StarCraft II

[Stormwaltz]

Well this is a surprise. Starcraft II hasn't sold well in Korea - mainly, it seems, because of Blizzard's heavy-handed attempts to get a piece of the e-sports money train.

http://www.next-gen.biz/features/the-battle-for-starcraft-ii

As Korean StarCraft commentator Milkis says, this offline battle is all about control. “Blizzard wanted a lot of control – ownership of pretty much everything – which KeSPA refused to give. The actual negotiations had little to do with money, but more about how much control each party has.”

Control seems to be increasingly important to Blizzard, as evidenced by its refusal to include the LAN play functionality which made the first game such a favourite. To play StarCraft II competitively at all, you have to go through the shinier but more restrictive Battle.net, without chatrooms and restricted to playing within the single region in which you purchased the game. Dig a little bit into Battle.net’s terms of use and you’ll find that it is forbidden to “use the Service for any ‘e-Sports’ or group competition sponsored, promoted or facilitated by any commercial or non-profit entity without Blizzard’s prior written consent”. In short, the unauthorised Korean scene is hereby put on notice: stop using Blizzard’s intellectual property, or be prepared to cough up for the privilege.

...the numbers playing in PC baangs (net cafes) have been lower than expected, with only two to three per cent of Korean gamers playing SCII in the month after it was released. It’s a tiny number given that Korea is perceived as StarCraft’s home market, that the game was released in time for the school holidays, and that it launched with a $30m ad campaign. In fact, StarCraft II’s three-million-plus sales have been mainly in the west.

[Ironwood]

I'm not that surprised.  Blizzard made it clear that they had little to no clue about what made Starcraft such a success.

[trias_e]

I've transitioned back into SC2 as my main go-to game, and damn it is still so much fun.  I even bought a GOMTV pass for GSL season 2 and 3, I'm so hooked.  Never thought I'd pay for e-sports.  I'm surpised I'm still enjoying this game so much, as I'm usually more fickle with my tastes over time.

Anyways, I'm a ~2000 diamond zerg at the moment.  I'm going to start streaming for shits and giggles.  livestream.com/trias

[Phry]

Cant hear you talk over the LOUD game noises trias

[Malakili]

Since I got Call of Duty Black Ops I haven't actually played this, but I've still been watching games.  It has come to my attention that I actually enjoying watching SC2 more than actually playing it.

[trias_e]

Hopefully fixed the black flashes and the sound issues on the stream.  Will cast more later!

[Yoru]

Just caught the tail end of you owning some dude. It was... well, the stream functioned, but it was pretty low-res for me.

Still, cool. It was eye-opening watching someone at your level in real-time; just goes to show you how much faster you need to act and move your vision around as you move up.

[bhodi]

Yeah, sadly, the livestream procaster is in very low res unless you pay for it :(

[bhodi]

For your viewing enjoyment, I present a Trias/Bhodi ZvP 5 pack on Xel'Naga Caverns.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=O01J2EF0

For extra amusement, check the APM tab.

[trias_e]

   You can also watch it in stunning low-definition, from my perspective, on the VoD from the livestream.

  http://www.livestream.com/trias/video?clipId=pla_f80b23e2-0bb0-48f0-9a20-ff189efec1f6

 starting about 1:14:00

[trias_e]

Just caught the tail end of you owning some dude. It was... well, the stream functioned, but it was pretty low-res for me.

I'm glad it was me owning some dude... I got owned my fair share today.   

Regarding the stream:  I'm trying to figure out the sweet spot between fps and resolution, but there's not so much I can really do unfortunately.  Not only is there the limitation with livestream, my computer starts to chug pretty badly as well if I try higher res or fps.

[Phry]

Had fun chatting and making fun of ya'll today :)  Maybe i'll play a game next time.

[trias_e]

I should be casting SC2 (maybe some other games) for most of today,,, hopefully I can actually play decently.  I've been on a pretty nasty losting streak recently. 

[Yoru]

If you haven't caught the ActionJesuz/Lucifron Dreamhack match, you owe it to yourself.

