StarCraft II

[Malakili]

MLG Providence this weekend - this tournament is stacked and should be amazing.  Begins this Friday at 5:30pm Eastern.

Great lineup:

More info here: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Providence

I'll be watching!

[Fordel]

Or if you want something more then a bracket : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285789

For the actual viewing on the day of: http://www.teamliquid.net/mlg/



I'm hoping one of the Non-Koreans actually manages to take this, despite GSL having the bigger prize pool, I feel like the MLG's are the harder tournaments overall. Just so many games in such a short time, it's such a marathon.

[Fordel]

Tell me you saw that Naniwa vs. Nestea finals for the Global Invitational! (Online MLG Tourney with the finals on the first day of MLG providence).

[Malakili]

Tell me you saw that Naniwa vs. Nestea finals for the Global Invitational! (Online MLG Tourney with the finals on the first day of MLG providence).

Yea, saw it! 

[Fordel]

Ret vs. Hero


Archon Toilet.


 

[Azazel]

As a casual-at-best RTS player with no real interest in online competition and only any interest in the SP campaign, would people suggest that at 50% off it's worthwhile or not?

[Ratman_tf]

As a casual-at-best RTS player with no real interest in online competition and only any interest in the SP campaign, would people suggest that at 50% off it's worthwhile or not?

I would say so. I got a lot of mileage out of SP, both the campaign and AI games.

[sinij]

As a casual-at-best RTS player with no real interest in online competition and only any interest in the SP campaign, would people suggest that at 50% off it's worthwhile or not?

I'd say SC2 has about 10-15 hours of single player content. Have you played Skyrim already?

[Azazel]

No, I'll wait till Skyrim gets cheaper. SC2 is $30. Skyrim is $60 (if I get it steamgifted - it's otherwise $90.)

[Ingmar]

As a casual-at-best RTS player with no real interest in online competition and only any interest in the SP campaign, would people suggest that at 50% off it's worthwhile or not?

I'd say SC2 has about 10-15 hours of single player content. Have you played Skyrim already?

It is quite a lot more than that, if you are completionist about doing the achievements on different difficulty levels, etc.

Really I have my doubts that most people are going to even get through all 29 missions in 10-15 hours even just once through on normal, frankly. It definitely took me longer than that.

[Azazel]

I'm unlikely to catass the achievements or play at different difficulty levels. I'm time-poor and have many games to play through.

[Malakili]

I'm unlikely to catass the achievements or play at different difficulty levels. I'm time-poor and have many games to play through.

You're going to get a fairly old school feeling single player RTS campaign with about 30 missions, most of which are of the standard types "Hold out for this long, go kill the enemy base" type with some variations on those themes.   Also, there are a few which have you playing a hero type character and without the normal base building stuff.   The story is decent, but there are a few points of inconsistency with the original SC story if you care about that.   Also, keep in mind that even if you don't like competitive multiplayer there are still a lot of custom multiplayer games that are quite popular and aren't serious business at all (stuff that would've been called "Use Map Settings" maps in Starcraft 1).  Stuff like Starjeweled, various Tower Defense Maps, Auir Chef, etc, which can be a fun way to burn 20 minutes.

[Ingmar]

Also you can play most of them against the AI.

[lamaros]

I bought at release, played the single player through, tried MP and haven't played since.

I don't think it was anywhere near value at whatever I paid, but at 30$ it might be ok. Story is pants on head Metzen, though.

[Malakili]

Well, not sure how many people are still playing this around here, but this might be interesting to some either way:

http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/4025749/Upcoming_Changes_to_Match-Making_-06_04_2012#blog

We’ve been closely monitoring the quality of match-making since StarCraft II was released to make sure that the ladder offers the most exciting and finely tuned competitive experience possible. It’s been a great success, and because of the small skill gap between competing players, most games are tightly contested. While it’s awesome that most games are very close, this also means that both players need to constantly be at the top of their games, because the slightest mistake usually means defeat. While we think this is a fun way to play, we’re not sure if it’s fun for every match to be this way.

 As a one-season experiment, we will be relaxing the match-making settings slightly in Season 7 to introduce more variety into the ladder. In practical terms, this means you won't always be evenly matched with your opponent. You'll regularly compete with players at slightly higher or lower skill levels, to make the experience more well-rounded. These adjustments to the match-making system will also offer a chance to potentially get promoted more quickly, so stringing together wins versus more skilled opponents could potentially result in faster league promotions.

