Sucker Punch

[Chimpy]

It may have something to do with the term 'chick' when talking about female empowerment.

[Ingmar]

It may have something to do with the term 'chick' when talking about female empowerment.

That's what I took away from it.

[Slyfeind]

With every girl I talk to decisively calling this "a chick flick" I find it hard not to use the term myself. 

[Sjofn]

You didn't call the movie a chick flick, you called the women you know chicks. There's a difference. Although at least you didn't call them "girls!"

[Slyfeind]

"Girls..." I can only deduce the purpose of all y'alls responses is to confuse me now! 

[Bunk]

Is there really something wrong with "girls"? Especially if the age difference is appropriate. Most of the "girls" I work with are 15 years younger than me. Girls seems appropriate. If I say "ladies" its usually in one of those sterner, I am annoyed voices.

[Ingmar]

I try not to use it for adults, whatever the age difference. I'm sure I screw it up all the time, old habits die hard.

[Samwise]

I usually say "girls," mainly because I can't bring myself to say "gals."  "Women" and "ladies" both sound way too formal; I almost never call guys "men" or "gentlemen" for the same reason.

[Sjofn]

"Girls" is incredibly patronizing if you're refering to grown women, yes. Do you call the men in your department "boys" if you're 15 years older than them? I bet you don't.

Yeah, it's annoying that women do not have a one-syllable term like "guys," but "girls" are children.

[MuffinMan]

In before Politics.

[Slyfeind]

Is this really a forum where we are expected to be sensitive to proper gender terms, to the extent that "chick" is to be avoided? Because there are posts earlier in this thread that are FAR FAR MORE MISOGYNISTIC than me saying I refer to my female friends as "chicks".

Also, if this is the case, I expect to be able to start posting in the Katy Perry Is Hot thread how much it offends me. (Because it does. No shit.)

[Trippy]

Settle down girls.

[DraconianOne]

Is this really a forum where we are expected to be sensitive to proper gender terms, to the extent that "chick" is to be avoided?

For a moment I wondered if I was being too obtuse but at least Chimpy and Ingmar got exactly what I meant.

Sucker Punch is to female empowerment as Josef Fritzl is to wholesome family values.

[Mrbloodworth]

Settle down girls.

'at a boy.

[proudft]

Yeah, it's annoying that women do not have a one-syllable term like "guys," but "girls" are children.

Seems like around here, "guys" is trending towards non-gender-exclusivity.  Since we're not in the land of y'all or youse.

Edit: to be clear, it would not seem strange to me at all to call or understand someone who is calling a group of all males, mixed sexes, or all females "guys".  As in "HEY GUYS, SHUT UP".

[Margalis]

There are a lot of things you can women that aren't offensive. I would suggest skirts, broads or dames.

[Ratman_tf]

Women come in cans now? 

[Slyfeind]

I'm unfamiliar with Josef Fritzl, and fear googling it in case it's NSFW. 

With that in mind, I can say with a fair amount of certainty that it's "empowering to some". It's funny looking back on it, when I eluded to it earlier in this thread, being a sci-fi fantasy version of Sisterhood of the Travelling Pants. Now, my (Insert Whatever Fucking Gender-based Term for Dual-X Chromosomal Homo Sapien You Deem Appropriate)-friends would nod and look at me seriously and say "It is." Sometimes with a look of incredulity that seemed to say "No duh."

I'm going to hazard a guess and say that those who felt empowered by Sucker Punch were the target audience.

[Samwise]

Seems like around here, "guys" is trending towards non-gender-exclusivity.  Since we're not in the land of y'all or youse.

Now that you mention it, I guess I've been trending that way without noticing it.  I also use the non-gender-indicative "dude" from time to time.

[Ratman_tf]

I"m feeling old and crotetey now. Sucker Punch wore it's heart on it's sleeve, and had the prota-gonist spell everything out, and people (critics, webreviewers, etc) still didn't seem to get it.
I'm starting to think that they should just show two hours of commercials in the movie theaters and no one will notice.

[DraconianOne]

I'm going to hazard a guess and say that those who felt empowered by Sucker Punch were the target audience.

I always reckoned that the target audience was teenage boys. I know the 16 year old me would have loved this film.

I would genuinely love to know more about the women (or girls?) that you talk to who felt empowered by this film. Is it an age thing? Is it an American thing? What I do know is that, of the women I know who have seen this film (and most of the women I know who would go and watch this are into genre films - most of them are filmmakers, screenwriters and journalists) absolutely despise it. When I asked one friend who is a massive fantasy and horror film fan (although we only agree on the relative merits of about 50% of films) whether she had written anything about it, she said "I'm working on not giving money to bad films." And she's like me - she generally watches any old shit.

