StarCraft II

[Rasix]

First full system lock in 2v2 (sorry Margalis).  YAY. 

[Margalis]

We won.  

Good call, they had all marines and my banelings obliterated them. After that I just flooded in lings and zealots.

[Malakili]

I'm seriously considering picking a race at this point, but I feel like its taking the easy way out and I've gotten it into my head that random is the only "pure" way to play as it gives yourself the least advantage...

If you're playing to win, there is no "taking the easy way out." 

I know thats how most people approach it, win and all costs, use anything and everything at your ability to do so, but I just don't think that way.  I'm that way in real life too though, not just in video games.   So, I can still be "playing to win" but put artificial restrictions on myself because I feel like that if I can do it that way, then I REALLY feel like I  deserve to succeed.  Its the same reason I hate to cheese, it doesn't feel like a deserved win to me.  Not precisely the same, but it arises from the same mentality.  I know its stupid and I know I have no right to complain about losing when I'm not doing everything possible to give myself the best chance to win, but I have trouble approaching it any other way.

[Ratman_tf]

One advantage to Random is that for a short while, your opponent doesn't know what race you are. He's got to scout. Of course, a decent player is going to scout anyway, but until he gets a peek at you, he may fall a little behind in his plans. But then if you're both Random it equalizes again.

Not that I play a ton of multiplayer, I'm just in an informal league. But it seems to me that playing Random will give you a broad approach to the game, but it takes 3X as long to get as good as a one-race player.

[Strazos]

No idea why, but I seem to do worse when I try any of these strats....sigh.

[Malakili]

Removed - I don't want to shit up this thread with my bitching.

[tazelbain]

I uninstalled.  I'm making myself nuts over this and really am past the point of even having fun.  I really WANT to like it, I really want to get better at it, and I really wish I could approach this game in a way that I wouldn't drive myself crazy,  but I need to cut myself off because I have the total inability to approach this casually and the result is me getting angry over what is supposed to be my leisure time.  I consider it a personal failure more than a failure of the game really.  Oh well, I gave it a shot.

Na, it means you don't have OCD which is good.

[Malakili]

Removed - See above.

[Segoris]

Sorry Marg, missed you message. Was in a pretty tight game. If you're interested I'll go for some 2v2, though I'll probably be no where near most people's skill level yet

[K9]

No idea why, but I seem to do worse when I try any of these strats....sigh.

The problem is that the openings are presented as gospel, when really they are core frameworks that you need to adapt around. If you're thinking too much about adhering to a set route, you often forget or neglect to pay attention and adapt to what your opponent is doing. Take them as guides, not gospel I'd say. Use the logic behind them and find your own build orders which suit you.

The main things to learn from them are to minimise downtime on production facilities/units (especially your harvesters) and to out produce your enemy. Then the other half of the game is figuring out how to apply your army against the enemy.

So for example, things to avoid would be building multiple barracks say, before you have the mineral income to support steady production at all of them. Or building multiple gas extractors before you really need gas and hurting your mineral income.

[jakonovski]

God, I won like four games in a row with the medevac drop, didn't play on Saturday, and now I'm getting gold players whose macro kills me dead before I can even get off the ground. Hey Blizz, I'm not THAT good. I'm still in the lowest tier of bronze for christ's sake.

Edit: but holy poop it's an effective way to learn, I'm getting way better at setting early defenses, esp. against Protoss.

[Ginaz]

I generally suck at this game in multiplayer, but a saw a video that shows a banshee rush tactic.  You basically build as fast as you can to get 2 starports then you churn out banshees and research cloak and rush their base.  I've tried this 4 times so far and its worked each time.  You might be screwed if they go for an early, hard rush at your base since your defenses are minimal but that hasn't happened yet.

[Ironwood]

It's easily countered.

Banshees are fairly pish.

[K9]

Banshee rush works well against zerg, ok against protoss and is pretty dire against Terran. The main issue is that the time to get to 3-4 cloaked Banshees is quite long, and requires a hefty chunk of resouces. Banshees are fragile as hell, and comsat+marines will eat them before you even come close to recouping your expenditure. You're also left without a solid defense.

God, I won like four games in a row with the medevac drop, didn't play on Saturday, and now I'm getting gold players whose macro kills me dead before I can even get off the ground. Hey Blizz, I'm not THAT good. I'm still in the lowest tier of bronze for christ's sake.

Edit: but holy poop it's an effective way to learn, I'm getting way better at setting early defenses, esp. against Protoss.

Yeah, getting stomped on really exposes you to your errors.

[jakonovski]

WTF, are all the bronze players dead or something, I get maybe half not-quite-bottom-of-the-barrel bronze opponents, and I now win about half of those as is supposed to be. Then there's the other half of my games, that are against silver or better, which I promptly lose all. My standing goes down veeeeeery slowly as the system counts my losses to good players as only -1 or -2 points.

edit: scratch that, I'm actually climbing by having a w/l ratio significantly less than one. I just beat a lower ranked player than me and got like +40 points. Battle.net must think I'm destined for greatness or something.

[jakonovski]

I've actually won against a couple of silvers now. I think it's all down to practice, as I'm really not good at doing the transition to other stuff if the medevac drop fails. One game literally went to both sides destroying each others' bases, and the only reason why I lost was because the dude had minerals left to build a new one, roughly the margin by which his macro had been better than mine.

[K9]

Congratulations, practise really helps a lot.

Two awesome korean replays, PvT. This level of play is just crazy.

