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Author Topic: Job thread  (Read 221061 times)
Selby
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Posts: 2854


Reply #3220 on: September 21, 2017, 08:20:01 AM

Anyway, yes, engineers need to put up or shut up, because frankly, America churns them the fuck out and the average engineer is completely interchangeable with the next average engineer.
Until you get into specialties, there's a lot of people with the job title of "engineer" that make me wonder how in the world they got the job. I already know how they keep it: management is too afraid to fire people.

But as far as I'm concerned I don't care to see some guy churn out a perfectly punctuated procedure on a white board or do thevenin equivalent circuits, but they better be able to at least explain some basic concepts and not stare blankly at the table or wall when I ask...
rattran
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Posts: 3801

Unreasonable


Reply #3221 on: September 21, 2017, 08:38:52 AM

Job related joke I heard talking to some old college friends.

What is the difference between and Actuary and an Accountant? An Actuary stares at your shoes while you talk to him.
Merusk
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Reply #3222 on: September 21, 2017, 09:50:14 AM

They made a point today that they routinely raise salaries to competitive area rates.  20% gets me to the top of that band.

My last company said this, too. They were full of shit when I checked with non-biased sources like Salary.com, Glassdoor, and the AIA's own annual salary survey. The HR director I spoke with wasn't happy when I pointed this out after the AIA started releasing the survey online for free each year.

It's in the company's interest to lie to you. It's in your interest to always think they're lying, because they usually are, either via ignorance or deliberate obfuscation.

Everyone here is exceptional though. I love all of you.

But I'd only hire about six of you.

It's cool. You're an OK guy but fuck ever working for you. :D

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
Rasix
Moderator
Posts: 14166

I am the harbinger of your doom!


Reply #3223 on: September 21, 2017, 12:12:26 PM

I love working in test.

Management: "Reproduce this flukey bug that people only seem to hit randomly and the developers have no idea on how you can increase your chances of success."

Me: "OK. It won't work and it'll take 100% of my available resources."

Management: "And get all the rest of the stuff done that we want you to do as well. There's some shit that no one's doing or no one wants to do. Plus they don't know how to do it."

Me: "Did you not just hear what I said? I'm going to be busy with the recreate."

Management: "Well, there's always the weekend."

Me:  Argh! Argh! Argh! Shaking fist

I really dislike crunchtime. I can't imagine how it is to work in game development.

-Rasix
Trippy
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Reply #3224 on: September 21, 2017, 01:42:40 PM

Does that manager have pointy hair?
Samwise
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Posts: 16736

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Reply #3225 on: September 21, 2017, 05:43:11 PM

I really dislike crunchtime. I can't imagine how it is to work in game development.

Every now and then I think going into game development could be fun for a bit, but I think I need to wait until I'm sufficiently financially cushioned that I won't have any qualms about leaving as soon as they inevitably start mistreating me.

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Morat20
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Posts: 17567


Reply #3226 on: September 21, 2017, 09:00:41 PM

My last company said this, too. They were full of shit when I checked with non-biased sources like Salary.com, Glassdoor, and the AIA's own annual salary survey. The HR director I spoke with wasn't happy when I pointed this out after the AIA started releasing the survey online for free each year.

It's in the company's interest to lie to you. It's in your interest to always think they're lying, because they usually are, either via ignorance or deliberate obfuscation.

Oh yeah, I know. I went in armed with math. (Seriously, this is an engineering department. Someone had whipped up a spreadsheet with plug-and-play benefit numbers to quantify exactly how much the benefits were worth so you could calculate your losses or gains for the major areas, and they happily spread it around. It was iteratively improved over the last two days by other coworkers. Bear in mind, people affected include managers and even some HR folks (although low level HR), not just grunts.

