck trying to decide if we should find a larger guild to get the perks or not. 

[Ratman_tf]

Because people who play with friends and family don't deserve the nice things that raiders do, amirite?  

They're all a bunch of retards anyway.

/serious

It's more a matter of need. Most people making the dinky guilds are doing it for a "witty" guild name, maybe a shared stash. Just give that to them.

[K9]

I'm in a nice medium-sized guild where I'd say the median age is around 24-26, we've got a solid core of long term members and we've managed to weed out the genuinely irritating and awful people and find some sort of internal balance, it's quite nice. From what I know of people in other guilds I'd say there are probably abour 5-6 similar guilds alliance-side on my server (active membership of around 30-40 or so), from what I read I think we're very similar to Ingmar's guild. So there are nice non-cock-stabby, non-dickish guilds around.

[DraconianOne]

I like the fact that people want random strangers to sign a guild charter just for a vanity guild name and extra bank storage and I will happily do so for them.

For a charge - 5g for the service and a 20g administration fee.