StarCraft II

[trias_e]

God I love being in a terrible division.  Diamond Rank 1 baby!

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/9273/screenshot2010081014272.jpg

[Paelos]

You know that's got your real name plastered all over it right?

Just FYI if you care.

[trias_e]

Nah it's not a big deal, but thanks for looking out.

[jakonovski]

I played my first three games in the practice league tonight. Went 1-2, pretty good I'd say. The multitude of rock piles confused me at first. The first game was a long slugfest that ended up on me forgetting to build base defences because I was having too much fun nuking 200 enemy units. In the second I was Reaper rushed, and in the third I tried it myself and microed a Protoss to death with 5 of em.

[slog]

http://screplays.com/replays/lafaceduslog/4295

That's a replay of a Terran build I got off the internet.  Won three games in a row with it tonight.

It basically goes like this

10 supply in wall-off position
12 rax on wall
13 gas
15 rax
16 supply to finish wall
scout with SCV
have 5 marines
tech lab
supply
factory
supply
rax
supply to 50 over time
gas
starport at 100 gas
stim
medivacs
build what you can without impacting medivacs
push when 2-3 medivacs stim and lots of marines

Thoughts?

[trias_e]

If you can pull it off you will run over most people in the lower leagues with that build.  Be wary of banelings and tanks though, as they will ruin your day something fierce.

[bhodi]

You should start a CC somewhere in there, and sadly that build will lose to terran mech and well microed blink stalkers. One thing to remember is that medivacs don't do much for midsize armies during combat, they allow you to be more mobile and heal after harass than you would have been able to without them.

Also, I don't see a +1 in there which might help. I can't watch the replay since I'm not going to register to do it.

[slog]

oh ya, I do the CC right when I attack.

Edit: is there a better place to upload them?

[waffel]

http://screplays.com/replays/lafaceduslog/4295

That's a replay of a Terran build I got off the internet.  Won three games in a row with it tonight.

It basically goes like this

10 supply in wall-off position
12 rax on wall
13 gas
15 rax
16 supply to finish wall
scout with SCV
have 5 marines
tech lab
supply
factory
supply
rax
supply to 50 over time
gas
starport at 100 gas
stim
medivacs
build what you can without impacting medivacs
push when 2-3 medivacs stim and lots of marines

Thoughts?

And this is fun to people?

[trias_e]

of course!   

I use http://www.sc2replayed.com/ for my replays slog

[Megrim]

http://screplays.com/replays/lafaceduslog/4295

That's a replay of a Terran build I got off the internet.  Won three games in a row with it tonight.

It basically goes like this

10 supply in wall-off position
12 rax on wall
13 gas
15 rax
16 supply to finish wall
scout with SCV
have 5 marines
tech lab
supply
factory
supply
rax
supply to 50 over time
gas
starport at 100 gas
stim
medivacs
build what you can without impacting medivacs
push when 2-3 medivacs stim and lots of marines

Thoughts?

And this is fun to people?

1.e4 e5 Double King's Pawn Opening or Open Game
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Ruy Lopez
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 Scotch Game
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Italian Game
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 Four Knights Game
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 Petrov's Defense
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 Philidor Defense
1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Vienna Game
1.e4 e5 2.Bc4 Bishop's Opening
1.e4 e5 2.f4 King's Gambit
1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.Qxd4 Center Game
1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.c3 Danish Gambit


.... I just don't understand. How could people find this fun?!?!

[slog]

You should start a CC somewhere in there, and sadly that build will lose to terran mech and well microed blink stalkers. One thing to remember is that medivacs don't do much for midsize armies during combat, they allow you to be more mobile and heal after harass than you would have been able to without them.

Also, I don't see a +1 in there which might help. I can't watch the replay since I'm not going to register to do it.

ok try this

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/54302-1v1-terran-delta-quadrant

I tried to hotdrop in this one and he recovered, but I still won the match.

[Ratman_tf]

People play goddamn Sudoku for fun.

[slog]

http://screplays.com/replays/lafaceduslog/4295

That's a replay of a Terran build I got off the internet.  Won three games in a row with it tonight.

It basically goes like this

10 supply in wall-off position
12 rax on wall
13 gas
15 rax
16 supply to finish wall
scout with SCV
have 5 marines
tech lab
supply
factory
supply
rax
supply to 50 over time
gas
starport at 100 gas
stim
medivacs
build what you can without impacting medivacs
push when 2-3 medivacs stim and lots of marines

Thoughts?

And this is fun to people?

I love mapping out strategies, trying them out, then analyze, then modify, and so on.   It's not for everyone that's for sure.

[bhodi]

To be honest, it's not a very good build.