[Abagadro]

If you haven't caught the ActionJesuz/Lucifron Dreamhack match, you owe it to yourself.

Do you have a link?

EDIT: NM, found it.

[Yoru]

If you haven't caught the ActionJesuz/Lucifron Dreamhack match, you owe it to yourself.

Do you have a link?

EDIT: NM, found it.

Sorry, I had the livestream on at work. I believe all the matches that Day9 commentated are in his VOD archives.

[slog]

This is on right now btw.

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Day%5B9%5D

[Malakili]

All games that have been casted by Day9 at Dreamhack are up at Day9tv.blip.tv

[Yoru]

That final series was huge. Absolutely huge. I actually got excited watching it, and I normally loathe watching something instead of doing it.

Huge.

[Malakili]

Yeah, epic games, especially games 3 and 4.

[Malakili]

Losing to roaches soooo much lately, anyone have any ideas?

[Trippy]

Immortals or Stalkers plus Force Fields?

[Malakili]

Immortals or Stalkers plus Force Fields?

 

Robo might be the answer, but I'm worried about it being out in time to stop the initial rush.  I get into this rut where I feel like I need to get the 3 gates up fast to fend up the initial 7rr, and then combine if they keep pumping roaches and I stop to build much of anything else I fall behind.

I just need more practice against it I guess.  In that game there the push actually game late enough that I had actually thought it wasn't coming...and then it caught me out of position, so his initial did way more damage than it should normally.   I'm also just really shit when it comes to having a feel for the zerg timings, so I get caught off guard like that way too often.

[trias_e]

Just watched, some thoughts.

When you see the zerg on 1 base with a roach warren, you really need to build only sentries and stalkers and bunker up in your base.   You brought your units out towards your expansion, but you should not be looking to expand when zerg is on one base.  You want to build the sentry(ies) early to accumulate energy as well.  I don't see the point of more than 1 zealot either.  Get that second gas running sooner if you need to, but zealots are just horrible against roaches.  

I really think you need a robo.  Not for the initial rush, but just to scout with an obs after you've fended off the rush.  You play so horribly blind.  I simply can't stand it.  No need to build a forge that early against roaches.  Build robo instead.

The worst thing strategically that I've seen you do is just chill with an army right outside the opp. base.  I would only do this if you are planning on all-inning and you have a proxy pylon there to support.  Otherwise, you are just giving the opponent license to move out and kill your army whenever he feels like it.  Especially against zerg.

[Malakili]

Just watched, some thoughts.

When you see the zerg on 1 base with a roach warren, you really need to build only sentries and stalkers and bunker up in your base.   You brought your units out towards your expansion, but you should not be looking to expand when zerg is on one base.  You want to build the sentry(ies) early to accumulate energy as well.  I don't see the point of more than 1 zealot either.  Get that second gas running sooner if you need to, but zealots are just horrible against roaches.  

I really think you need a robo.  Not for the initial rush, but just to scout with an obs after you've fended off the rush.  You play so horribly blind.  I simply can't stand it.  No need to build a forge that early against roaches.  Build robo instead.

The worst thing strategically that I've seen you do is just chill with an army right outside the opp. base.  I would only do this if you are planning on all-inning and you have a proxy pylon there to support.  Otherwise, you are just giving the opponent license to move out and kill your army whenever he feels like it.  Especially against zerg.

Ok, my thought process was "Oh shit roach rush, let me get a forge real quick"...then the push didn't come so I thought maybe he just bluffed with the warren.  So I moved out to expand, and THEN it came.  Probably a product of not scouting enough as you said.  Jut totally misjudged the situation.

As for the leaving my stalkers there, I figured I would just sit there and make him feel like something was coming so I could have a little pressure off to expand. 

Not that I'm defending the actions there, I obvious messed up badly.  I guess I'm just trying to explain my thought process as the game was happening.   

PvZ is far and away my worst matchup, I just don't have any good feel for it.

As for zealots, I've had good success with pinning roaches on my ramp between a forcefield at the bottom and 2-3 zealots at the top and really laying the hurt on an early roach rush that way, it was my goal to do that there, it just didn't work out well because I was so out of position and had to scramble back up my ramp.  I think an earlier second gas is a good idea.

