iPhone 4 press conf

[Oban]

  but I can say that Verizon's LTE deployment methodology of splitting LTE for data usage and relying on CDMA for voice is so horrifically fucked up that an LTE based iPhone that would work on Verizon's hodgepodge will definitely not be coming out this year.  

Oh but if you want good coverage in the US, never plan on leaving the US, want an iPhone, and can switch to Verizon without too much of a penalty then this is the iPhone you want.

[Quinton]

but I can say that Verizon's LTE deployment methodology of splitting LTE for data usage and relying on CDMA for voice is so horrifically fucked up that an LTE based iPhone that would work on Verizon's hodgepodge will definitely not be coming out this year.  

It requires two different cellular modems operating at the same time.  It's insane.  Amazing that VZW got as many OEMs actually implementing it as they do, but I can't see Apple wasting the energy on it and doubt they have the board area to spare for it even if they wanted to.

[ghost]

I think I'll just wait for the mass rush of folks to Verizon and then my phone service will be better through AT&T.

[bhodi]

Anyone who buys the non-4G model is just asking for it. The damn thing comes out what, 5 months after the CDMA version?

[01101010]

Anyone who buys the non-4G model is just asking for it. The damn thing comes out what, 5 months after the CDMA version?

If you mean asking to not be punched in the nuts with a huge mark-up price on the new shiny, then I am your guy. I'll gladly take a discount on a generation older tech phone if it means forking over substantially less. But then again, I am not a big phone user anyway.

[ghost]

Now that I have my iPad I would love to just get a phone with the 10 numbers, a * and # key, and a talk button, old school style.  I don't do anything on my iPhone now anyway other than talk. 

[Oban]

I have a spare iPhone4 now and I am debating if I should buy one of these since having a proper handest would be nice at the office.




Etsy

[Selby]

I would totally buy one of those if I had an iPhone!  I miss my proper handset mic and speaker, just so much better than the mobile ones.

[MuffinMan]

That's a shitload of money for just a block to set the phone onto. Why not save a couple hundred dollars and just get a handset and extra charging cable?

[Kitsune]

The journalists at Verizon's release announcement deserve to be smacked for not one of them asking, "Okay, so what happens in June when the iPhone 5 comes out for AT&T?"  Is there gonna be a Verizon model at the same time?  Or is it going to be perpetually coming out six months after AT&T's model and Verizon people only have the option of the iPhone 4 until 2012?

[Oban]

That's a shitload of money for just a block to set the phone onto. Why not save a couple hundred dollars and just get a handset and extra charging cable?

The only problem with the handset you linked is that the iPhone slides all over the place if you put it down on a desk and move about while talking.

[tgr]

Apparently iphone4's aren't made for the normal norwegian weather, so doing radical things such as listening to music in your car during winter is at your own risk.

Background: some woman bought an iphone4 in october, and was driving to work one day in december (I think, the article doesn't really say), and she was playing music from her iphone to her car stereo. It was -12 outside when the phone "exploded", and because it was -12 outside apple decided it was her fault for using it below 0c, and that selling a phone which can't take sub-zero in a country where the normal climate means that sub-zero temperatures are common during large parts of the year. I'd understand apple saying "it might not work perfectly in sub-zero conditions", but "it'll blow up and we won't fix it if there's even a chance it might've been below 0c"? Not really.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/01/11/frozen_iphone/

[Jeff Kelly]

The journalists at Verizon's release announcement deserve to be smacked for not one of them asking, "Okay, so what happens in June when the iPhone 5 comes out for AT&T?"  Is there gonna be a Verizon model at the same time?  Or is it going to be perpetually coming out six months after AT&T's model and Verizon people only have the option of the iPhone 4 until 2012?

Oh, they did ask, they just didn't get an answer. Wouldn't make much sense either because Verizon wants business now and doesn't need customers holding off for the iPhone 5 in June.

[Jeff Kelly]

Apparently iphone4's aren't made for the normal norwegian weather, so doing radical things such as listening to music in your car during winter is at your own risk.

Background: some woman bought an iphone4 in october, and was driving to work one day in december (I think, the article doesn't really say), and she was playing music from her iphone to her car stereo. It was -12 outside when the phone "exploded", and because it was -12 outside apple decided it was her fault for using it below 0c, and that selling a phone which can't take sub-zero in a country where the normal climate means that sub-zero temperatures are common during large parts of the year. I'd understand apple saying "it might not work perfectly in sub-zero conditions", but "it'll blow up and we won't fix it if there's even a chance it might've been below 0c"? Not really.

Here's an insight. No piece of consumer electronic equipment is built for that kind of weather. Standard batteries and recharchables are certified for 0° C to 40°C and a maximum humidity of 75%. Standard electronic components (which includes everything, even resistors and capacitors) are certified from -10°C to +45 °C and a maximum humidity of 75%.

