Red Dead: Redemption a.k.a. How The West Was Fun

[Litigator]

You can herd cattle?

There are a couple of herding missions in the early part of the story, and there's an elaborate herding tutorial.  I assume it's going to come back later as a minigame, because any elaborate mission mechanic always comes back later as a minigame.

[LK]

So, you don't know.

[NiX]

There's no real reason why you learned to herd cattle. It shows up again at the end of the game, but in between it's no where to be seen.

[lesion]

It's there to instill a deep, passionate hatred of cows. I named this here train Mr. McMeatblender.

[rattran]

Heh, I did the same with a herd of buffalo.
Also, this is the only game that keeps locking up my ps3. Got invited to a multiplayer, tried to join, lockup. Tried to sit in the high stakes table without putting on my sharp suit, lockup. Like have to switch off the ps3 from behind level of lockup. Never had that before.

[Tebonas]

No, you've missed my point entirely and are completely incorrect. My comment is based on the game design principle of "But is it Fun?" I know several companies will attempt to refine mechanics like this to make them fun for the player, and if they are unable to do so, they scrap them. Shitty minigames are shitty. Well done minigames are worthwhile. As I stated, I have not played any in RDR besides the Horseshoes, and asked others about GTA4 (since I also have not played that for more than 10 mins)

I don't think there is any ONE thing that is fun to everyone. The only people knowing if their minigames are fun to enough people to warrant having them are the developers at Rockstar. Since they sell a shitloat of their games they do something right. Maybe most people buy their games despite their minigames, but I suspect the number of people who don't buy it because of them tends toward zero. So at worst its a null sum game, at best it (sorry to repeat myself) helps to make the sandbox more immersive. And sandboxes are kind of Rock Stars big thing.

Nice to see you've changed your point entirely from "we ROLEPLAYERS" to "I had to learn a second language first, I'm so good". My retort pretty much remains akin to: Dont try pulling that "I'm a roleplayer, so my perspectives trump yours" shit with me, but I'll add a nice little "/golfclap to your having learned a second language pretty fluently." Which is far more normal in continental Europe than the rarity it is in places like the US, anyway.

What the fuck? How can you such an innocent joke trigger your berserk button? Is there something I'm missing? Calm down, I'll try to reiterate the point without saying something that might set you off.

The real point (perceived grandstanding aside) is that useless side quests (with or without tangible awards) have been a tool of the trade in computer games for many years now. They have always been the things that set good worlds apart from streamlined pieces of shit were you walk from point A to point B. I used roleplaying games as an example because those were the earliest instances of world building. Whole towns you wouldn't find if you kept to the main storyline, heck even whole continents. Even specific Minigames you could ignore if you didn't mind losing the additional rewards (as early as Hillsfar in 1989, maybe even earlier).

I don't know what triggered you, but I apologize for that. Optional padding in a game (contrary to mandatory timesinks) is always a good thing. It gives choices. Choices are good in games. And thus my question if those minigames are optional in RDD. Because I wouldn't play it if they were annoying and weren't skipable.

[Azazel]

2 quotes.  Such a mighty brucing. 

Heh. I had more but decided to delete them. Forgot to take out that line. Ah well. 

[Azazel]

I don't know.  To some people, all minigames are shitty.  Other people seem to love shitty minigames; how else can you explain bestselling Wii games and iPhone apps that are nothing but shitty minigames?

It really depends on how well they're done. To use an extreme example, Mario Party has some pretty good minigames.

The idea of these open world games is that there's a bunch of stuff you can do if you choose to ignore the storyline for a while.  You can be a bounty hunter.  You can be a night-watchman at McFarlane Ranch.  You can herd cows.  You can go out in the woods and pick flowers and shoot up the wildlife.  You can play cards or throw horseshoes with a bunch of dipshits in the the towns.  A subset of the market for these open world games really likes having a bunch of dumb shit to do, and the presence of this dumb shit materially alters the value of the game to these people, especially those who measure value in hours of gameplay.

Side-missions always lack the polish and variety of the main quest, though.

Of course, but sometimes it can be alright. I've been hunting and gathering herbs (not sure why, herbs appear to be next to worthless to sell), and trying to get the Journal challenges done.

A horse deed is listed as a consumable object in your satchel, but it's not consumed when used.  It spawns a horse of the type described in the deed, which you automatically own.  So if you have a good horse, and it dies, you don't have to go out and break another good horse to replace it if you bought a deed.

