StarCraft II

[Malakili]

Is there a way to get your drone count in game?  (I know you can do it for the replays)

Edit: early on, what am I supposed to do about 4 zealots in my base at 7:00 minutes?  When I scouted him, I didn't see anything that jumped out at me as "early attack"

The real trick is realizing that 7:00 minutes isn't a particularly "early attack," especially not with only 4 zealots.   I don't mean that in a snarky jerk sort of way, its just the truth.  If 7 minutes in you don't have something resembling a small army, or a means to defend a small army, you are doing something wrong.   I'm not talking huge, but you are getting into the mid game and out of the early game by the 7 minute mark, unless someone has truly gone for some sort of all in play.

[slog]

Is there a way to get your drone count in game?  (I know you can do it for the replays)

Edit: early on, what am I supposed to do about 4 zealots in my base at 7:00 minutes?  When I scouted him, I didn't see anything that jumped out at me as "early attack"

The real trick is realizing that 7:00 minutes isn't a particularly "early attack," especially not with only 4 zealots.   I don't mean that in a snarky jerk sort of way, its just the truth.  If 7 minutes in you don't have something resembling a small army, or a means to defend a small army, you are doing something wrong.   I'm not talking huge, but you are getting into the mid game and out of the early game by the 7 minute mark, unless someone has truly gone for some sort of all in play.

That was what I was getting at.  I had 8 zerglings and a Queen up, but their position sucked. 

[Wolf]

You seem to have micro problems; your banelings were sort of rolling around, and Not blowing up the buildings.

In case it wasnt mentioned - A moving banes will not target buildings. They'll try to go around and blow up on units, or if they can't just wander. Buildings need to be clicked.

[slog]

You seem to have micro problems; your banelings were sort of rolling around, and Not blowing up the buildings.

In case it wasnt mentioned - A moving banes will not target buildings. They'll try to go around and blow up on units, or if they can't just wander. Buildings need to be clicked.

I think what i did was click on a building that I had revealed but was not in my sight, so they just wandered around and got blown up (thanks for pointing that out).  That being said, How am I supposed to overcome 4 tanks in siege mode on that small ramp?

[K9]

Don't meet it head on unless you can mass broodlords and protect them. If he insists on turtling let him turtle, harass with mutas and claim the rest of the map. When he does move out (and he'll have to move out, since he'll mine out his main after about 15-20 mins) just eat him in the open. Someone who willingly locks themselves down is a lot easier to control.

[Wolf]

You seem to have micro problems; your banelings were sort of rolling around, and Not blowing up the buildings.

In case it wasnt mentioned - A moving banes will not target buildings. They'll try to go around and blow up on units, or if they can't just wander. Buildings need to be clicked.

I think what i did was click on a building that I had revealed but was not in my sight, so they just wandered around and got blown up (thanks for pointing that out).  That being said, How am I supposed to overcome 4 tanks in siege mode on that small ramp?

Like k9 said, leave him to his base and natural. Get 4-5 bases. Mass a lot of stuff (maaaaaaaany banelings, ultras, upgrades, infestors, some lings for color). Move overlords EVERYWHERE, so that he can't go out with a dropship that you won't see. Wait for him to come out in the open and destroy him. Get in the mood for 30 minute games, it's what zerg has turned into unfortunately. We'll see how well hydras do with the siege tank nerf, but I don't think this particular aspect of the game will chage. The only thing keeping me playing zerg and not switching to random is that I want to some day get the kerrigan portrait :(

[Malakili]

Reinstalled this today, I think I'm finally let play without getting ragey.  I'll get back to you guys on how that goes. 

[Segoris]

Mal's /ragequit due in 3.....2......1......

[Malakili]

Mal's /ragequit due in 3.....2......1......

My theory is that since I don't have much time to play, it'll take me longer :-D

I probably won't have any time to ladder until the weekend, so that'll be hurdle number one.

[Ironwood]

No-one cares.

[slog]

A very satisfying win over a 10 pooler.   Watch for the spinecrawler I build in his base while defending :)

[slog]

Anyone have any stats about Races played?  Seems like I see lots of Terran and Protoss, but not much Zerg.

[K9]

Here you go

[bhodi]

Anyone have any stats about Races played?  Seems like I see lots of Terran and Protoss, but not much Zerg.

