Minecraft - f13 Server is: chugging along... again (Read OP)

[Malakili]

What supposed ideals would you even be giving up selling a company that makes video games? 

[Venkman]

No, that profit number isn't lifetime, it's just 2013. You're missing all kinds of miscellaneous revenue from shit like toys and books etc.

Their gross revenue last year was 300 something million.

Ah screwed up. I meant 17mil not 27mil. Saw the number here but typed it wrong. Deciding to dig further, found this summary which includes some of the shit I missed and more correct numbers.

This sucks.

But as the thread has gone on to say, I don't blame him for cashing out. I'd take 1/4 of that to sell out.  

Someone last page said something about how MC makes bank on mods. How? I've never paid for one, nor seen anyone who charges for them. But do they, are they lucrative, and does Mojang get a cut? Also how much of their physical products are themselves vs licensees? Chop off a chunk of % to the app stores and Xbox of course. But even after all that, lots and lots of money.

Can agree with the MTX on X360 being ok, if that's the only option to move beyond vanilla.

[Torinak]

Principles have as little place in a business decision as what color eyes the buyer has.

I've worked for a company that gave up billions of dollars in potential short-term gains due to principles. I've worked with someone who turned down a 9-figure offer for his company because of principles regarding the would-be owner. I've also worked with people who did take 7-, 8-, and 9-figure buyouts and ended up severely regretting their decisions because of what happened to their creations.

Mojang isn't a company about to wither and die without a buyout. They're doing very well on their own, including paying significant bonuses to their employees. Notch has previously said that he doesn't think he needs more money, but if he wants to sell Mojang so he can throw another few hundred million on the pile, I hope it works out for him.

I know it's an un-American thing to say, but there can be things in life that are more important than money.

[Cyrrex]

Someone last page said something about how MC makes bank on mods. How? I've never paid for one, nor seen anyone who charges for them. But do they, are they lucrative, and does Mojang get a cut? Also how much of their physical products are themselves vs licensees? Chop off a chunk of % to the app stores and Xbox of course. But even after all that, lots and lots of money.

I said it, and either you didn't read it closely or you missed the point.  They make money off the mods indirectly because the mods are what are keeping this game alive.  The vanilla, core game and merchandise sales owe a great deal to those mods.

And to repeat, Microsoft will go out of their way to kill those mods.  Firstly, because the only stake they have in this is to monetize it, and they will never see profit in the core game, so they will be forced to try to take control over the mods.  And second, they will then be forced to eliminate many of those mods due to IP or copyright infringement.  Can't have a Pokemon, Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter mod out there, for example.  There is also no way in hell I am going to suddenly start shelling out cash for skins and texture packs (which I wonder if they can even make work on a console) that we have always gotten for absolutely free.  We might have 3 years ago.  But again, that's the whole problem...Microsoft is too late to this party.  And by the way, this game absolutely stinks on the console by comparison to the PC.

Whoever said that somebody else out there can just put a team together to recreate a Minecraft-like experience.....good fucking luck with that.  Many have already tried.  This was lightning in a bottle.  And anyone who tries to recreate it too closely will get their pants sued off.

[Jeff Kelly]

I know it's an un-American thing to say, but there can be things in life that are more important than money.

Notch strikes me as a person that was blindsided by the success of Minecraft. The way he acts it seems to me that he's happier just developing stuff by himself. Like Carmack who also never seemed to be that interested in actually running id Notch delegated a lot of day to day and boring stuff to others. Maybe he just wants to get rid of the responsibility and took the offer for that reason. I would have in his stead, not because of the money (by that time Notch is already quite rich anyway) but simply to get rid of the hassle and responsibility of running a company.

'He could just close shop' someone would probably suggest. That's different though, you are responsible for the people working there so firing might seem more excessive than selling the company.

[Jeff Kelly]

They'll also rename it 20 times.

In related news. Microsoft announced today that they'll rebrand Windows Phone by losing the 'phone' part and that Nokia branded phones will now use the brand name 'Lumia' instead.

[Yoru]

Notch's big public hissy fit over Oculus selling out is the thing that makes this funny.  If not for that I don't think anyone could fault him at all for taking his $2B and buying a small country with it.