I think I'm even more confused now. I had the golden brown horse from the horsebreaking mission early on with the girl (Bonnie?). It got shot at one point yesterday, though. But seemed to be the same horse when I whistled for it awhile later. After that, I bought a deed for another (brown) horse that cost me $750, which I'm now using. Can you have mutiple horse deeds and swap the various horses in and out by "activating" one deed or another?

There's no real reason why you learned to herd cattle. It shows up again at the end of the game, but in between it's no where to be seen.

Herding horses seems to use the same mechanics though, and since it comes in pretty early, I thought it might be in there to get people practicing their finer horseriding skills.

I don't think there is any ONE thing that is fun to everyone. The only people knowing if their minigames are fun to enough people to warrant having them are the developers at Rockstar. Since they sell a shitloat of their games they do something right. Maybe most people buy their games despite their minigames, but I suspect the number of people who don't buy it because of them tends toward zero. So at worst its a null sum game, at best it (sorry to repeat myself) helps to make the sandbox more immersive. And sandboxes are kind of Rock Stars big thing.

I agree with your first statement - what I was saying in my earlier post was that Rockstar seem to have gotten to a cetain point of popularity where their GTA games will attract nothing but fellatio and flowers when it comes to reviews, and people will just buy them en masse regardless of elements in them thay may actually suck. As in, the overallpackage may be really bloody good, but laced with a number of shitty aspects, which would be pointed out more noticably with anyone else's games. That's why I brought up MW2/IW earlier as well. MW2 has quite a few issues, yet it sold like hot cakes, and most all the reviews were glowing blowjobs. Anything Nintendo puts out with Mario, Link or Samus in it is another example.

If these things happen to suck but don't have gameplay effects at all besides cosmetic ones, that's fine, but when something that is a bit crap is required for a gameplay element, then it's annoying. Even if it's not from "the main quest".

What the fuck? How can you such an innocent joke trigger your berserk button? Is there something I'm missing? Calm down, I'll try to reiterate the point without saying something that might set you off.

The real point (perceived grandstanding aside) is that useless side quests (with or without tangible awards) have been a tool of the trade in computer games for many years now. They have always been the things that set good worlds apart from streamlined pieces of shit were you walk from point A to point B. I used roleplaying games as an example because those were the earliest instances of world building. Whole towns you wouldn't find if you kept to the main storyline, heck even whole continents. Even specific Minigames you could ignore if you didn't mind losing the additional rewards (as early as Hillsfar in 1989, maybe even earlier).

I don't know what triggered you, but I apologize for that. Optional padding in a game (contrary to mandatory timesinks) is always a good thing. It gives choices. Choices are good in games. And thus my question if those minigames are optional in RDD. Because I wouldn't play it if they were annoying and weren't skipable.

Well, the first thing was the "we roleplayers" (know more than you peasant) thing, which just made me think "fuck off, wanker". Then the second language thing was just like grandstanding, and you know, when you live in a place like where I do, it's just normal for people to be bilingual and noone cares or makes a big deal about themselves for it. Aside from myself, the three people in my house right now (wife and 2 friends who just arrived to go get some Friday night dinner) are all bilingual. You know, it's no big deal and noone gives a shit or says "look at how awesome I am for knowing two languages". If that all makes sense to you.
 

Anyway, I have no probem with sidequests, or minigames, or any of that stuff. It's just annoying to have badly-designed ones bolted on with gameplay effects outside of just playing them (or cosmetic/ingame money making). Anyway, gotta go eat Vietmanese now. ciao.


edit - unfucked the quote mess a bit.

[Tebonas]

Wow, you really try to make this into a big thing between us, do you? Its not like I'm deadly serious all the time, especially the smiley in the second posting should have been a clue, added because you seemingly took the previous posting as a call to arms. Obviously diffusion with light humor doesn't work. Neither does apologizing. Would you really be more comfortable with a vendetta over this? Because last day of work before the holiday, and me not hating you all that much, I wouldn't.

[01101010]

Not to stray too far from the bitchy slapfest that seems to be happening....

I played for about two hours last night and half that time was playing poker that I mistakenly sat down at the table in Thieves Landing. I fucking hate minigames in general, but god damn I can't seem to manage to pull myself away from playing poker.

::and on a side note: insta-death from accidently galloping into a river is    I knew about it, but jesus, is it THAT hard to put into a game?

[Sparky]

You can quit poker and cash out your chips at any time.  No need to bust everyone for a payout.

[palmer_eldritch]

I met an opium dealer so I tied him up and left him on a rail track and watched him go squish - and for that I lost honour??

Speaking of horses - once I found what appeared to be a great horse and chased him over half the map. When I finally lassoed him he ran into the river and dragged me in with him, so we both drowned.