Why, yes. Yes I do.

http://sc2ranks.com/stats/race/all/1


It's basically because spawn larvae is an unfun, unforgiving mechanic that if you miss makes you easily lose the game.

[slog]

URL blocked at work. Would you be willing to copy and paste?

[K9]

Races played for all brackets


Races played for 1v1


Races Played for Random 2v2


Races played in 1v1 Silver (Which I think was your bracket, right), divided by region

[trias_e]

The problem isn't just the mechanic.  Zerg is basically a punching bag for the other races until mutas come out, and many games end before that happens at all levels, including the highest skill levels (watch silver v idra as an example).

Yeah, there are balance problems:  http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=152533

[K9]

Additionally, the number of teams it has listed in each bracket (globally, also 1v1 is listed as a "team")

Code:

All	3,531,301
1v1	1,152,250

Team
2v2	807,832
3v3	393,452
4v4	142,064

Random
2v2	446,131
3v3	352,150
4v4	236,684

It's also interesting that Random is the most played race choice in random 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4 amongst diamond players.

[K9]

Also, apparently I'm ranked 20,328th in the world for 1v1 

[slog]

I wonder what Blizz thinks of all this? 

My thought on the Zerg mechanics is that if you have high APM skills the Vomit Larvae Macro is manageable.  At the lower levels, it's an absolute killer.

[K9]

I think it's interesting that protoss is more played than terran in every bracket other than bronze. Also note that the website doesn't have stats for specific win-loss rates for each matchup, although I'm sure Blizz do.

I think most would agree that zerg are more unforgiving than other races; it is hard to separate that from actual weakness. Zerg mechanics are the most different and easy to fuck up. Based on my experience I'd say ZvT is the toughest match up you can have (and playing random I get to see them all). I guess we'll just have to see what 1.1 brings. Reduced siege tank splash damage on light units could help, but it's not the only inequity on the ZvT comparison.

[slog]

At the Bronze level,  Zerg is extremely vulnerable to early rushes due to the inability to wall off.  I'm sure that's very discouraging to new players.

[K9]

True, a lot of bronze seemed to be turtle+air cheese, and Zerg can't really turtle and can't rush air.

Walling off with Roaches is a slightly more advanced tactic I guess.

[slog]

The problem isn't just the mechanic.  Zerg is basically a punching bag for the other races until mutas come out, and many games end before that happens at all levels, including the highest skill levels (watch silver v idra as an example).

Yeah, there are balance problems:  http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=152533

Thanks for linking that.  I like the folks who claim that those statistics don't mean anything.

[slog]

True, a lot of bronze seemed to be turtle+air cheese, and Zerg can't really turtle and can't rush air.

Walling off with Roaches is a slightly more advanced tactic I guess.

I have this idea for a build where I would use a FE build, but use the second Hatchery to wall off my base (instead of the Natural), go muti, and then destroy it when I'm ready to expand. 

[Malakili]

True, a lot of bronze seemed to be turtle+air cheese, and Zerg can't really turtle and can't rush air.

Walling off with Roaches is a slightly more advanced tactic I guess.

I have this idea for a build where I would use a FE build, but use the second Hatchery to wall off my base (instead of the Natural), go muti, and then destroy it when I'm ready to expand. 

Hell, wall off with 2 queens for the same price and transfuse each other for added hit points, and you get the extra queens out for air defense, creep tumors, etc.

[slog]

True, a lot of bronze seemed to be turtle+air cheese, and Zerg can't really turtle and can't rush air.

Walling off with Roaches is a slightly more advanced tactic I guess.

I have this idea for a build where I would use a FE build, but use the second Hatchery to wall off my base (instead of the Natural), go muti, and then destroy it when I'm ready to expand. 

Hell, wall off with 2 queens for the same price and transfuse each other for added hit points, and you get the extra queens out for air defense, creep tumors, etc.

I was thinking I would use the 2nd Hatchery to Drone up.

[Malakili]

True, a lot of bronze seemed to be turtle+air cheese, and Zerg can't really turtle and can't rush air.

Walling off with Roaches is a slightly more advanced tactic I guess.