I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, I think they are trying to help people get over "ladder anxiety" by introducing some randomness.  But on the other hand, I don't get to play very many ladder games these days and the prospect of getting either roflstomped by someone a lot better, or getting a free easy win against someone a lot worse doesn't really make me want to play MORE.  They are right that you do have to be playing at the top of your game to play ladder, at least I can go in knowing what I am going to get.


To try and make this thread a little more friendly to the non ladder folks, I want to include something about Heart of the Swarm, but they haven't released any new information about it in ages :(

[luckton]

I read it as "Because everyone is playing other games and waiting for MoP, Diablo III, and Heart of the Swarm (fat chance of that coming out this year), we're relaxing the matchmaker so the 20 of you still playing A) Can still play and B) Don't have to wait forever in the queue.

But yeah, I can see how this move could potentially fuck newbs and such.  Goes with the territory, I suppose.

Also, I really would like for HotS to come out before the end of the world, and stuff.

[Malakili]

I read it as "Because everyone is playing other games and waiting for MoP, Diablo III, and Heart of the Swarm (fat chance of that coming out this year), we're relaxing the matchmaker so the 20 of you still playing A) Can still play and B) Don't have to wait forever in the queue.

But yeah, I can see how this move could potentially fuck newbs and such.  Goes with the territory, I suppose.

Also, I really would like for HotS to come out before the end of the world, and stuff.

My experience in the playing on ladder recently has only experienced a small increase in queue time.  We're talking like 5 seconds to 10 seconds at most, it is still bustling, even if it is greatly reduced from when the game was released.  They get endless complaints about the ladder being too stressful and I think this is an attempt to make it less so.   I don't think it will work./

As for Heart of the Swarm it is hard to say.  I wouldn't be surprised to see if by the end of the year, but it might be pushed back too.  I wonder if they are going to do an extended beta for it.  Its going to throw a major wrench into the pro scene, and regardless of how many people it will actually effect in terms of playing a lot of the continued attention the game gets is based on that.  But I imagine they will sell most copies based on the single player campaign. 

[Fordel]

This will be great for keeping people playing, but worse for actual competitiveness.


As long as they keep it so a player isn't getting stomped by a superior player 2+ games in a row or anything stupid, that will just kill ladder entirely.


-edit-

People love to farm, but hate to BE farmed.

[K9]

I can see the thinking behind this, but I don't think iot will do much to reduce ladder stress, you'll still have to be focused from the start because you won't know in advance what calibre of player you are facing. If anything facing the prospects of either getting curbstomped or playing a really tight game only to discover that your opponent has only gone with a single base, 8 SCVs and has rushed battlecruiser could increase frustration.

There are multiplayer modes where you can blow off steam, the custom maps and minigames, and the AI modes. The ladder will always be stressful though since it is based on competition.

[ezrast]

My brother gave this to me near release but I just started playing it yesterday. Looked up a simple roach build and creamed a few players in training, then went 3/5 in placement. Which the game decided was good enough to throw me into gold. Goddammit.

I don't even know my own race's tech tree.

[trias_e]

It's funny how that works.  If you can execute a simple build well you will stomp people that know more about the game but don't execute well.

As for Zerg, some tips.

Banelings are awesome (although not really used in ZvP).  Hydralisks are terrible (although they can have some use in ZvP).  Infestors are awesome in all matchups.  Brood Lords are awesome in all matchups.  Mutalisks are popular in all matchups but are very tricky to use.  Against Toss you can win easily at lower levels by doing nothing but massing mutas, assuming they don't rush you or you can hold off the rush.

15 hatch 14-16 pool against Terran, 14 pool/16 hatch against Protoss are standard opening builds for when you notice that your roach rush starts getting shut down.  In ZvZ there are a ton of openers and it is kind of rock paper scissorsy.

Always inject larva whenever you can.  I suggest you hotkey your queens and find a method of injecting that you like.  My method was 6 (queen hotkey), v (inject larva hotkey), click hatchery on minimap, but most people use backspace method or saved camera positions.  Backspace method:  http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=125725

Spreading creep is also super helpful and something worth practicing doing.  Also try to place your overlords in good positions around both your enemies base, the perimiter of your base, and spots on the map where low ground doesn't have vision where they can see army movement.

[Malakili]

Well, since this thread got bumped today anyway:

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/5366967/Developer_Update_with_Production_Director_Chris_Sigaty-5_7_2012#blog

In the midst of all this great community news, we want to announce some of the exciting things we’re working on this year for StarCraft II. Here's a list of some of the features we are planning to release at or around the launch of Heart of the Swarm:

Multiplayer resume from replay
Global Play
Multilanguage support
Clan/group system
Unranked matchmaking
Multiplayer replay viewing

 

This is going to address a good number of the problems people have with Battle.net 2.0.  Combined with the pretty good looking single player campaign, this looks like it is going to be a pretty awesome expansion.

