Walking Dead

[CmdrSlack]

I didn't know how the show would end and hadn't actually known it was the half-season finale, so the big dramatic ending really did the trick for me.

I'm looking forward to seeing Shane's further descent into madness. The woman he is in love with is going to have his baby, and he's supposed to pretend it's not happening and say congratulations to some other guy instead? But although I feel sorry for him, I do see him as a villain. I guess that depends on whether you believe he really had to sacrifice Otis.

I'm going to use the break in the show to catch up on the comics, which I have been neglecting.

There is a new TPB out if you are having trouble finding back issues. The only thing that I hate about the TPBs is that some of the fan mail is fun to read, in particular when Kirkman does shit to well-loved characters.

[Mrbloodworth]

I like dale, Clearly, its not that he wants to get in her pants, its that she and her sister were like daughters to him. If I'm not mistaken, they spent much time together before they even joined the group. I have not read the comics.

[Ironwood]

It Shows.

[Mrbloodworth]

I didn't know it was a prerequisite to comment on the TV show. A TV show that has apparently already diverged in a number of places from the comics. When I watch the show all I see is dale concerned for her safety.

[Ironwood]

I see a lonely guy desperate for muff.

[Mrbloodworth]

Yes, after losing his wife, I'm sure that's the first thing he is looking for after meeting them shortly after.

[HaemishM]

Yes, after loosing his wife, I'm sure that's the first thing he is looking for after meeting them shortly after.

Are you calling Dale's wife a whore? 

[Mrbloodworth]

Heh, fixed.

[Ironwood]

Yes, after losing his wife, I'm sure that's the first thing he is looking for after meeting them shortly after.

You're right, there's no record of someone losing a partner and fucking someone straight after in the show.

Unless you mean Shane and Lori.

Grief is a great place for a fuck.

[Mrbloodworth]

I'm not really disputing that. I'm just describing what I see when I watch the show. I see dale as more concerned for his "daughter". YMMV. It's great you guys have read the comics, but the show does not give me this impression.

[Nevermore]

You're right, there's no record of someone losing a partner and fucking someone straight after in the show.

Unless you mean Shane and Lori.

Grief is a great place for a fuck.

In fairness, your perception might be colored by what you know from the comic.

[Evildrider]

The whole thing with Dale and Andrea seems more to be Father/Daughter on the TV show then how it was in the comics.  In the comics Andrea and her sister were both shacking up with Dale so that he wouldn't throw them out.

[Numtini]

I see Dale as being romantically interested in Andrea, but in a more sincere and less sexualized way than has been suggested here. But if he was acting to me like he is to her, no, father would not be the vibe.

[angry.bob]

I think the TV Dale/Andrea relationship is a lot closer to Father/Daughter than anything else. I agree that he occasionaly acts in ways that give off a wierd, non-paternal vibe, but I think that's more TV Dales wierd, innappropriate boundary/interference/involvement issues he seems to have with everyone in general.

[Tebonas]

We could find a compromise and say he gives off that creepy father figure that wants to diddle his daughter vibe.

[Ironwood]

The whole thing with Dale and Andrea seems more to be Father/Daughter on the TV show then how it was in the comics.  In the comics Andrea and her sister were both shacking up with Dale so that he wouldn't throw them out.

What ?

No they weren't.

[Ironwood]

You're right, there's no record of someone losing a partner and fucking someone straight after in the show.

Unless you mean Shane and Lori.

Grief is a great place for a fuck.

In fairness, your perception might be colored by what you know from the comic.

Jesus fucking Christ :

The Woman who got beaten every day of her life is chasing Daryl.

Dale is chasing Andrea.

Shane is chasing everything.

Rick is chasing sanity.

Asian is chasing hotness.

Are you people even watching the same fucking show I am ?  This is how humans act near death.  It's built into our fucking genes.  I'm not sure why I'm arguing, since some here missed the point of the final episode anyway, (Hint, Shane totally froze because he confronted what Hershel had been talking about for 4 episodes, in that it ain't easy when it's someone you know, and Rick, despite all the doubts everyone's been sowing, was the only one who could actually step up because he's The Leader and that's what it's all about), but humans fuck near death.  They make new attachments when the old ones are gone.

For reference, though, it was Andrea who was interested in Dale in the comics and she made the first move.  The comics Dale was UTTERLY SHOCKED.  There's not really that much crossover for me to be blinded by my perceptions here.  In the show, Dale is being waaaaay overprotective of Andrea in particular because he's interested.  He doesn't want to be and he doesn't think much of himself because of it, but he IS.  For everyone else it's, 'well it's none of my business'.  Except when it's her and he almost gets himself killed TWICE telling Shane he's a cunt because he's jealous.