Basically, you need to do less rote memorization and more focusing on your basics - pumping units out of your structures at all times, not getting supply blocked, scouting, and not having a stockpile of unused minerals. Get those down, THEN worry about tightening build orders.

Work for something like this. This isn't a strict build order, everything after the orbital command is just winging it. Just kept to the basics - spent my money, never stopped building SCVs, got my upgades, and did a timing push once they were complete. Note that I am so horribly out of practice, this is literally the third 1v1 I have played since before the beta broke for a week.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/54334-1v1-terran-protoss-lost-temple

Yes, I stomped him because he was terrible and I am still in placements, but that push would have beaten a decent player as well.

For extra credit, find all my mistakes! I made several.

[Rasix]

http://screplays.com/replays/lafaceduslog/4295

That's a replay of a Terran build I got off the internet.  Won three games in a row with it tonight.

It basically goes like this

10 supply in wall-off position
12 rax on wall
13 gas
15 rax
16 supply to finish wall
scout with SCV
have 5 marines
tech lab
supply
factory
supply
rax
supply to 50 over time
gas
starport at 100 gas
stim
medivacs
build what you can without impacting medivacs
push when 2-3 medivacs stim and lots of marines

Thoughts?

Concerns I'd have are that I would probably respond to this in a way you'd find unpleasant.  I'd be able to scout 2 rax, because on any map I'd get in with my probe before you wall off (unless I get really unlucky).  So, I'd be expecting some sort of bioball push and would probably 4 gate with chargelots, stalkers and a token sentry or two.  Without marauders to slow down some of the zealots, it'd get bloody.  Of course, if you macro up faster than I do or do a pretty effect drop sniping something critical, there's every chance you'd still come out on top (HATES TERRANS).

I'll look at your replays later when I have some time. I like watching replays.

When's your orbital coming out with that?  What supply count are you pushing out at?  And like bhodi said, you might want to just start with a standard 1/1/1 and adjust based on what you scout and how you want to respond.  If someone sees two rax really early they're going to be on the alert for something coming.

[Arinon]

Any of rules of thumb for drone production on zerg?

I find it very easy to manage workers with protoss/terran as they get a dedicated structure and unit queue and you can't really overproduce.

Right now I'm trying to learn zerg orders and hotkeying and all that shit in AI and Co-Op matches before I embarrass myself in 1v1. I usually focus on major econ push and then forget about drones entirely once I realize I haven't spent enough money.  Can't seem to find a happy medium.  Doesn't hurt me doing what I'm doing now but I'm sure once I start matches I'll get punished hard for this.

[Rasix]

FUFUFUFUFFU Plat.  Oh, how I missed losing streaks.

Quite prophetic. I'm getting tuned by plat players. I played some lousy ones to get in.

[Rendakor]

I've gotten my 10 pool ling rush practiced pretty well, but if it doesn't finish the deal (particularly in 2v2), what should I go for? I always used to do lings into ultras but it seems to take much longer to tech to in SC2. I've tried using roaches a bit but they don't seem durable enough, and while the move-while-burrowed thing is interesting, they always seem to get detected very easily.

[Mosesandstick]

When I was playing Protoss I didn't play a rusher (Sorry hate cheese  ). I found it simple not to have a set build, but rather have a small set of paths I would take that depended on what I saw my opponents doing from my scouting. I think esp. with Protoss, the special abilities (chronal boost) give you a bit more flexibility in your build order and the ways in which you can respond.

[jakonovski]

I love rushing because it keeps the game to a more manageable size. The more units I manufacture, the larger my chance of losing becomes. It's all probably because my mp RTS experience is LoL and DoW2.

[Wolf]

btw, the Madfrog vs TLO showmatch from some blizzard thing in cologne last weekend was pretty awesome:

day1, bo3 - http://tv.esl.eu/de/vod/view/22299
day2, bo5 - http://tv.esl.eu/de/vod/view/22308/high

Day 2 is especially awesome. Commentary by demuslim btw 

And the big tournament coming up at gamescom will be amazing: Invited players. $15k prize pool, Day9 commentary. Wonder if I'll be able to catch some of them live.

A friend of mine does the local distribution of Razer and he's promised to get me a picture with Nada, who will be there for the "Hax Life" thing. I'll fanboi him pretty good :D

[K9]

I've gotten my 10 pool ling rush practiced pretty well, but if it doesn't finish the deal (particularly in 2v2), what should I go for? I always used to do lings into ultras but it seems to take much longer to tech to in SC2. I've tried using roaches a bit but they don't seem durable enough, and while the move-while-burrowed thing is interesting, they always seem to get detected very easily.