[trias_e]

Now that's going to be a miracle patch.  Expansion.  Whatever.

Awesome <3

[slog]

It's funny how that works.  If you can execute a simple build well you will stomp people that know more about the game but don't execute well.

As for Zerg, some tips.

Banelings are awesome (although not really used in ZvP).  Hydralisks are terrible (although they can have some use in ZvP).  Infestors are awesome in all matchups.  Brood Lords are awesome in all matchups.  Mutalisks are popular in all matchups but are very tricky to use.  Against Toss you can win easily at lower levels by doing nothing but massing mutas, assuming they don't rush you or you can hold off the rush.

15 hatch 14-16 pool against Terran, 14 pool/16 hatch against Protoss are standard opening builds for when you notice that your roach rush starts getting shut down.  In ZvZ there are a ton of openers and it is kind of rock paper scissorsy.

Always inject larva whenever you can.  I suggest you hotkey your queens and find a method of injecting that you like.  My method was 6 (queen hotkey), v (inject larva hotkey), click hatchery on minimap, but most people use backspace method or saved camera positions.  Backspace method:  http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=125725

Spreading creep is also super helpful and something worth practicing doing.  Also try to place your overlords in good positions around both your enemies base, the perimiter of your base, and spots on the map where low ground doesn't have vision where they can see army movement.

I sort of agree.  I would watch Apollo's series for Zerg.  He recommends using a safe build of
15 Gas
15 Pool
15 O/L
Ling speed
Queen
 4 Lings
Expand.

It's a nice safe build that projects you from Cheese at the low levels.  Going Hatch first really isn't worth it until you reach Diamond.

Here is a link to the Videos.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0B7058D9D46661D1&feature=plcp

[Thrawn]

Now that's going to be a miracle patch.  Expansion.  Whatever.

Awesome <3

Agreed, I played all of the single player but gave up on multi-player in less than a week.  Might have to at least give it another look then.

[Ironwood]

Resume from replay ?

That's going to be some awesome chips.  Hey, could you resume from someone elses replay too ?

[Malakili]

Resume from replay ?

That's going to be some awesome chips.  Hey, could you resume from someone elses replay too ?

Ooh, I dunno, but that would be cool.   I could see getting together with some friends, each taking a side and seeing what each of us would have done in some pro games.  That'd be real neat if it is possible.  Even if it isn't possible, the feature is still going to be great for the pro scene (and spectators thereof).

[slog]

Also, Heart of the Swarm Beta next month?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=332877

[Thrawn]

Ooh, I dunno, but that would be cool.   I could see getting together with some friends, each taking a side and seeing what each of us would have done in some pro games.  That'd be real neat if it is possible.  Even if it isn't possible, the feature is still going to be great for the pro scene (and spectators thereof).

If it works that way it could be cool in reverse too, a stream where a "pro player" takes submissions and picks up a game from an obvious losing position and works out of it for a win.

[Malakili]

Ooh, I dunno, but that would be cool.   I could see getting together with some friends, each taking a side and seeing what each of us would have done in some pro games.  That'd be real neat if it is possible.  Even if it isn't possible, the feature is still going to be great for the pro scene (and spectators thereof).

If it works that way it could be cool in reverse too, a stream where a "pro player" takes submissions and picks up a game from an obvious losing position and works out of it for a win.

The problem is finding two pros, or something, because just resuming one side isn't going to do anything.  I like the idea though.

[slog]

I would sponsor a "random" tourney, then at 6 minutes into the game flip a coin.  Heads they keep playing, Tails, they resume from replay and switch sides.

[Ironwood]

God, we're really having fun with this idea, aren't we ?

[Fordel]

Resume from replays is desperately needed for the competitive side AND it will be great fun from the casual side.


So I predict it will be neutered and near useless on release. 

[Thrawn]

The problem is finding two pros, or something, because just resuming one side isn't going to do anything.  I like the idea though.

Well of course they would have to play against someone.  

I would sponsor a "random" tourney, then at 6 minutes into the game flip a coin.  Heads they keep playing, Tails, they resume from replay and switch sides.

Take the gamble, at 5:30 in your completely destroy your own base.  If you have to switch, easy gg, if you don't, oh well.

[slog]

Ironically, after about 1000+ games, I'm finally getting that I need to scout more as a Zerg.  For whatever reason, it never clicked in my head that I can make an Overseer AND queue his way points and then go do something else. 

It's amazing how much fun SC2 can be when you understand what the other guy is doing so you can mess with the timings.