Even Nokia which should have similar weather conditions in Sweden only certify their handsets up to -10°C and have a disclaimer in their manuals that states that the battery might suffer if the handset is exposed to minus temperatures for a certain amount of time.

The reason? Components which are certified for a broader temperature range (e.g. -30°C to + 65°C) are more expensive and there are some components that you simply won't get (batteries, for example because the chemical reaction simply stops at certain temperatures). Even your car only certifiably works inside a certain temperature range (and I'm not talking about the fuel freezing in the tank).

Sucks, yes but it's as far as I know industry standard to design personal consumer electronics for a temperature range that only barely covers minus degress, since the device is usually not directly exposed to those temperatures for prolonged periods of time anyway (you usually keep it in a bag or pocket or on your body where the device is not directly exposed to those temperatures, at least in theory).

Most other manufacturers probably wouldn't cover that as part of their warranty either.

[tgr]

I understand the whole "batteries won't last long in sub-zero conditions" thing because of the chemical reactions not working well at that temperature, but are you really saying that a phone which costs at least 500 USD without contract (it seems) should be expected to "blow up" just because it might have gone below zero for a bit?

The way I interpret it, she got out of her apartment, into her car, plugged the iphone into the stereo system and drove long enough that she felt the air in the car had a temperature of 20c. I realize this doesn't mean whereever the iphone was positioned was at 20c, but that sounds like a pretty normal trip to/from work to me during the winter.

Hell, me and a friend was running around on Dovre in Norway, trying to photograph a few musk oxes, and the only problem he had with his cellphone (an android I think) was that he had to heat the battery up a bit because it was -22c and we were walking around for 3-4 hours. My cell (3-4 years old or older) had absolutely no issue whatsoever, just like the D300's we had with us, which aren't certified below 0c either.

vOv

[Merusk]

If it exploded as she said, I'd suspect the phone was in the car overnight not just the few minutes it takes to warm up the automobile. 

[NiX]

If it exploded as she said, I'd suspect the phone was in the car overnight not just the few minutes it takes to warm up the automobile. 

This. I've been walking to work in anywhere from -5 to -20 C weather, listening to music and my iPhone has no issues. There's no doubt in my mind that she did something else. I can see there being issues if she left it in the car attached to the charger and when the phone went from freezing cold to being charged, shit just went bad.

[Lantyssa]

Or maybe it was a defective battery and the company is using it as an easy way to not replace the phone, because you never trust the consumer, right?

[naum]

At the other extreme, here in Arizona, if you leave iPad/iPhone in an automobile parked in ~105+ degree heat, the device simply will not operate, except to give you a display message that the device is too hot.

[Jeff Kelly]

Without resorting to complex technical explanations let me just say that most electrical components are very susceptible to temperature. Most characteristics of such components are only stable at certain temperature ranges or might vary a lot if temepratures get too hot/too cold.

Which doesn't necessarily mean, that the device will fail catastrophically but a resistor or capacitor for example might have more resistance/capacitance above certain temperatures than it has below them. Since modern consumer electronics devices are complex things with hundreds of individual components this might create a cascading effect (if each component deviates a few %, the combination might create a huge deviation) that will let the device fail or might cause it to operate outside of the certified specifications. This is most often a problem with wireless devices, where you need to certify that you will always adhere to specs and never produce erroneous transmissions.

Most often that means that the device simply switches off when the temperature gets outside the specified range. Batteries however are very susceptible to temperature. Firstly because the chemical reaction simply stops below certain temperatures or increases above certain temps but also because the electrolyte in the battery (which is a liquid) might actually freeze or expand due too cold or heat and may cause the battery to rupture (or even explode due to short circuiting it).

If you need to operate your device in sub zero or tropical conditions you'd need to switch to different chemical composition or employ other measures (like heating the device).

As far as this case is concerned I'm with NiX. Two or three hours at those conditions won't cause the device to fail or explode. Leaving it in the cold car until the electrolyte in the battery freezes however would.

[tgr]

I found a much better article than the one I initially found (that was in norwegian, and I see that it said a little bit more than the english one I linked, but running it through google translate didn't work very well), in http://www.mobilen.no/wip4/iphone-taaler-ikke-kulde/d.epl?id=49206

It doesn't say she took the phone with her into the car, so it's one possible theory, but the details I see in that article is that it was -12c when she started, and she'd been driving for 45 minutes when the rear glass broke. It does also say, however, that if it's being operated outside of its normal temperature parameters, then that can lead to a temporary reduction in battery capacity or the phone temporarily not work as it should. It doesn't say anything about the glass breaking.

However, if we assume that she left it in the car (I kind of doubt this, as most norwegians that age tend to be very attached to their cellphone, but I'm not going to discount this), wouldn't that mean that the phone itself would more or less stop working in its entirety, if f.ex the battery expanded? I've no idea where the battery is, but if what you say about the battery expanding could happen without actually ruining the battery fully (so the phone could appear to still work), then that's one viable theory.

