Levelling Spec Advice

[Azazel]

Any buzz on them dropping the mount/flying mount/cold weather heirloom costs with Cata? I'd like to check before dropping all my savings on it.

I expect they'll do the same thing as they did with BC and lower the price and level of CWF. It won't happen for the first few months, though.   They've never touched the badge prices of the older gear, but that's because nobody uses it.  We have no previous clues to see if they'll do it for heirlooms.

Oh, I meant the Heirloom token for flying mounts that 80s can buy for their alts with money. Not heirloom weapons/armour/gear.

[Lantyssa]

Heh, I've never tanked in WoW. I did play a Shadowknight (and a damn good one) so I tanked and pulled plenty in EQ1, but that was 5 years ago, in an overall slower game. I'd prefer to get some gear via DPS path before starting.

For normal dungeons tanking isn't that hard.  Even I was able to do it and, other than newbie mistakes, I did decently enough.  It's only raiding and a couple of dungeons that it's a challenge.

My problem was I didn't enjoy it at all unless it was a guild group.  I felt too much pressure otherwise.

[Threash]

A friend of mine who's leveling a druid queues up as tank/dps/heal because of his dual spec and the split so far is around 90% tanking, 10% healing, not once dpsing.  I thought healers would be just as rare as tanks, that's just weird.

[Shrike]

Tanking can be pretty stressful. I kinda like it on my pally (less to worry about), but I can only take so much during a day. I don't raid tank. Haven't since vanilla and it seriously sucked then (fury warrior was a great gig in those days, if you could get it).

If you've got a good group, it can be a lot of fun. If you've got marginal dps, then it can be quite a bit of (relatively slow) fun, but if you've got a shitty healer, then it's just painful. Really painful. Hyperactive dps can really be a trial, too. I've had a few very well geared rogues and they're just miserable in an instance. I had a really well geared enhance shaman once and he made me kinda nervous, but at least I knew what he was capable of and didn't have to watch him too closely (I kinda feel for the groups that pull my enhance shaman on dailys, but I do them so rarely anymore that's it's a fleeting wistfulness, not real sympathy).

[Ingmar]

A friend of mine who's leveling a druid queues up as tank/dps/heal because of his dual spec and the split so far is around 90% tanking, 10% healing, not once dpsing.  I thought healers would be just as rare as tanks, that's just weird.

There's more demand for healers than there is for tanks in the raiding endgame, so it makes sense there would be more healers than tanks in general. A 10 person raid has 2 tanks and 2-3ish healers, a 25 has 3ish tanks and 6-7ish healers. Honestly that is probably the biggest issue with why there are relatively few tanks. You can't really fix it by just making endgame raiding take more tanks, either, you can't design every fight to need 6 tanks and make them actually interesting for all of those tanks. Dual spec helps a bit but then you run into the issue of having to gear people up in 2 specs at once, etc.

[Dren]

Healers have less of an item issue (on average) too.  I mean with a caster type (Druid, Shaman, Priest) you can have basically the same gear set with just a few differences to do healiing or damage.  For tanking, tanking sets are unique.  You can't use them for dps or healing.  My Pally, for instance, has a HUGE number of sets to try and cover all bases. My Druid, Shaman, and Priest, very little.  I just keep some "Hit" items to get my cap and the rest is pretty much the same (some trinket differences, etc.)

So, you have more people able to switch to healing in more situations than for Tanking.  That added to what others have said too.

[Sheepherder]

You can't really fix it by just making endgame raiding take more tanks, either, you can't design every fight to need 6 tanks and make them actually interesting for all of those tanks. Dual spec helps a bit but then you run into the issue of having to gear people up in 2 specs at once, etc.

Option 1: Tanks modified to share gear with plate DPS via conversion talents / tree bonuses.

Option 2: Proc tank enrages/vengeance with fight mechanics (See: Pain Spike, Meteor Slash, Blue Beam (Netherspite)).  Excess tanks sit up front as long as possible for massive DPS output.  Also keeps the M-DPS on their toes if they get splatted.