Mutas imho, and keep pumping out lings. Expand up and tech to brood lords. It depends a lot on the map and what your opponent does. Generally the only way to make a 6-pool or 10-pool work is to keep dumping all your minerals and larvae into zerglings once you start rushing and just try to supress your opponent until they die. A steady stream of zerglings should finish the deal. If your opponent breaks your rush without losing much of anything you need to change directions generally. The longer the rush distance the harder it is to make this work though, on maps like twilight fortress your opponent will probably have a zealot or two, or several marines up before your zerglings can reach them, and there you are just throwing resources away.

Banelings are another good choice.

[Malakili]

I've gotten my 10 pool ling rush practiced pretty well, but if it doesn't finish the deal (particularly in 2v2), what should I go for? I always used to do lings into ultras but it seems to take much longer to tech to in SC2. I've tried using roaches a bit but they don't seem durable enough, and while the move-while-burrowed thing is interesting, they always seem to get detected very easily.

ling muta and ling hydra are both popular builds.  10 pool isn't especially early though, so you aren't going to straight up beat a lot of people with it (which is fine, early pressure is good even when you don't win outright). My point being that you probably don't want to invest tons of minerals into lings unless it looks like you legitimately have a chance of winning.  Instead take the advantage of having map control to expand, out macro him with whatever mid game build you decide.

[jakonovski]

Played three more games, went 2-1 this time. First was against a Zerg who killed me with a Nydus worms, I took down two until he realized he should maybe not do it right next to my marines. Then he proceeded to overwhelm my ten marines plus Banshee spam with Hydralisks coming in the third worm. After that I had two terrans and decided to try some f13 wisdom. That medevac marine blob thing totally works in the practice league. So many ideas are dead in the water though, because of the damn rock piles. You can't even scout unless you're Zerg or build the Terran base upgrade (which is mandatory anyway for the MULE alone).

[K9]

The rock piles are a blessing and a curse aye. They give you a cushion to learn the tech trees which is good, but they don't prepare you for facing down rushes which is one of the harder elements of transitioning to the real leagues. They also promote turtling, and in a real game turtling will get you dead.

[jakonovski]

Also this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45-59VYDyjc&feature=player_embedded

[Malakili]

Also this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45-59VYDyjc&feature=player_embedded

If you are going for a standard build you are probably getting your first worker out of your IMMEDIATE area around 9-10 food, so you can just let him leave a little early to scout the edges of your base for proxy cheese.  If its a proxy pylon outside of your base, you first scout should always just check the normal places.  Occasionally cheese will beat you, but you can keep it to a minimum without too much trouble).

[kildorn]

Also this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45-59VYDyjc&feature=player_embedded

<3 <3

[Wolf]

man diamond is such a joke. I just played a terran, 20:10 in diamond, 20th in his division. He build his barracks and first supply in his base, not at his ramp. I just walked in at 30 supply with speedlings and killed him. WTH?

[Malakili]

man diamond is such a joke. I just played a terran, 20:10 in diamond, 20th in his division. He build his barracks and first supply in his base, not at his ramp. I just walked in at 30 supply with speedlings and killed him. WTH?

*shrugs* you don't NEED to wall in as terran.  I don't know what his plan was or anything and clearly he made mistakes if he lost to that, but at the same time, it doesn't make "diamond a joke."

[K9]

My impression is that as higher-level play is somewhat less rush-dominant, and people are generally better at scouting, a lot of high-level terrans don't wall off; at least with supply depots. Using Barracks+Factory is a lot stronger against banelings since depots are rather flimsy.

That said, I'm not sure what benefit there is to not walling off beside being able to get tanks and thors in and out of your base easier.

[Malakili]

My impression is that as higher-level play is somewhat less rush-dominant, and people are generally better at scouting, a lot of high-level terrans don't wall off; at least with supply depots. Using Barracks+Factory is a lot stronger against banelings since depots are rather flimsy.

That said, I'm not sure what benefit there is to not walling off beside being able to get tanks and thors in and out of your base easier.

Sometimes your depots can be extremely vulnerable and getting put under supply can really fuck with your build, especially early in the game.

[Wolf]

All pros wall in against zerg and toss. That's because they know that if they're playing someone that thinks they will die. It's not a matter of what you wall in with, you just don't leave your ramp open. 

And either diamomd is as much a joke as old platinum was or i've been getting all the scrubs. 5:0 since placement and i had one game that wasn't a walk over. Zvz of all things, got 7 pooled at close lt positions but recovered and won the ensuing baneling madness. 

[trias_e]

Yeah, gotta wall against Zerg I think, otherwise you are forced to have defensive bunker placement covering your mineral line which is usually too much of a waste of resources.  Not really against Toss however, I've certainly seen pros not wall against them.   

Low diamond is a huge difference in skill level from mid diamond which is a huge level in skill difference from high diamond.  I just hit an absolute brick wall at about 550 points in Diamond.  All of the sudden people got really good, and I've been Idra-raging ever since.