The glass. What could've caused that thumbprint shape?:

[Quinton]

I'd be interested in seeing the phone with the rear plate removed (should be easy enough to determine if the battery ruptured/exploded by visual inspection), but that breakage pattern certainly doesn't look very "omg battery asploded" to me...

[Hawkbit]

Not the same thing, I know, I know, but....  I used to work for a large-ish company that made notebook computers.  Obviously we bought parts from overseas manufacturers and assembled the systems here in the states.  One of the jobs I grew into was determining how LCD screens were broken and assessing a cost/estimate to the customer.  I've done lots and lots of screen break tests on LCDs to find patterns of damage so that we could determine the best likely cause of damage.  Closing a pencil in the notebook was one of my favorites.  :)

If the iPhone glass breaks anything like the glass of a TFT, then that was impact damage on the iPhone.  There's an outside shot it was damage from rapid temperature change, but the pattern of glass fracture is of impact.  Temperature change glass breaks somewhat uniformly with no obvious impact point. 

Again, take with a grain of salt because those are different glass structures, but I'd put a dollar on that being impact. 

Also, of note, our company had a couple of issues with malfunction of units in extreme low temps and it usually affected the battery capacity permanently, but I've never seen one cause damage to the LCD before.  Our company had a warranty clause regarding extreme temps, too. 

[Surlyboi]

I'd be interested in seeing the phone with the rear plate removed (should be easy enough to determine if the battery ruptured/exploded by visual inspection), but that breakage pattern certainly doesn't look very "omg battery asploded" to me...

The battery would be on the top in that picture (the left hand side when looking at the back of the phone.)

[Oban]

Bet she drives a Saab and dropped it on her key.

[01101010]

http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/01/12/5824256-jon-stewart-says-it-all-about-the-verizon-iphone

Stewart on Verizon's snag.

[Merusk]

Or maybe it was a defective battery and the company is using it as an easy way to not replace the phone, because you never trust the consumer, right?

You've done troubleshooting and tech support.  How often was it the software or hardware vs the user.  Anything high tech or high maintenance with a rare or single incidence of occurrence, my first thought is always user error. 

[Murgos]

It's an easy enough test.  Put an iPhone 4 in -30 degrees for a day and see what happens.  I'm sure Apple's engineers did it the minute they heard about the story and any tech mag or website could do it if they felt like it.  So, why is no one talking about how their phones assploded?

Because it doesn't happen.

[Lantyssa]

You've done troubleshooting and tech support.  How often was it the software or hardware vs the user.  Anything high tech or high maintenance with a rare or single incidence of occurrence, my first thought is always user error. 

Depends upon the call.  If it involves "my computer blew up" I generally assume hardware until I see the remains of firecrackers littered about the case.

[SnakeCharmer]

Again, take with a grain of salt because those are different glass structures, but I'd put a dollar on that being impact. 

Looks like she put it in her pocket with her keys and sat down.  Because that's near exactly what my 3 day old Galaxy S looked like after I put it and keys in the same pocket without thinking then squatted down to pick up my kid.   

[MahrinSkel]

Especially since the screen is apparently still working.  I can't imagine anything the battery could do that would shatter the faceplate glass without reducing the display to random Rorschach blots.

--Dave

[ghost]

iPhone Nano is on the way

I haven't been excited about any of Apple's recent offerings, including the iPad, but this is something I would really support.  The iPhone and it's ilk have been losing their luster for my own personal use as I've moved into using the iPad more. 

"One of the people, who saw a prototype of a new iPhone several months ago, said the new device is intended to be sold alongside the current line of iPhones and would be about half the size of the iPhone 4. The phone, one of its codenames is N97, would be available to mobile carriers at about half the price of Apple's main line of iPhones, the person said."

[Ingmar]

A half size iPhone seems like it would pretty much require an external peripheral to actually use it as a phone, unless you have a really, really tiny head. Sounds like a pain in the ass to me.

[ghost]

There's phones that size in use already.  I used to have a Sony that was about half the size of an iPhone and it is still the best phone I've every had.  It had great reception and clarity. 

[Kitsune]

Yeah, phones like the Palm Pre are pretty damn tiny when the keyboard isn't slid out.  A smaller iphone could be doable.  But in all honesty I'd prefer the larger form factor of the current size.  A teensy iphone would be fine for basic phone and calendar stuff like the functions on the Pre, but sorta awful for typing and games, which get much easier to handle with a larger touch surface.

Additionally, Verizon was fucking the new iphone users pretty hard.  I checked on what it would cost to get an iphone as a current Verizon subscriber, and my monthly rates would've increased by $30 over what I'm paying now, without the $20 tethering feature for anyone dumb enough to try to get a good net connection for their laptop off Verizon's shitty 3G speeds.  I'm already using a smartphone on my current plan, with the usual extra monthly fee for the internet access, for about $80 a month.  There was no excuse whatsoever for them to offer me the same plan for $110 a month just because their voice waves were going to an iphone instead of a Palm Pro.