Game 1
Game 2

[jakonovski]

That level of play is just insane. The best part is that it just looks so effortless.

[slog]

WTF, are all the bronze players dead or something, I get maybe half not-quite-bottom-of-the-barrel bronze opponents, and I now win about half of those as is supposed to be. Then there's the other half of my games, that are against silver or better, which I promptly lose all. My standing goes down veeeeeery slowly as the system counts my losses to good players as only -1 or -2 points.

edit: scratch that, I'm actually climbing by having a w/l ratio significantly less than one. I just beat a lower ranked player than me and got like +40 points. Battle.net must think I'm destined for greatness or something.

The ranking system doesn't use the league ratings for matchmaking.  There is a completely separate ranking algorithm for that which of course you can't see.

[Malakili]

Congratulations, practise really helps a lot.

Two awesome korean replays, PvT. This level of play is just crazy.

Game 1
Game 2

the void ray micro at the beginning.

[jakonovski]

The ranking system doesn't use the league ratings for matchmaking.  There is a completely separate ranking algorithm for that which of course you can't see.

I think this is a good spot to use the word byzantine.

[Rasix]

They're trying to see if you need to be promoted.  Toward the end of my silver play, I was getting nothing but top rank gold or mid plat in matchups.

[jakonovski]

You were right, I got promoted to silver.

[Fordel]

Congratulations, practise really helps a lot.

Two awesome korean replays, PvT. This level of play is just crazy.

Game 1
Game 2

What kills me is just how calm it seems. That early kind of Void harass with the stalker support under the ledge would send me into panic mode, but the Terran here was like "no big thing, I can just repair my barracks till stim pack finishes researching and I can snipe the ray!"

[Ginaz]

I finally did my placement matches today and got placed in Bronze.   Yeah, I kind of suck.  I'm about 50/50 so far.

[Malakili]

, but the Terran here was like "no big thing, I can just repair my barracks till stim pack finishes researching and I can snipe the ray!"

To be fair, he is a professional, and is playing in a friendly match against one of his team mates.  Hes been in a lot more pressure filled situations in starcraft than that.   I mean sure, I would've lost right there I'm sure too, but I was just impressed in general by the really amazing micro by other sides.    Watch how fast the terran hotkeys each of his individual scvs at the beginning.   My god.

[Fordel]

I finally did my placement matches today and got placed in Bronze.   Yeah, I kind of suck.  I'm about 50/50 so far.

As long as you are having fun and feel like you are actually competing, then I wouldn't worry about which league you get sent too. A Bronze vs. Bronze can be just as intense for the players as any of these super pro diamond matches are.


It's only really bad if you just get rolled all the time.

[Strazos]

I'm scared to play in leagues, not sure why. Been doing a lot of coop with friends...4v4 vs Hard AIs can be pretty frustrating, especially that first rush...it sure hits hard.

Anyone have a resource giving a rundown of the different difficulties? Normal to Hard seems like a huge jump, and the amount of units that get popped out seems unreal.

EDIT: Though I felt like screwing around with Protoss today...first ever match with them, I ran up to Immortals and eventually just overpowered, choked off expansions, etc. Pretty snazzy, I thought.

[apocrypha]

I played my first few non-coop matches yesterday. Did a couple of 2v2's in the practice tournament, totally came top of both of them in every metric so I hit the "Skip" button and plunged into placement games.

1st one on of our opponents left the game after 1 minute and then the other one left too after about 5 mins, counted as an easy win. 2nd game my partner left after 2 mins and then I got rapidly roflstomped.

I shall do a few more today and see if I can get a real game 

[slog]

I just eclipsed the 50% win mark in Bronze last night.  :)

I'm trying to concentrate more on the micro and scouting.  Makes a big difference, but I still don't use my scouting to full effect.  I think this is mostly because I'm still learning what stuff like "Two gate proto rush" means.

To the person who is reluctant to play in leagues:  It can be a little hard on one's ego to be in the Bronze league and to lose a lot.   Once you get over the "I am not special at SC2" roadblock, you might find that it's a lot of fun.

[Rasix]

I'm trying to concentrate more on the micro and scouting.

That seems like the wrong focus there in bronze, but whatever works for you.  Personally, I'd focus on your macro to about the 50-60 food count and then do something with it.  If you're keeping your money low, not getting supply blocked, and building up a non-retarded army comp; 1-a will beat just about anyone in bronze.

For scouting, just build your depot, and send the scv.  Once you're inside their base, just cue up a bunch of moves and pop in every once in a while.  Also, if you don't get much out of your scouting just assume everyone in bronze/silver cheeses.  This means finish your wall-in early against toss and zerg.

edit:
Ohh, and don't rely on drops. 

[slog]

I'm trying to concentrate more on the micro and scouting. 

That seems like the wrong focus there in bronze, but whatever works for you.  Personally, I'd focus on your macro to about the 50-60 food count and then do something with it.

For scouting, just build your depot, and send the scv.  Once you're inside their base, just cue up a bunch of moves and pop in every once in a while.  Also, if you don't get much out of your scouting just assume everyone in bronze/silver cheeses.  This means finish your wall-in early against toss and zerg.

My Macro is much better than it was. I have the build to 50 down really well though.

Maybe I need to work on identifying cheese.....

[K9]

If you can comfortably handle 6/10-poolers, cannon rushers and reapers you'll be able to cope with the majority of the common "cheese" strategies.

[slog]

I lost to a two gate zealot rush.  He had built right outside my base.  My macro was way to slow and my scouting poor.

[K9]

Yeah, those are an arse.