StarCraft II

[Megrim]

6 rax marine spam.

Did somebody say Deep Six?

Ahahahaha oh god, that brings back memories. I think at some point i had a working 14rax/2fact/2port tvp that revolved around 8+ dropships of m&m flying around crushing toss bases. So many marines, storm and reavers couldn't kill them fast enough. Have to thank Heartcutter for that one.

[trias_e]

Evolution Chambers as timebombs?

Watch.  Laugh.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=146838

[Malakili]

Evolution Chambers as timebombs?

Watch.  Laugh.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=146838

Thats the kind of bullshit that ruins the game for me.  Kind of hilarious, but also the kind of thing that would piss me off if I was like "hey, i'm gonna play a couple games, this'll be fun" and then some cocksucker pulls that on you and you don't even get a good solid game in before you have to stop playing.

[Strazos]

Also, that APM video seems like somewhat BS; a LOT of their actions were simply hitting the group bindings constantly, checking units.

And this is why you fail..

I was wondering why he was constantly selecting the groups of units....that are already on-screen...use ALT? Or he's moving units somewhere, and constantly selecting back to them seemingly a few times a second, instead of just checking the minimap or something. It seemed excessive.

Granted, some of the time he was actually doing something when selecting back a moment, but a lot of times...nothing.

[Abagadro]

Evolution Chambers as timebombs?

Watch.  Laugh.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=146838

Thats the kind of bullshit that ruins the game for me.  Kind of hilarious, but also the kind of thing that would piss me off if I was like "hey, i'm gonna play a couple games, this'll be fun" and then some cocksucker pulls that on you and you don't even get a good solid game in before you have to stop playing.

I'd agree if that was some random game but it was a wanker "play me 1v1" stomp so he deserved it.

[Malakili]

Also, that APM video seems like somewhat BS; a LOT of their actions were simply hitting the group bindings constantly, checking units.

And this is why you fail..

I was wondering why he was constantly selecting the groups of units....that are already on-screen...use ALT? Or he's moving units somewhere, and constantly selecting back to them seemingly a few times a second, instead of just checking the minimap or something. It seemed excessive.

Granted, some of the time he was actually doing something when selecting back a moment, but a lot of times...nothing.

If you wait until something needs to be done, you're already too late.  Constantly cycling through when you have "free" actions to use keeps you on your toes and lets you make minor adjustments to your units when needed.  Now, I'm not good enough to have really any extra actions to be using on fine details like that, but just thinking is BS/spam to inflate your APM is ignorant of why APM is actually important.

I'd agree if that was some random game but it was a wanker "play me 1v1" stomp so he deserved it.

Not really my point, but fine.  I just hate cheese in general, and especially goofy shit like this.

[birdsguts]

Not really my point, but fine.  I just hate cheese in general, and especially goofy shit like this.

Ruins the game for you?
You don't sound like you mean you get mad every time you lose... just when you lose to rushes.

My unwanted 2 cents:
There's another way to look at it.
Stop calling it "Cheese" first of all.
Some people find certain parts of the game to be more interesting than others.
Some people like to push with an early army, stop heavy macro-ing and go for an early win because they find the micro and the fighting to be the funnest part. They wanna get there fast. At higher levels it can actually become a full on style.
Instead of getting mad about it (probably in part because you are viewing it as a "cheesey" tactic) why don't you learn to effectively hold off rushes and just accept that those players are better than you on some level. You just don't want to see it because you think there is a "proper" way to play a "competitive video game".

Scout the rush. Build a force that can hold it off. Stop them and resume macro-ing at a slight advantage.

Or not... your call.
Your 60 bucks not mine.

[Malakili]

Not really my point, but fine.  I just hate cheese in general, and especially goofy shit like this.

Ruins the game for you?
You don't sound like mean you "rage" every time you lose... just when you lose to rushes.

Its not even about losing to rushes per se.  Even when I win against a rush it leaves a bad taste in my mouth, which is actually fairly often at this point (or was before I uninstalled), just send a scout a little extra early on 2 player maps and you're fine most of the time, and have a good chance at it as long as you don't mess up the micro.  I feel like I've been cheated out of a good game.  I don't mind early pressure, I don't even mind stuff like a cannon contain or bunker contain.  What I mind is people who go for all-in coin flip plays because they like to see their name move up the ladder and don't care about getting better at the game long term.  It just pushes all the wrong (or right I suppose) buttons and sets me off.

Also, yeah, it was my 60 bucks, but I just don't feel compelled to play much any more, I did for a while, but to be honest the huge percentage of games that lasted around 8 minutes while laddering are just not that fun to me and aren't worth investing time into playing SC2 for in my opinion.  Its a fine game, well polished, well executed, it just turns out that the way its played most of the time doesn't really compel me to want to login and play anymore.  C'est la vie.