Bit of a "the lady doth protest too much, methinks" there.

But yeah, were I faced with the choice between a huge whack of a $2b sale or dealing with whiny gamers day-in-day-out, I'd be buying estates in the south of France before you could say "sellout".

[Teleku]

I'm going to buck the trend and say this will probably be a good thing.   

[Xanthippe]

I found a couple of mega rubber trees. Shouldn't these not be in the game at all?

[Hutch]

I found a couple of mega rubber trees. Shouldn't these not be in the game at all?

Did you maybe mean to post this in the other minecraft thread ;)

[Ingmar]

And to repeat, Microsoft will go out of their way to kill those mods.  Firstly, because the only stake they have in this is to monetize it, and they will never see profit in the core game, so they will be forced to try to take control over the mods.  And second, they will then be forced to eliminate many of those mods due to IP or copyright infringement.  Can't have a Pokemon, Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter mod out there, for example.  There is also no way in hell I am going to suddenly start shelling out cash for skins and texture packs (which I wonder if they can even make work on a console) that we have always gotten for absolutely free.  We might have 3 years ago.  But again, that's the whole problem...Microsoft is too late to this party.  And by the way, this game absolutely stinks on the console by comparison to the PC.

Whoever said that somebody else out there can just put a team together to recreate a Minecraft-like experience.....good fucking luck with that.  Many have already tried.  This was lightning in a bottle.  And anyone who tries to recreate it too closely will get their pants sued off.

What you're missing is that Minecraft is *already monetized*.

www.toysrus.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=33807956&sr=1&origkw=minecraft

They bought are buying a hugely profitable company. They aren't going to have to go to extreme measures for a payoff. That's not saying they won't do crazy stuff, but it isn't like they're going to be under a huge amount of pressure to squeeze blood from a stone.

[Samwise]

What supposed ideals would you even be giving up selling a company that makes video games? 

Stupid ones.

[tazelbain]

I think I'd sell it just see if I could do it again.

[Yegolev]

There is also no way in hell I am going to suddenly start shelling out cash for skins and texture packs (which I wonder if they can even make work on a console) that we have always gotten for absolutely free.

There are a few of these available on XBL.  I assume PSN has some also.

I'm not suggesting you play Minecraft on a console in order to find out, but you might just ask any person under age 15.  It's a cube-shaped rabbit hole that you are apparently unaware of.

We are going to a eleven-year birthday party on Sunday and the gift will be a real-life Minecraft torch.  Everyone has already gone through the "foam Minecraft weapons" phase.  For next week's fifth-grade camping trip, all of my son's friends are asking his mom to make personalized Minecraft-themed luggage tags.  These kids have the game on Xbox, PC, and their moms' phones and they play all of these versions.  Don't ask me how they decide which one.

Minecraft is also one enormous reason that kids don't watch TV anymore; they instead watch Minecraft videos on Youtube.  I'll just pick one example with over three million subscribers.  Remember how you might go to school and talk about that episode of G.I. Joe?  Kids talk about the latest Stampy video instead.

Minecraft tee shirts and hoodies are sold in old-lady stores like Kohl's and JC Penny.  I figure any sort of indignation that Notch might have pretended to have in regard to cashing out of anything has long since disappeared.

[Merusk]

^^

This. All of it, yes.

My son was the coolest kid on the block when I got him the Diamond sword AND pickaxe off Amazon.

 These kids have the game on Xbox, PC, and their moms' phones and they play all of these versions.  Don't ask me how they decide which one.

It appears to be some arcane mental formula involving variables of, "what device is charged," "sis is on the computer," "I don't have any YouTube videos I want to watch," and "the Living Room TV is available for Power Rangers/ Ninja Turtles/ My Little Pony streaming."

[Fordel]

When we say Minecraft is virtual Lego, it's not just about the block building aspect. Minecraft isn't a video game, it's a toy. It's going to be around and popular for pretty much forever now. The only way to kill it would be to stop selling it and turning off the log in servers.

It's going to be (if it isn't already) as ubiquitous actual Lego, Barbie, Pokemon, Monopoly or that stupid paddle ball.