[NiX]

I met an opium dealer so I tied him up and left him on a rail track and watched him go squish - and for that I lost honour??

Speaking of horses - once I found what appeared to be a great horse and chased him over half the map. When I finally lassoed him he ran into the river and dragged me in with him, so we both drowned.

I shot him and lost honor. Confused me.

Also, awesome.

[Xanthippe]

Heh, I did the same with a herd of buffalo.
Also, this is the only game that keeps locking up my ps3. Got invited to a multiplayer, tried to join, lockup. Tried to sit in the high stakes table without putting on my sharp suit, lockup. Like have to switch off the ps3 from behind level of lockup. Never had that before.

Odd.

I've been playing this for hours and hours, and have only had one lockup during a multiplayer match - after playing for hours and hours.  I could switch it off on the front of the ps3 though.

[rattran]

I've got a launch 20gig, so perhaps it's a hardware issue. Or maybe it's because YOU were the one to invite me to multiplayer last night! Also, the bandana is great for doing things and not losing honor. Feel the need to run over a nun on your warhorse? Just wrap up first, and no problems! I do lose honor for accidentally running down civilians all the damn time.

Also enough being toolbags to each other in this thread. Go have a duel, or play chicken with a train, or just have sex with each other and get it over.

[fuser]

Challenge 5 is to kill 2 cougars with your knife and skin them.  You can hit the cougar a couple of times with your pistol and then finish it with your knife, and they will run away when they are wounded, so this isn't as hard as it sounds.  There's a random event where a woman is getting chased by two cougars, and you can use that to set up at least one knife kill.

For the knife kills it's easier to lasso and hogtie them. Then switch to your knife and have at it 

[Trippy]

Heh, I did the same with a herd of buffalo.
Also, this is the only game that keeps locking up my ps3. Got invited to a multiplayer, tried to join, lockup. Tried to sit in the high stakes table without putting on my sharp suit, lockup. Like have to switch off the ps3 from behind level of lockup. Never had that before.

Odd.

I've been playing this for hours and hours, and have only had one lockup during a multiplayer match - after playing for hours and hours.  I could switch it off on the front of the ps3 though.

I've had one lockup so far in single-player mode on my PS3 slim having played, I dunno, 10 hours or so? I was able to restart with the front panel power button.

[LK]

Challenge 5 is to kill 2 cougars with your knife and skin them.  You can hit the cougar a couple of times with your pistol and then finish it with your knife, and they will run away when they are wounded, so this isn't as hard as it sounds.  There's a random event where a woman is getting chased by two cougars, and you can use that to set up at least one knife kill.

For the knife kills it's easier to lasso and hogtie them. Then switch to your knife and have at it 

You can hogtie an animal??? O_O

Wow, talk about design fail.

[Morfiend]

Challenge 5 is to kill 2 cougars with your knife and skin them.  You can hit the cougar a couple of times with your pistol and then finish it with your knife, and they will run away when they are wounded, so this isn't as hard as it sounds.  There's a random event where a woman is getting chased by two cougars, and you can use that to set up at least one knife kill.

For the knife kills it's easier to lasso and hogtie them. Then switch to your knife and have at it 

You can hogtie an animal??? O_O

Wow, talk about design fail.

 

[LK]

Challenge 5 is to kill 2 cougars with your knife and skin them.  You can hit the cougar a couple of times with your pistol and then finish it with your knife, and they will run away when they are wounded, so this isn't as hard as it sounds.  There's a random event where a woman is getting chased by two cougars, and you can use that to set up at least one knife kill.

For the knife kills it's easier to lasso and hogtie them. Then switch to your knife and have at it 

You can hogtie an animal??? O_O

Wow, talk about design fail.

 

Not from the obvious. I would have made that challenge require you to use only Knife damage to take out the cougar, and not involve a lasso.

[Litigator]

Challenge 5 is to kill 2 cougars with your knife and skin them.  You can hit the cougar a couple of times with your pistol and then finish it with your knife, and they will run away when they are wounded, so this isn't as hard as it sounds.  There's a random event where a woman is getting chased by two cougars, and you can use that to set up at least one knife kill.

For the knife kills it's easier to lasso and hogtie them. Then switch to your knife and have at it 

You cannot hogtie the cougar.  You can lasso them and try to drag them, but they get off the rope and can run away quickly.  Eventually, I hope someone will manage to drag a cougar into the Armadillo saloon, though, and get that on YouTube.

[01101010]

You cannot hogtie the cougar.  You can lasso them and try to drag them, but they get off the rope and can run away quickly.  Eventually, I hope someone will manage to drag a cougar into the Armadillo saloon, though, and get that on YouTube.