I basically asked for "Bare minimum make me whole -- I don't lose money, although money doesn't really capture all the value I'm losing here, but I am WAY overdue for a raise and bare minimum puts me at the bottom of the band for my qualifications, and you have plenty of performance data that says I'm not the bottom end."
Yegolev
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Reply #3227 on: September 22, 2017, 02:14:25 PM

Every now and then I think going into game development could be fun for a bit, but I think I need to wait until I'm sufficiently financially cushioned that I won't have any qualms about leaving as soon as they inevitably start mistreating me.

Kickstarter?

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Samwise
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Reply #3228 on: September 23, 2017, 03:10:50 PM

Every now and then I think going into game development could be fun for a bit, but I think I need to wait until I'm sufficiently financially cushioned that I won't have any qualms about leaving as soon as they inevitably start mistreating me.

Kickstarter?

I've contemplated this, but it sounds too much like actually running a business.  Most likely if I ever end up making any games it'll be self-funded and I'll just consider any actual revenue to be a fun bonus.

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
schild
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Reply #3229 on: September 23, 2017, 03:35:17 PM

I badly want to blow someone else's money on development of some kind.
Samwise
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Posts: 16736

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Reply #3230 on: September 23, 2017, 04:31:41 PM

I'll help with the development if you take care of milking the VCs.   awesome, for real

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Ironwood
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Posts: 26588


Reply #3231 on: September 24, 2017, 04:32:47 AM

That sounds wrong.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Samwise
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Posts: 16736

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Reply #3232 on: September 24, 2017, 06:47:14 PM


"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Reg
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Posts: 4567


Reply #3233 on: September 25, 2017, 02:39:47 PM

Milking the Viet Cong? Venture Capitalists?
Morat20
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Posts: 17567


Reply #3234 on: September 25, 2017, 07:11:46 PM

So, got my offer today.

It was very good. A bonus plus a very significant raise, well above what I asked for.  Like "half again as much". Given where it places me on the local salary band for my qualifications, I'm pretty darn happy.

In unrelated news, I suddenly feel the urge to work harder.
Nebu
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Posts: 17332


Reply #3235 on: September 25, 2017, 07:24:33 PM

So, got my offer today.

It was very good. A bonus plus a very significant raise, well above what I asked for.  Like "half again as much". Given where it places me on the local salary band for my qualifications, I'm pretty darn happy.

In unrelated news, I suddenly feel the urge to work harder.

That's amazing news.  Congrats!

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
schild
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Reply #3236 on: September 25, 2017, 08:10:36 PM

In unrelated news, I suddenly feel the urge to work harder.
You got what you deserve, working harder seems excessive.
Samwise
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Reply #3237 on: September 26, 2017, 09:19:46 AM

In unrelated news, I suddenly feel the urge to work harder.

For me that usually lasts about a week.   awesome, for real

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Brolan
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Reply #3238 on: September 26, 2017, 01:12:39 PM

Indeed.  And in a couple of months you will start to wonder if you actually got enough of a raise.
Morat20
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Reply #3239 on: September 27, 2017, 09:04:27 AM

F13, come here for the accurate cynicism.
rattran
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Posts: 3801

Unreasonable


Reply #3240 on: September 27, 2017, 10:48:30 AM

Normally my job is retail, manufacturing, a bit of logistics. This week my job involved learning the commercial building code for stairs in Mecklenburg County, NC. (which is fucked, and deviates from intl building codes in terrible ways) Then rush building said stairs in 2 days. I need a raise.
Samwise
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Reply #3241 on: September 27, 2017, 10:52:59 AM

Normally my job is retail, manufacturing, a bit of logistics. This week my job involved learning the commercial building code for stairs in Mecklenburg County, NC. (which is fucked, and deviates from intl building codes in terrible ways) Then rush building said stairs in 2 days. I need a raise.

I had a GC several years ago who built me stairs that were not code-compliant (just standard residential building code, no weird local stuff) and as a result did not have sufficient headroom for me to use them without hitting my head.  I had to draw him up an illustrated version of the relevant building code section and walk him through a Powerpoint of it before he agreed that me hitting my head every time I used my new stairs was not a good state of affairs.