[Xanthippe]

I found a couple of mega rubber trees. Shouldn't these not be in the game at all?

Did you maybe mean to post this in the other minecraft thread ;)

Yes, yes I did. Sorry!

[Xanthippe]

When we say Minecraft is virtual Lego, it's not just about the block building aspect. Minecraft isn't a video game, it's a toy. It's going to be around and popular for pretty much forever now. The only way to kill it would be to stop selling it and turning off the log in servers.

It's going to be (if it isn't already) as ubiquitous actual Lego, Barbie, Pokemon, Monopoly or that stupid paddle ball.

Right. But people are worried (rightly so, I believe) that some of the legitimate ways they use the toy will be taken away. I hope Quinton's right and that people will simply find workarounds. I worry that copyright will be an issue though.

[Ingmar]

I'm not sure why Microsoft would be bound to enforce copyright on stuff like 3rd party PC skins if Mojang wasn't.

[Torinak]

I'm not sure why Microsoft would be bound to enforce copyright on stuff like 3rd party PC skins if Mojang wasn't.

Most big companies are risk-adverse enough to just shut down that kind of stuff rather than risk any legal issues down the line. Not to mention that unofficial 3rd party things could compete with their ability to sell official versions of whatever, thereby limiting future revenue.

[Count Nerfedalot]

So, I'm a little confused about this fear that MS will shut off the authentication servers and nobody will be able to do what now? I used to run a server on my home PC. Set it up with a whitelist and nobody not on that list could get in. Internet (or Mojang) goes down? Edit an ini file to turn off authentication, restart server, and everyone logs in again and off we go. Only difference is some remote chance (if internet is up) than some stranger somehow finds my open port AND knows one of the usernames I've whitelisted and logs in with it. I still have the java server jars, the java client jars, etc. (will have to check to make sure we get the server for this latest patch). If I played with mods, I'd have that code too, but I don't.

So what's changed? How can evil Micro$oft (they are evil btw, as well as the indirect enablers of my making a decent living) take away my ability to play this game I love (and paid like $24/copy for)?

[angry.bob]

So, I'm a little confused about this fear that MS will shut off the authentication servers and nobody will be able to do what now?

Yeah, it's not like there's not already cracked versions all over the internet. I know pirating sucks and all, but if a company shuts off the only way to use a product you bought I consider it a fair move.

[Count Nerfedalot]

um, everything I described was done with standard, vanilla, uncracked Minecraft. I'm not aware of anything that's eliminated those capabilities?

[Venkman]

You're right. For how MC currently exists. But then we're only able to play MC up until that point. After that, if MS shuts down modding and moves all authentication in house, then that alone would kill it for the PC users.

We could say "eh, so what if we don't get the latest update"?

Welp, the month prior to both 1.7.2 and 1.8, you'd have thought freakin' Christmas was coming to our neighborhood. The kids were theorycrafting all the shit they were going to build with the new Fill tool, what they'd do with bunnies, all the new materials. They sounded like us 13 years ago in the ramp up to DAoC. Didn't hurt I was egging them on though. Made them vote between keeping Forge/Dragonmount on our server, or getting bunnies and bringing the dragons back later. 

There will always be ways to get around whatever bootstrapping MS as a large mult-national publicly-traded corporately-responsible company needs to do that a small company with a dream and lightning in a bottle success would never need to care about*. But it won't continue as a transgenerational experience on the tips of everyone's tongue. It'll become some cool thing for a smaller audience until after a few years they shut it down for the money sink they turned it into.

* Does make me wonder though: any digital experience large enough is eventually going to get sued for some type of software patent. No matter the legitimacy, it's years and years of bullshit litigation. MC skated under the radar for awhile, but I'll bet the first thing that happens when this deal closes is a few no-name tech shops and some patent trolls come calling. For $2bn, Notch gets to avoid all that.

I said it, and either you didn't read it closely or you missed the point.  They make money off the mods indirectly because the mods are what are keeping this game alive.  The vanilla, core game and merchandise sales owe a great deal to those mods.

You missed where I earlier bucketed all that under "intangibles" (the financial kind). My question was whether Mojang makes direct money from the mods. They don't as far as I can tell. They make indirect money as it is part of the feedback loop for the brand.