Option 3: Tanks outside of their tank stance/buff/form are made competitive DPS.

Option 4: Tank enrages/vengeance modified to proc off of other nearby players who also have vengeance (range 10).

[Sjofn]

Heh, I've never tanked in WoW. I did play a Shadowknight (and a damn good one) so I tanked and pulled plenty in EQ1, but that was 5 years ago, in an overall slower game. I'd prefer to get some gear via DPS path before starting.

Yeah exactly. I've not been tanking on my warrior or paladin because their gear is shit. I know HOW to tank on them, but I don't want to be the limiting factor for a PUG. I imagine that's the case for a lot of people.

[Sheepherder]

Tank gear for a 60.

[Fordel]

I had no idea WoWhead could even do that!

[Azazel]

62 Paladin, ret spec as per the previous advice.

From this page on Wowwiki, there doesn't seem to be a spell plate BP, even though there are spell plate shoulders?

Is that DPS/tank plate BP still decent for a Pally with no Int of SP on it? It seems fine for a DK, but I'd much rather get double-use from it...

http://www.wowwiki.com/Heirloom
http://www.wowwiki.com/Polished_Breastplate_of_Valor

[Shrike]

If you're ret specced, you don't want INT/SP. The Valor BoA piece is perfect for any dps plate class.

Now holy is another matter. There is some mail SP stuff, but no plate that I'm aware of.

[Azazel]

So that works for either Ret or Protection?

What about the shoulders?

[Sheepherder]

They're passable for both specs.  Retribution and protection have talents to gain spell power off of strength now, their primary stats are roughly similar to their warrior counterparts.

[Azazel]

aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh!

[Azazel]

MOAR advice please. It's been pretty easy so far to choose what to get. I just based it off the fact that my wife and I both have 1) clothies   2) DKs. Once that was taken care of, I got stuff for my rogue.

so I've now gotten:

Wintergrasp Shoulders:
http://www.wowwiki.com/Strengthened_Stockade_Pauldrons (str/sta - melee based)
http://www.wowwiki.com/Exquisite_Sunderseer_Mantle (cloth - only choice - no int!)
http://www.wowwiki.com/Exceptional_Stormshroud_Shoulders (rogue/feral leather)

Heroic Badge Chests:
http://www.wowwiki.com/Tattered_Dreadmist_Robe (only cloth choice)
http://www.wowwiki.com/Polished_Breastplate_of_Valor (only plate choice)
http://www.wowwiki.com/Stained_Shadowcraft_Tunic (rogue/feral leather)

Until I have, for example, ALL the chests and possibly some heirloom weapons, spending heroic badges on shoulders isn't something I'll entertain while there are free Stone Keepers Shards raining down and needing to be spent, so let's not even go there.

Since I've been playing my Pally, I spotted this thing. Now I'm ret specced, as per the advice earlier in the thread, and still rusty as shit, so I'd like to get advice on "is this actually an upgrade for a Pally like I think it should be? - or will it ever be? (or only for Holy?)"
http://www.wowwiki.com/Pristine_Lightforge_Spaulders (pally only, effectively)
Otherwise I'd probably go for the Spell Leather shoulders as an alt set for my Druid who is a level 20 mule.  

Beyond that, I dunno. I'll have another BP to have to buy soon. I guess I go for either Spell Leather or Hunter Mail.  Unless this thing is halfway useful for a Pally (compared to the Valor one above)
http://www.wowwiki.com/Mystical_Vest_of_Elements


Still, I figure this junk is still going to be a lot more potentially useful long-term than incrementally-better-than-I-have-now gear I'll still replace 2.5 levels into the expansion. I somewhat prefer to give the pally priority since the rogue/lock/priest/DK have their stuff now, and the Pally is now 65, while the Druid is a 20 mule and the Hunter is 42 or something but not played since vanilla. I was going to buy the WG 2-hander (double-duty for the Pally and DK) but then decided not to when Wowhead said that DKs can't runeforge it. I did get the WG Staff since it works for the Lock/Priest/Druid, so I thought triple-duty there worked out decently.