I have this idea for a build where I would use a FE build, but use the second Hatchery to wall off my base (instead of the Natural), go muti, and then destroy it when I'm ready to expand. 

Hell, wall off with 2 queens for the same price and transfuse each other for added hit points, and you get the extra queens out for air defense, creep tumors, etc.

I was thinking I would use the 2nd Hatchery to Drone up.

I'd have to play with it to see what the timing is, but it strikes me that even though it feels pretty early and safe, that building 2 hatch off one base until mutas is fairly vulnerable, even if you are walled off.

[Kail]

Zerg mechanics are the most different and easy to fuck up.

Stupid question: it would seem to me that the big problem with the queen mechanic is missing spawns, so why don't Blizzard make it a right-click-to-autocast ability, like Repair or Charge?

[Malakili]

Zerg mechanics are the most different and easy to fuck up.

Stupid question: it would seem to me that the big problem with the queen mechanic is missing spawns, so why don't Blizzard make it a right-click-to-autocast ability, like Repair or Charge?

Because they want you to be able to fuck up.   Seriously.

The reason its not balanced with the other ones isn't because about forgetting, but rather than both protoss and terran can spam their macro mechanic to help make up for missing cycles of mule or chronoboost, where as Zerg can't spawn say, 2 spawn larvaes at a time to make up for missing one.

[Yoru]

Is there some secret way to trigger an ability from one hotkeyed group and have it apply to things in another hotkey group? I'm boggling at how people manage to spend all their chronoboost once they're past, oh, fifty supply or so. Hell, mine starts to build up around 30 unless I really keep on top of it.

But it would be great to just go 6 (nexii), C, 5 (warpgates), <some apply key here>, repeat 2-4 times really fast.

[Malakili]

Is there some secret way to trigger an ability from one hotkeyed group and have it apply to things in another hotkey group? I'm boggling at how people manage to spend all their chronoboost once they're past, oh, fifty supply or so. Hell, mine starts to build up around 30 unless I really keep on top of it.

But it would be great to just go 6 (nexii), C, 5 (warpgates), <some apply key here>, repeat 2-4 times really fast.

I don't think it works that way, though I think you can do it using the minimap, though accuracy issues come in there.  Its just a matter of awareness and practice really (I'm not that great at it myself).  A lot of the replays you see are of people who are REALLY GOOD, and its really hard to understand just how much better a lot of these guys are than even most of the top diamond players.  Their awareness is spot on, they don't forget things, their muscle memory means they never hit wrong keys, or extremely rarely.   One of the biggest problems I have is seeing those sorts of things and thinking "Ok I need to do "that"" where "that" is just, what I saw in a replay, when in reality I need to be just spending like 200 games of practicing macro and perfecting timings in a live game environment and losing most of them but getting way better at actually playing the game.    I have a LOT of trouble having the kind of discipline I need to do that though.  Especially now that I'm back in school and i have time for maybe 5-10 games a week if I'm lucky, it really feels terrible to spend those 5-10 games getting demolished because you were working on mechanics.

Until you have those sorts of things down, forgetting chronoboost doesn't even matter that much in the big picture.  I

Also, realize that I just lost a game I should've won because I made stupid errors and a lot of this criticism spewing forth is aimed at myself, and not you.

[slog]

Could use a some help here



Lost to a cannon rush.  I never moved the roaches out because it seems like cannons just eat them alive.

[Muffled]

First thing I noticed about that cannon rush: those first three zealots did a lot more damage in the long run than the cannons, if even a few of those zerglings that they chewed up had stayed alive you might well have been able to kill the pylons/cannons while they were warping.  Second thing, high ground advantage.  Walk the spinecrawlers over to the ledge and they could happily poke away at those close cannons while taking no return fire.  You did well to kill those first pylons in your base, good reaction there.  Finally, keep in mind that cannons can only fire so quickly, speedlings or a decent number of roaches can just ignore one or two cannons while they run to the protoss' mineral line and wreck his shit.

[Ironwood]

Haven't watched the replay yet, but for Protoss cannon rushers;  If you can't get at the pylons or the cannons, send those units to screw up his production.  Kill as many drones as you can.  If you can stick some spine crawlers down to stop the advance, then soon he's sitting there without resources, and Island in a sea of Cunted.

I've killed so many rushers this way.