I'm gonna go back to watching my version.  It seems to be more interesting.

 

[Velorath]

I think the scene at the end of the finale was meant to show that Rick is the guy that is going to take all the hard shit upon himself.  I don't really buy the stuff about it showing Shane freezing up though.  We've seen him kill a living, non-zombie, human being, and he's never shown as being particularly close to Sophia.  In fact he's pretty much the first one to write her off, and suggest they move on.  It doesn't really fit with what they've done with the character to have that being something that would cause him to freeze up.  That scene was entirely about Rick in my opinion.

[Ratman_tf]

I think the scene at the end of the finale was meant to show that Rick is the guy that is going to take all the hard shit upon himself.  I don't really buy the stuff about it showing Shane freezing up though.  We've seen him kill a living, non-zombie, human being, and he's never shown as being particularly close to Sophia.  In fact he's pretty much the first one to write her off, and suggest they move on.  It doesn't really fit with what they've done with the character to have that being something that would cause him to freeze up.  That scene was entirely about Rick in my opinion.

It's not that he couldn't shoot a walker, it's that he couldn't shoot ZombieSophia in front of her mother.

[Tannhauser]

Dale thinks he's the Gandalf of this Fellowship and he keeps getting shocked when Andrea, Shane and others buck him and his decisions.

Hmm now that I think about it...

Rick=Aragorn
Shane=Boromir
Daryl=Legolas
Dale=Gandalf
Glen=Frodo
T-Dog=Gimli
Carl=The Ring
Lori, Andrea, Sophia's Mom=Merry, Pip, Sam

[Velorath]

I think the scene at the end of the finale was meant to show that Rick is the guy that is going to take all the hard shit upon himself.  I don't really buy the stuff about it showing Shane freezing up though.  We've seen him kill a living, non-zombie, human being, and he's never shown as being particularly close to Sophia.  In fact he's pretty much the first one to write her off, and suggest they move on.  It doesn't really fit with what they've done with the character to have that being something that would cause him to freeze up.  That scene was entirely about Rick in my opinion.

It's not that he couldn't shoot a walker, it's that he couldn't shoot ZombieSophia in front of her mother.

Why not?  Everything they've shown us about Shane this season has indicated that this sort of thing would not be a problem for him.  He's willing to sacrifice a living person, and he doesn't have any emotional connection to Sophia or Carol.  It would be very odd for a situation like this to cause Shane to freeze up.  If it was a zombie Lori, Carl, or even Andrea maybe I could see it, but for the writers to drawn a line and say that this is the situation that Shane can't handle and Rick can wouldn't really make sense.

[Ironwood]

Because it was all talk.  He still wants the respect of the group.  Any person who believed any of the shit that Shane's come out with would have lit out ages ago.

He's a nutjob, but not a strong one.  He's a very weak man who thinks Hard choices are easy.  There's only one bloke who not only understands, but can act on it.

[Numtini]

Because it was all talk.  He still wants the respect of the group.  Any person who believed any of the shit that Shane's come out with would have lit out ages ago.

He's a nutjob, but not a strong one.  He's a very weak man who thinks Hard choices are easy.  There's only one bloke who not only understands, but can act on it.

I have the exact same take on the character.

[Xanthippe]

I'm not really disputing that. I'm just describing what I see when I watch the show. I see dale as more concerned for his "daughter". YMMV. It's great you guys have read the comics, but the show does not give me this impression.

I haven't read the comics, but I've met a lot of Dales.

[HaemishM]

Because it was all talk.  He still wants the respect of the group.  Any person who believed any of the shit that Shane's come out with would have lit out ages ago.

He's a nutjob, but not a strong one.  He's a very weak man who thinks Hard choices are easy.  There's only one bloke who not only understands, but can act on it.

I have the exact same take on the character.

Ditto. Shane has fallen into the survivalist bullshit ethos that Daryl's brother was selling, only without the overt racism. Daryl, meanwhile, is finding some humanity he was never exposed to before. Rick is having to find the strength to make horrible moral decisions in the face of a world where morals are all too easily forgotten (see Shane). They are all seeking connections - Shane is seeking to be the hero while Rick is trying to maintain what family connections he can.

[Evildrider]

The whole thing with Dale and Andrea seems more to be Father/Daughter on the TV show then how it was in the comics.  In the comics Andrea and her sister were both shacking up with Dale so that he wouldn't throw them out.

What ?

No they weren't.