What I'm saying is if you're able to read building code and understand and implement it, yes, you probably need a raise, because apparently this is a rare fucking skill.

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Yegolev
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2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST


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Reply #3242 on: September 27, 2017, 06:14:46 PM

Moreso if he meets his deadline and does not exceed his budget.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Khaldun
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Posts: 8643


Reply #3243 on: September 27, 2017, 07:47:37 PM

Maybe a side issue, maybe not, but honestly, the weird otherworldly abstraction of a lot of people I know that code for a living seems to be an issue sometimes--as if they are flummoxed that reality has certain kinds of visceral, material, physically fet limitations. This article in the Atlantic gets at this a bit: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/09/saving-the-world-from-code/540393/
Samwise
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Reply #3244 on: September 28, 2017, 12:45:33 AM

Moreso if he meets his deadline and does not exceed his budget.

Why not add "and vomits gold coins on command"?

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Bungee
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Reply #3245 on: September 28, 2017, 08:39:20 AM

Maybe a side issue, maybe not, but honestly, the weird otherworldly abstraction of a lot of people I know that code for a living seems to be an issue sometimes--as if they are flummoxed that reality has certain kinds of visceral, material, physically fet limitations. This article in the Atlantic gets at this a bit: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/09/saving-the-world-from-code/540393/

Kind of like circuit/chip designers that work with analog signals are way more creative in their problem solving than their colleagues working with digital signals.

Freedom is the raid target. -tazelbain
Yegolev
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Reply #3246 on: September 30, 2017, 02:09:05 PM

Moreso if he meets his deadline and does not exceed his budget.

Why not add "and vomits gold coins on command"?

We are talking about general contractors, right?  I could have added "knows how to miter joints" or "can drive a nail without denting the surface".

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Polysorbate80
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Reply #3247 on: October 08, 2017, 10:02:10 AM

The university I work for has been conducting a market compensation study for employees.  They surprised me by admitting that they're  underpaying me by $15,000--which I knew when I accepted the job, but I like what I do, don't want to move, and don't really need the money.

Now, that doesn't mean they're going to give me that money,  but they might sorta take it into consideration on future pay increases  swamp poop

I'm not the farthest behind; I've heard of one guy who's 30k behind where the market would put his salary.
Chimpy
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Reply #3248 on: October 08, 2017, 11:50:38 AM

The university I work for has been conducting a market compensation study for employees.  They surprised me by admitting that they're  underpaying me by $15,000--which I knew when I accepted the job, but I like what I do, don't want to move, and don't really need the money.

Now, that doesn't mean they're going to give me that money,  but they might sorta take it into consideration on future pay increases  swamp poop

I'm not the farthest behind; I've heard of one guy who's 30k behind where the market would put his salary.

But how do your university's benefits compare to the "market"? I pay 50% less a month for health insurance while being at 3x the salary I had at the last job I had private insurance at in 2010. And the coverage is about 5x better. A friend who still worked there had an outpatient gall bladder removal and paid $1300 out of pocket a couple years before I had mine removed in an emergency with a 5 day hospital stay with $275 out of pocket for me.

Money is important, but so is benefits. It would take probably 15k a year and being closer to the Rockies for it to be worth it for me to give up my 5 weeks of vacation and 4 weeks of sick time a year for me to think about a job in the private sector right now.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Samwise
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Reply #3249 on: October 08, 2017, 01:00:01 PM

Just hit my one year mark at my current gig, which I generally consider the minimum respectable length for a place to be on one's resume (also it's the point where I get the first chunk of the equity that was part of my initial package; if you last less than a year you get zilch as far as that goes).