[birdsguts]

Oh righto.
I can see that.

I had a similar feeling with TF2 for the longest time... by that I mean the feeling that the game just didn't have the ability to deliver the kind of "quality" matches I was looking for....
Eventually I solved that problem with arranged games but yeah.... Now your complaint makes sense.

Too bad. I know that burning sensation all too well.
Hope when I actually gain some ranks on Bnet I don't run into the same "wall" of game quality.

[Demonix]

Not really my point, but fine.  I just hate cheese in general, and especially goofy shit like this.

Ruins the game for you?
You don't sound like you mean you get mad every time you lose... just when you lose to rushes.

My unwanted 2 cents:
There's another way to look at it.
Stop calling it "Cheese" first of all.
Some people find certain parts of the game to be more interesting than others.
Some people like to push with an early army, stop heavy macro-ing and go for an early win because they find the micro and the fighting to be the funnest part. They wanna get there fast. At higher levels it can actually become a full on style.
Instead of getting mad about it (probably in part because you are viewing it as a "cheesey" tactic) why don't you learn to effectively hold off rushes and just accept that those players are better than you on some level. You just don't want to see it because you think there is a "proper" way to play a "competitive video game".

Scout the rush. Build a force that can hold it off. Stop them and resume macro-ing at a slight advantage.

Or not... your call.
Your 60 bucks not mine.

Nah it's cheese.  I don't play online because all the discussions just seem to focus on the first 10 minutes of the game.  Whats the fun in that?

Something was lost in the sequel.  Maybe it was my innocence, lol. :)

[birdsguts]

Something was lost in the sequel.  Maybe it was my innocence, lol. :)

I get what your saying.
I guess my view of the first game is more like one steady losing streak that never broke.
Really, I used to get kicked up and down old Bnet.... though I did join the game very late... Like '01-02ish.
At that point I think it was already somewhat established and the learning curve was pretty crazy.
To me the fact that I can even win occasionally in an SC2 match is pretty encouraging.
Then again I'm usually not happy unless a game is really hard. (Insert fond thoughts of old stuff like Kid Icarus and shmups like Ikaruga)

I'm not one for RTS singleplayer aside from training so that probably colors the view alot too.

To me SC2 feels more like it's part of that trend that has emerged recently among companies that make games that have gone "competitive" before.
You know, the thing where they build a new version that is supposed to be "new player friendly"... a way to introduce people to the game so they can maybe grasp the complexity of the earlier "more beloved" works.
That is something I'm ok with as long as it's done well... "so far so good" is my assessment of this particular game but I guess time will tell.
It's interesting to me that I see more and more people coming to this conclusion though. (The "something is lost" viewpoint.)

Maybe I will as well.
Perhaps it'll be enough to propel me back into playing the original if it does happen. *shrug*

[Wolf]

Also, that APM video seems like somewhat BS; a LOT of their actions were simply hitting the group bindings constantly, checking units.

And this is why you fail..

I was wondering why he was constantly selecting the groups of units....that are already on-screen...use ALT? Or he's moving units somewhere, and constantly selecting back to them seemingly a few times a second, instead of just checking the minimap or something. It seemed excessive.

Granted, some of the time he was actually doing something when selecting back a moment, but a lot of times...nothing.

Very good players spam in the beginning to keep "warm". If you have 300APM spaming in the beginning it just means you'll have 150-200 effective APM when it matters.

[trias_e]

After playing quite a few  games, I don't see why you would spend the time at the start of the game without practicing SOMEthing.

I was a solo trumpet in jazz band back in the day, and I damn well went through all of my scales every single chance I had to do so.  Any break, just run your fingers through the scales and make sure you know them flawlessly.  The beginning of a sc2 game is a break and thus, it's worth it to focus on practicing your 'scales' so to speak, during that time.

[K9]

Evolution Chambers as timebombs?

Watch.  Laugh.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=146838

That was amusing

[jakonovski]

6 rax marine spam would probably get you into diamond.

I only build 4 barracks, which gets me...bronze.

[bhodi]

If you like marines, try the megarax build. Build depot, rax as normal. No gas. Four rax, stop building scvs after you have 16 or so. Attack when you have 4 and just rally to front of their base for marine rush kekeke

For those who are burned on 1v1, you should try the custom games. There aren't totally awesome ones yet but there are several neat diversions.

Also zerg are hard to play. Being able to inject larvae every 30s is critical to winning. If you can't do it, and I can't consistently, try protoss instead. I personally think toss is easier.

[Malakili]

For those who are burned on 1v1, you should try the custom games. There aren't totally awesome ones yet but there are several neat diversions.