Maybe it's the difference between those who think stripping and prostitution is empowering for women and those who don't.

Oh - and a very SFW wiki article about Josef Fritzl . It's the case that inspired the very strange, Bunuel-esque film "Dogtooth".

[Slyfeind]

I always reckoned that the target audience was teenage boys. I know the 16 year old me would have loved this film.

I'd think that teenage boys would be bothered by this movie, much like going to see Pretty Woman expecting sex scenes and finding out it's a Cinderella story.

Maybe it's the difference between those who think stripping and prostitution is empowering for women and those who don't.

Not necessarily, since the stripping and prostitution was depicted as horribly degrading in Sucker Punch.

As for the people I've discussed this with, they are young, American, sci-fi/fantasy geeks. (Also female, as I mentioned earlier.)

[Merusk]

(Insert Whatever Fucking Gender-based Term for Dual-X Chromosomal Homo Sapien You Deem Appropriate)-

This is insensitive and exclusionary to the chromosomally-challenged and the gender-misassigned, you gigantic dick.


 

[Sjofn]

Yeah, it's annoying that women do not have a one-syllable term like "guys," but "girls" are children.

Seems like around here, "guys" is trending towards non-gender-exclusivity.  Since we're not in the land of y'all or youse.

Edit: to be clear, it would not seem strange to me at all to call or understand someone who is calling a group of all males, mixed sexes, or all females "guys".  As in "HEY GUYS, SHUT UP".

Yeah, that seems to be happening and that's cool (I prefer 'dude' for some reason, but 'guy' is definitely also becoming inclusive 'round here). But there's always That One Guy who's all, "Listen up guys! ... And LADY." I can never decide if they want a cookie for noticing I have boobs or what.

[Teleku]

You didn't call the movie a chick flick, you called the women you know chicks. There's a difference. Although at least you didn't call them "girls!"

WTF, your in California now!  Almost every damn woman/girl/dame I know even calls other women chicks!  That's the official word here!  Though for that matter, I generally refer to a guy as a dude.  Man and woman just sounds to damn formal...

And yeah, I realized I've been using "guys" as gender neutral for a long time now actually.  I'll ask a group of women if you guys saw such and such.  Guess its because saying gals sounds like your from the 1940's.

[Sjofn]

You know, I'm not even the one who initially fussed over the chick thing. But bitches, am i rite? So touchy!

No one's even said THE WORD CHICK IS FORBIDDEN. It's just pretty funny to talk about female empowerment while simultaneously using a word that is not exactly ... well, empowering.

[Ratman_tf]

But chicks are cute!

[WindupAtheist]

Chick flick my ass, this movie trended 75% male or something like that.

[Slyfeind]

Guy from The Escapist says stuff I pretty much agree with:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escape-to-the-movies/2962-Sucker-Punch

[WindupAtheist]

So Scott Pilgrim was "game-changing cinematic artistry" and Watchmen was "a truly great movie" and this was really a chick flick guys even if no women wanted to see it. This dude is the poster boy for head-up-ass irrelevant nerds.

[Margalis]

A faux "grrrl power" movie featuring a bunch of chicks dressed as strippers and directed by a guy who specializes in adolescent male fantasies is not a "chick flick."

[Slyfeind]

Yeah, you dress the female characters as strippers and it's automatically labelled a guy's movie. The guys go see it and say how horrible it is, and how it failed at being a hot action movie. The girls don't watch it because it's clearly a guy's movie. So we end up with situations like Quagmire on Family Guy going to see the Vagina Monologues and bitching about how there weren't any vaginas at all. 

[Ratman_tf]

I think the premise of the movie was flawed. The "sucker punch" is that it was a story about a couple of girls dealing with shit in a mental institution, dressed up as a crazy action movie to get guy nerds to go see it and *BAM* make them feel bad about wanting to look up a girl's skirt  while she's blasting steampunk zombies.

Which usually doesn't work because you can tune out the message and just look up the girl's skirt and not feel bad afterwards.

[Threash]

Question about the ending:

[Slyfeind]

I think he leaves it open on purpose; either he couldn't decide what happened, or didn't want to decide, or maybe he just wanted to fuc with the audience some more. My first impression was that they were killed somehow, but that wouldn't make sense for the reasons you mentioned. They were probably fine (if they even existed, because they could very well have been constructs of Sweet Pea and/or Babydoll).