[bhodi]

Whoops, I missed this, sorry. Honestly, you played very well. You only lost because of a few minor things that all added up.

On the whole your macro was pretty solid, but you can tighten up your build order a tiny bit - your gateway was late by a probe. I also personally scout on the gateway probe on a map that large.

When you're fighting zerg, you need to make the wall entrance towards your base, not towards the outside. If the enemy gets vision, he can snipe all your units pulling back through the hole, like in the replay. Yes, if you build a building on the edge it can take some damage, but your stalkers can mass attack anything on the high ground. This also helps against mutas, closing the 'rush distance' between your main and your natural to prevent harass. I put my gateway in the vulnerable position, towards the edge. I have also done a half-wall half way in, which is better mid-late game but worse if your micro against speedling harass isn't good.

Don't build more units at the front than your gateway, your cyber, and 2-3 pylons. Build the rest of your buildings back out of sight, both to deny scouting and to prevent them from being in the way; the point of a wall is to have people on the other side firing :)

You went zealot zealot stalker sentry. Go zealot stalker sentry stalker(out of 2nd gateway) with a lot more sentries. You don't need 2 zealots if you're not planning on early pressure, and especially not when you scouted that roach warren.

You crono'd your cybercore. Don't do this unless you're 4gating. It won't pay for itself versus the econ any other way, and don't try it against a 1base anything. As you see, your unit mass won't appear fast enough, you're converting your gateways just as his attack hits.

A forge pre-expand is a poor choice against anything but mass speedlings.

Do you have show unit health enabled? There was an almost dead roach the whole time you were target firing his buddies.

When you went to counter, leave those zealots at home, and leave them blocking that hole. You could have had a nasty surprise if he had built a few speedlings and had manned the watchtowers and swung in behind your force with as few as 12 speedlings.

Leaving stalkers there, playing mind games is good against anything you can run away from, which is everything but speedlings. Once you had intel, which was that he expanded but was still massing roaches, and had told HIM that your force was outside, forcing him to build units and not drone up, your mission had been accomplished, time to go home.

In the final push, you're trying to use your forcefields like you would against terran or a primarily ranged mob. If he's got half speedlings, instead use them right up against your stalkers to prevent the zerglings from making contact instead. When you saw the speedlings come at you from the left, you should have pulled back to the side of the gateway/nexus and when they came in, forcefielded the left side of your ball. This was the big one, had you done that, and continued to reinforce above your ramp, your force probably would have won, and then won the game since you had a heavy worker lead.

[Ironwood]

Now that made me laugh :

You played very well.

*14 tomes of criticism and critique.*

 

[Malakili]

<stuff>

Thanks for the analysis, that'll help a lot.  I think I can put a lot of that advice to good use right away.  For some reason this matchup isn't clicking for me like PvT and PvP, so all these little things will help me build up a better feel.

[bhodi]

Now that made me laugh :

He's playing in the top 1% of all players. Possibly top 0.5%. A lot of it is nitpicky stuff. You can always do better!

[Ironwood]

Aye, I'm not slandering the intent. Merely giggling at the layout.

 

[Malakili]

Patch Notes up for the new PTR


Good stuff.

[Muffled]

-- Infestor

Fungal Growth no longer affects air units.

Holy Jesus, Zerg air defense vs. Phoenixes, Mutalisks, and drops just went to hell.

[trias_e]

That shit better not go live.

[Ironwood]

That fungal growth thing, combined with the air changes to Protoss, is a total game changer.

I foresee much more Zerg rapage.

[Malakili]

I have a feeling that one won't make it live, seeing as I've seen almost 0 positive responses to it, from zerg or anyone else.  My feeling is that they are doing it because of air units natural clumping makes it so you can fungal growth a huge ball of air units, but if that is their concern, there has got to be a better solution (like maybe giving it a max number of air targets if they must).

That being said, chat channels going in is nice, should be a lot easier to find practice partners!