In the comics Andrea mentions to Rick that Amy and Andrea "charmed" Dale so that they would be able to stay with them in the RV.  It isn't til after Amy dies that her feelings turn into love for Dale.

[devildog]

Not to be Mr. Negative here, but bullshit survivalist ethos is a bad way of describing what version of tactics you would be using at this point in the show. Maybe it is just me, but i think the people that couldn't change the oil in their car or had never touched a weapon might be behind the curve compared to rednecks and survivalists here. I'm not condoning the way Shane acts, in fact i think he's a poser, but i also think this is about the saddest group of survivors i have ever seen in a movie/show. If there are worse they aren't coming to mind. I'm not saying i would be bad ass zombie killer numero uno, but i would be hoping to meet up with some more capable people if that was possible.

If i was a white collar worker or a housewife i wouldn't be thinking: Hey, shit is going down and it's getting bad, i better find a couple of deputies. Daryl is about the only one with "survival skills". I guess it could be worse, they could meet up with Todd and his dad just back from gold mining in Alaska.

[Threash]

It's like we are not even the same species.  Dale is a male, Andrea is a hot young piece of ass.  If his dick works the "Father figure" idea never even crossed his mind.

[Velorath]

Because it was all talk.  He still wants the respect of the group.  Any person who believed any of the shit that Shane's come out with would have lit out ages ago.

He's a nutjob, but not a strong one.  He's a very weak man who thinks Hard choices are easy.  There's only one bloke who not only understands, but can act on it.

Again, we've seen him essentially murder someone to save himself and/or Carl.  That's not really talk.  There is zero reason to believe that he could do that and yet would hesitate to shoot zombie Sophia.  Hell, Andrea shot her own sister who had turned.  I don't really see any reason why she couldn't have done it either.  If the point of the scene was that all these characters froze when it came down to shooting someone they know, I think that's poorly written and actually ignores what they've established about some of these characters in order to make Rick look more important.  Like I said though, I don't think it was about them, I think it was about Rick choosing to take it upon himself so the others don't have to.

[Ratman_tf]

Not to be Mr. Negative here, but bullshit survivalist ethos is a bad way of describing what version of tactics you would be using at this point in the show. Maybe it is just me, but i think the people that couldn't change the oil in their car or had never touched a weapon might be behind the curve compared to rednecks and survivalists here. I'm not condoning the way Shane acts, in fact i think he's a poser, but i also think this is about the saddest group of survivors i have ever seen in a movie/show. If there are worse they aren't coming to mind. I'm not saying i would be bad ass zombie killer numero uno, but i would be hoping to meet up with some more capable people if that was possible.

Exactly. What do you do when you're saddled with "normal" people in your zombie survival group? The survivors are going to be messed up in the fucking head, and that's what they're trying to show in the series. I pity the Shane character. He got stuffed into the role of "The other guy" when Rick came back, and that seems to have started him on his path to being a royal douchebag.

The bullshit drama is what's going to get people killed now, and no one's immune to it.

[Numtini]

See the whole theme of the zombie apocalypse genre going back to the original Johnny's got the keys is once you give into that survivalist mentality, you're just a zombie with a heart that thumps.

[Evildrider]

The bullshit drama is what's going to get people killed now, and no one's immune to it.

I wish it was more like the comics when it comes to the amount of people that get killed off.

[Ironwood]

Again, we've seen him essentially murder someone to save himself and/or Carl.  That's not really talk.  There is zero reason to believe that he could do that and yet would hesitate to shoot zombie Sophia.  Hell, Andrea shot her own sister who had turned.  I don't really see any reason why she couldn't have done it either.  If the point of the scene was that all these characters froze when it came down to shooting someone they know, I think that's poorly written and actually ignores what they've established about some of these characters in order to make Rick look more important.  Like I said though, I don't think it was about them, I think it was about Rick choosing to take it upon himself so the others don't have to.

He fucked over someone to save his own skin when no-one else was around.  This isn't hard.  Andrea shot her own sister.  It was her right and she's strong.  Could she have taken over and shot Sophia ?  Yes, probably.  But it wasn't her place.  I think you're utterly correct in your last line - which agrees with my point.  That's what leaders do.  That's how group dynamics work. 

Rick did it because her mother never could.

Which is a seperate argument from what's going on with Shane.  Ultimately, he's not a strong enough person to take Rick's role.  And he keeps trying.

Think MacBeth.

[Threash]

Andrea also took several hours to shoot her sister and still did it at the last second before she got chomped.

[TheWalrus]

Shane is W. He talks a swell game, but ultimately everyone else pays the price for his horseshit.