[Shrike]

Never saw those plate shoulders before. They're oriented to a holy paladin, so that might be why (just mentally blanked them out). If you're strictly ret or ret/prot dual specced, you do NOT want those shoulders. They're holy only. Stick with the BoA stockade or valor pieces.

Wish I had some screenies of my DK at the beginning, but I don't. The best I can do is my own human ret pally. She's primarily a bracket PvP character and I haven't played her in months, but this is what they look like in the 69 bracket: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Whisperwind&cn=Theodora . She's mean, no two ways about it.

She does good dps in dungeons, though she won't bother with those again until she's 72 or so. And I'd probably switch her to protection anyway. I have other BoA stuff for her (weapons, trinkets, armor), but as a human and an engineer, I don't see much need for them in PvP and there's no BoA shield, sadly. She does have access to a valor BoA chestpiece, but for her the BS piece is much better. I don't much care about the xp bonus. Arguably, you might be better off with the BoA axe, but the sword only cost shards and as a pally it doesn't much matter. As a DK, I wouldn't use BoAs at all, but it's not a big deal, since the runeforges prior to 80 really aren't all that, unless you're tanking--which I never did much of before 80.

Really, before Northrend, just run quest gear, blacksmithing gear (if you can find it), and buy "of the soldier/beast" when you see it. The "of the champion" stuff is great, but on WW it's ridiculously expensive in the AH (like a couple of hundred gold per piece). Once you hit Northrend, get a cobalt set and have at it. Replace with saronite as you can. Savage/tempered saronite will take you to 80 and beyond easily. You can probably have 2pc T9 waiting for you at 80 if you do your daily dungeon run everyday. Accumulated honor might even score you the 245 cloak for a dps set if you indulge in BGs some, or from turning in shards. Actually, for a fresh dps oriented 80, the PvP offpieces and jewelry are a very good deal if you get them with shards. My own DK went that route and it's worked out well for her.

[Ingmar]

Yeah unless you are a holy paladin, don't even think about touching int/sp plate. The stockade pauldrons are what you'll use.

[Azazel]

How soloable would UBRS be for a mid-geared 80 mage? I'm getting bored with strat..

[SurfD]

How soloable would UBRS be for a mid-geared 80 mage? I'm getting bored with strat..

Should be fairly doable.  Probably REALLY easy as frost. 

[Selby]

How soloable would UBRS be for a mid-geared 80 mage? I'm getting bored with strat..

Easily.  As I said before, my mage at 80 in Naxx-ish gear was able to solo all of the old-world dungeons without effort.

[Azazel]

Yeah, but my wife isn't wearing nexx gear. It's mostly khadgers with a few drops and a frost badge belt. So I wasn't sure. :)

[WoopeeTuralyon]

Naxx gear is only ilevel 200 or 213... mage T9 is much better. Frost gear is vastly better. I'd say you're good.

[Merusk]

Yeah, but my wife isn't wearing nexx gear. It's mostly khadgers with a few drops and a frost badge belt. So I wasn't sure. :)

To use raiding terms, Nax Gear is T7. Khadgar's is T9, frost badge gear is ICC/ T10.   You're good.

[Azazel]

Cool, I didn't know it'd mudflated that far :)

[Xanthippe]

Once you hit 80, you can get ilevel 219 gear from the new 5mans - Forge of Souls, Pit of Saron, Halls of Reflection - on normal mode.

This is the fastest way to gear up to something normal.

Then, these heroics drop ilevel 232 gear.

(That is, if you get to 80 before Cataclysm launches.)

[Azazel]

Thanks, though my main objectives at the moment are:

1) Finish my Triumph/Stonekeeres grind (just a few more items to go)
2) Try to do all the Northrend zones' quests with wife

3) When wife unavailable, powerlevel the alts towards 80