My main problem with this is that when it comes down to it, I feel no reason why I shouldn't just go play a real game, instead of a custom map.  I mean sure, there is the occasional DOTA which basically turned out to be a full game in itself and spawned a new genre, but realistically speaking there are plenty of great games installed on my computer that I can go play immediately instead of sifting through 95% crap custom maps.  Then again, I've had the same problem with Custom maps since sc1, so don't mind me.

[jakonovski]

I was thinking of going achievement hunting at some point. I really love the showcase section of player profiles, it's a great idea.

[K9]

Note, you can get all of the "Economy" and "Melee Combat" achievements in the "Combat" category playing against the AI. You only need to be playing against other humans for the "League Combat" achievements (and all the "Quick Match" achievements obviously).

This is nice, as some of the achivements require you to do somewhat gimpy things that you could pull off online against another player, but you probably wouldn't want to.

The 3v3 Mix and 4v4 Kin achievements in the custom game are quite easy to knock out, although I found that very hard still gives me a lot of hassle. The custom FFA vs AI achievements are winnable with various different types of cheese, since they tend to wipe each other out. I managed to do several of them as terran vs protoss by walling off and letting them screw each other over then walking over the remains of them with marines and ghosts. Rushing to battlecruisers is supposedly a good method too.

[Ingmar]

There are a couple maps with island expansions you can fly to and turtle up on as Terran (which is how I did the FFA insanity one.)

[Fordel]

The Evo Chamber game had so very little to do with the actual effectiveness of the Broodlings, and so much more to do with the fact the Terran player just had no idea what was going on. If the Terran wasn't so busy going "wait... what?", he could have just moved his wall to the bottom of his ramp instead of the top and that would be that.

[Malakili]

The Evo Chamber game had so very little to do with the actual effectiveness of the Broodlings, and so much more to do with the fact the Terran player just had no idea what was going on. If the Terran wasn't so busy going "wait... what?", he could have just moved his wall to the bottom of his ramp instead of the top and that would be that.

This actually more or less sums up a big problem with the ladder system.  The fact that you are basically never going to see the same person twice means that goofy/gimmicky plays that are fairly likely to win once but never beat a person twice work EXTREMELY well for moving up the ladder.

[Fordel]

Nah, then the Meta shifts and people deal with it. It's like when you see XYZ build order on Day9, you know you are going to be fighting that for at least a week straight or whatever, then the new fotm thing happens and life goes on.

[Soulflame]

I thought the problem with ladder is it seems to have no really good idea who to match you with most of the time, so you're as likely to see someone near your skill level as you are to be beaten severely by someone you have no business being pitted against.

You know, the whole "burly men" thing.

[Khaldun]

I am at that almost fatal point with well-designed RTS games where I might actually buy the fucker and then get annoyed and bored with the basic structure of game mechanics in the whole genre. I've done it again and again and I'm not sure why I don't learn my lesson. There is just something in my brain that does not love twitch + strategy. Turn-based 4EVER baby, I guess.

[Ingmar]

I just play them for the single-player and co-op. I have come to accept that I'm just not going to be fast enough on the micro in these games, and the arghghghghghghghgh factor is too high in competitive multiplayer for me anyway.

This particular game doesn't even really support my typical RTS playstyle (turtle x1000) in multiplayer, too, so even more reason.

[Fordel]

Just because you could sit in your base and make nothing but Voidrays, doesn't mean you should! 

[Ingmar]

Maybe if some Canadian would get off his ass and buy the game I'd have a reason to build something else. 

[slog]

The basic problem with Starcraft ladders is that they are meaningless when you spend most of the time playing people in another ladder.

[Malakili]

The basic problem with Starcraft ladders is that they are meaningless when you spend most of the time playing people in another ladder.

I think the community is mostly using www.sc2ranks.com

[K9]

IdrA has an 85% win ratio on the ladders 

Also, how is a guy who is 60-0 still in bronze? 

[Zetor]

Does that count the practice league? (~50 guaranteed wins if you are halfway decent)

[K9]

I guess it must be. Actually I don't know how anyone posts into bronze with no losses. If you loot at Plat there are a ton of 5-0 people who have clearly just done their placement matches and that's it. There's a 59-0 guy in silver too. In theory these guys should have at least 3-5 losses from the placements for them to be in that league. There hasn't been enough time for people to place into plat then sink to bronze through point decay (if it's even possible to drop leagues like that?)

[Wolf]

I've read some horror stories on tl about people being stuck in plat forever. Maybe it's possible for the placements to bug out and stick you in a lower league that you can't get out of.

On a brighter note - tournament weekend again. Mlg raleigh will be fully streamed, i'm looking forward to seeing what nony could do with some practice under his belt. Also the gsl qualifications are this weekend in korea. No idea if something will be streamed live, although i'm sure there will be some tasteless goodness over the next couple of weeks.

[K9]

Dimaga vs Morrow Part 1 Part 2

Really great game