 

[NiX]

You cannot hogtie the cougar.  You can lasso them and try to drag them, but they get off the rope and can run away quickly.  Eventually, I hope someone will manage to drag a cougar into the Armadillo saloon, though, and get that on YouTube.

I accept your challenge.

[Cyrrex]

You can hogtie an animal??? O_O

Wow, talk about design fail.

Think about what you just typed for a second.  Is it called peopletie?

Cletus!  Go peopletie me up one of them thar cougars, pronto you big galoot!

[Xanthippe]

There's about 80 male characters and only about 8 female characters in multiplay.  I've unlocked half the females, and they all look pretty beat.  No skimpily clothed hot chicks in Rockstar Games?

[LK]

You can hogtie an animal??? O_O

Wow, talk about design fail.

Think about what you just typed for a second.  Is it called peopletie?

Cletus!  Go peopletie me up one of them thar cougars, pronto you big galoot!

Again, I was thinking about using a lasso to immobilize for a knife kill, trivializing the challenge. Hogtying animals: no problem.

[MisterNoisy]

If it helps, it's not terribly challenging to just knife the fuckers in standup combat.  If you back off a bit (6-10') their AI defaults to either running away or circling slowly to lunge.  Both modes will let you run straight up and sink your knife in without much resistance/aversion - just stab and get back to that range again.  Two stabs and you're done.

[Azazel]

Wow, you really try to make this into a big thing between us, do you? Its not like I'm deadly serious all the time, especially the smiley in the second posting should have been a clue, added because you seemingly took the previous posting as a call to arms. Obviously diffusion with light humor doesn't work. Neither does apologizing. Would you really be more comfortable with a vendetta over this? Because last day of work before the holiday, and me not hating you all that much, I wouldn't.

Bloody hell. your comprehension is worse than I thought. My last post was saying "ok cool no problem - but what pissed me off was this and this doesn't impress me (since you appeared to be serious about both) but no stress." I even included a bunch of examples with good minigames. Granted, I had to finish the post in a hurry and fucked up the quotes since friends had arrived and I had to go, but still...

Game has quite a few bugs in it, but it's still fun. Not robot Jebus, but fun. The riding around is getting tedious since everything is so far away from everything else, and listening to endless dialogues between John and NPCs while travelling ranges from really entertaining to painful.

Failed a quest earlier - I started the cutscene, watched the cutscene, then as it ended I got a MISSION FAILED: YOU BROKE THE LAW (I hadn't actually even regained control of the character). The instadeath of water, while a GTA standby, is still fucking annoying.

I do like the little DIY narratives the game sthrows up and allows, though. Some tool wanted to Duel me in Armadillo, and threw in a few insults. I shot the gun out ofhis hand, got 100 fame, then he ran off. After a min, I decided to chase him, and with my horse, I eventually caught up to him. Put my mask on, lassoed him, hogtied him, then dropped him on the railway tracks. Just as I did so, I heard the horn, which pretty much confirmed that course of action. Very soon, he was a cloud of red mist. Then I took my mask off, and rode back into Armadillo...

I might go unfuck the quotes from that other post, now. 

[WindupAtheist]

I want to see an f13 vendetta! It sounds way more awesome than what I usually have, namely crabby-nerd internet slapfights that usually culminate with someone going "..buh... muh... well UO SUCKS!" and then waiting to see if I headbutt my monitor in fury and die.

[NiX]

I want to see an f13 vendetta! It sounds way more awesome than what I usually have, namely crabby-nerd internet slapfights that usually culminate with someone going "..buh... muh... well UO SUCKS!" and then waiting to see if I headbutt my monitor in fury and die.

You're like a sunshine marshmallow in my lucky charms.

[WindupAtheist]

Looming vendettas aside, worst thread title ever.

[Ingmar]

holy fuck do I suck at this game

[Trippy]

Looming vendettas aside, worst thread title ever.

I'm more concerned with the fact that you know that movie.

[WindupAtheist]

I knew it was something (I was leaning toward something Muppet related for some reason) so I typed it into Google.

Aw who am I kidding? It's magnificent motion picture.  

fuck you guys I'm bringing back green

[Azazel]

There's about 80 male characters and only about 8 female characters in multiplay.  I've unlocked half the females, and they all look pretty beat.  No skimpily clothed hot chicks in Rockstar Games?

I'd expect at least one dressed in a corset and big dress like the ladies that frequent the saloons, as well as a Bonnie-alike. When I played MP with Lorekeep he was using one that looked okay. Might have been a Bonnie-Alike, actually.