It's like their licensed product. That is not significant top line revenue to Mojang. That goes to J!NX, Jazwares, etc. But I'm sure is a big chunk of their profit (bottom line). Those producst do as much to keep Minecraft top of mind at in the physical world as mods, Stampy, and all the other derivative works do in the digital.

Through all of this I wish MC had just bought into a piece of it. They don't need to run it all, and they can't possibly in the way it currently is successful.

[Torinak]

* Does make me wonder though: any digital experience large enough is eventually going to get sued for some type of software patent. No matter the legitimacy, it's years and years of bullshit litigation. MC skated under the radar for awhile, but I'll bet the first thing that happens when this deal closes is a few no-name tech shops and some patent trolls come calling. For $2bn, Notch gets to avoid all that.

It's already happened. In response to a patent troll suing over authentication on the Android version, Notch donated a quarter-million USD to the EFF's patent-reform efforts and vowed to fight the lawsuit instead of caving.

Microsoft has rather deeper pockets than Mojang, obviously, but they're also heavily invested in some of the more notorious patent trolls themselves.

[Torinak]

Reuters: Microsoft will unveil a $2.5 billion deal to buy [Mojang] on Monday.

The scary part about the article (and the related new chatter) is that the move is apparently so Microsoft can double down on its already-failed Windows mobile phone. If true, that doesn't bode well for Minecraft on any other platform, especially on the PC.

Of course, if all five Windows phone users pay $500M each for their version of Minecraft, Microsoft will at least break even. 

[Quinton]

Microsoft is in no hurry to leave PCs (trying desperately to somehow unify PC and Mobile with Win8 and beyond) and is seriously committed to consoles.

I also very much doubt they'd close the deal and yank all non-winmobile/win8/xbone minecraft versions (the negative pr would be insane).

Assuming this goes through, my money is on:
- the existing versions continue to work, but transition into maintenance mode (no major updates, small team) and after a couple years they stop devoting any resources to them.
- a new futureminecraft codebase (probably C# or at least C++ based, likely limited to microsoft platforms) initially replicates existing behavior, then extends (at a more rapid rate due to a large team being dumped on it)
- some kind of actual modding API in futureminecraft that's more manageable and organized to allow third parties to sell addons (with microsoft approval and microsoft getting a cut).

Its even possible they'd keep non-msft mobile and osx versions alive (wouldn't hold my breath for Linux or competing consoles though) to avoid losing the userbase longer term.  Given that they finally released Microsoft Office Mobile for Android, I think they've (post-Ballmer) acknowledged that cutting off revenue to their major products by insisting users use their tiny-fraction-of-the-market platform is not a big win.

[Jeff Kelly]

If they do that they show again why they have no clue regarding anything that is not Windows or Office.

Minecraft is popular because it's Minecraft and because it runs on anything with a CPU.

[amiable]

It's happening, for 2.5 billion.

https://mojang.com/2014/09/yes-were-being-bought-by-microsoft/

[Lakov_Sanite]

I wonder what a 2.5 billion square minecraft map looks like.

[Thrawn]

It's happening, for 2.5 billion.

https://mojang.com/2014/09/yes-were-being-bought-by-microsoft/

The entire page could have just said "Why did you sell Minecraft?" followed by "2.5 BILLION DOLLARS" and I would have been perfectly satisfied with it.

[Druzil]

It's happening, for 2.5 billion.

https://mojang.com/2014/09/yes-were-being-bought-by-microsoft/

Comment from Notch, not really anything surprising.  I guess Microsoft is in the card game arena with Scrolls now?  

https://twitter.com/notch/status/511508557200498688

[Rasix]

"I'm tapped out. I'm rich and don't want to deal with you people anymore. Peace."

Honestly, that was my take when this all started.  The golden goose is done (in more ways than one); might as well sell now while your value is ridiculously high.

[Yoru]

Given how toxic the Minecraft community is, I'm fairly surprised he stuck it out as long as he has.

[tazelbain]

Doesn't big + passionate = toxic these days. Just got too big to fit one person's shoulders.