It's put me into a headspace that I've never really been in before -- I was 100% loyal to my last company for a very long time and between that and being very risk-averse in terms of achieving my financial goals I never even thought about looking at other opportunities (until they got sold to the devil and I had to get out).  Up to this point I've just been anxious about proving my value and making it to that one year mark.  Now I've hit it, I'm in a pretty good spot as far as opportunities to grow and advance my career with this company, but I've also had a bunch of friends leave over the past couple of months (most of them seem like they kinda burned out and wanted to move to smaller companies where they'd have more control over their personal destinies).  The equity grant puts me in a comfortable spot financially, to where I could take a job making half as much as I do now and not compromise any of my long term goals (i.e. paying off the house). 

So I've got a sense of career freedom that I don't think I've ever had -- if an interesting opportunity came along I feel like I could take it and not feel stress about my life being derailed if it didn't pan out.  It's fuckin' weird.  My understanding is that this is the way that some people operate *all the time*.  How do you handle it?

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Polysorbate80
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Reply #3250 on: October 08, 2017, 01:22:46 PM


But how do your university's benefits compare to the "market"? I pay 50% less a month for health insurance while being at 3x the salary I had at the last job I had private insurance at in 2010. And the coverage is about 5x better. A friend who still worked there had an outpatient gall bladder removal and paid $1300 out of pocket a couple years before I had mine removed in an emergency with a 5 day hospital stay with $275 out of pocket for me.

Money is important, but so is benefits. It would take probably 15k a year and being closer to the Rockies for it to be worth it for me to give up my 5 weeks of vacation and 4 weeks of sick time a year for me to think about a job in the private sector right now.

Don't get me wrong, I don't care as much about the money as the validation.

Health insurance is a bit above average.  Pricing is comparable but they provide more coverage for things like substance abuse and mental health.  State pension plan is reasonable (although I'm not relying solely on that, I have other investments in place).  Vacation time is good for the area, but that's largely by virtue of staying in the system for 16 years. 

The salary push is driven mainly by two factors.  One is that there were several years of minimal or no salary increases across the university due to state budgets tankiing during the post-2001 recessions--except for administration, naturally.  The other is that employees are frequently lost to the nearby school across the state line which DOES pay market rates.  I don't jump ship because I don't want the extra commute, and it's a very different corporate culture over there.  My fellow employees and I may get shit on a bit, but we're a family being shat on together...
Viin
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Reply #3251 on: October 08, 2017, 01:59:40 PM

So I've got a sense of career freedom that I don't think I've ever had -- if an interesting opportunity came along I feel like I could take it and not feel stress about my life being derailed if it didn't pan out.  It's fuckin' weird.  My understanding is that this is the way that some people operate *all the time*.  How do you handle it?

I find that the more you switch employers the easier it gets. I've been employed by 5 employers over the last ~15 years (I was with my first "real" job for about 8 years and just started with my 5th employer). I've only been laid off once, and that was just recently (had a great summer!) .. and I found a job I like much more than that last one turned out to be. Generally, I've found most of these companies in this size range (100-300 employees) are in about the same state of "maturity", it's really just a question of: what's my role, can I succeed in this environment, do I like the perks, is the pay appropriate, etc.

- Viin
Strazos
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Reply #3252 on: October 09, 2017, 02:24:31 AM

I just don't know how you all who switch constantly get much of anything done if you're only around for about a year.

I switch every 2-3 years (or less at times), but at least our system takes that into account by design.

Fear the Backstab!
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lamaros
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Reply #3253 on: October 09, 2017, 02:49:24 AM

I just don't know how you all who switch constantly get much of anything done if you're only around for about a year.

I switch every 2-3 years (or less at times), but at least our system takes that into account by design.

Public service efficiency: we need at least three years to get anything done, why are you expecting so much?


Expect poison from the standing water.
schild
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Reply #3254 on: October 09, 2017, 08:09:06 AM

I just don't know how you all who switch constantly get much of anything done if you're only around for about a year.

I switch every 2-3 years (or less at times), but at least our system takes that into account by design.

People call it a gig culture. I've found that to be the wrong term among folks with any measure of skill. We're living in a mercenary economy.
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