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Ingmar
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Reply #1015 on: January 17, 2011, 11:52:23 AM

Trent Dilfer.  DRILLING AND MANLINESS

Trent Dilfer is the most annoying argument against the "It's all about the QB" debate because he's the ONLY outlier. Most sports radio people treat his name with disdain when you bring it up because it's known, and it doesn't matter.

There response is the same as mine, name another one.

Terry Bradshaw, Jeff Hostetler, Brad Johnson...

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Nebu
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Reply #1016 on: January 17, 2011, 11:57:35 AM

Jim McMahon, Eli Manning, Ken Stabler, Doug Williams, Jim Plunkett ...

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Hoax
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Reply #1017 on: January 17, 2011, 11:58:49 AM

For real did Paelos just say that and forget about that Bucs team?

Also I don't really remember the season/super bowl but what about the Redskins when they won it I looked at a list of super bowl qb's and I don't even recognize that name (Mark Rypien).

LoL also Eli Manning is a great choice, that guy is ass.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
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ghost
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Reply #1018 on: January 17, 2011, 11:59:41 AM

Trent Dilfer.  DRILLING AND MANLINESS

Trent Dilfer is the most annoying argument against the "It's all about the QB" debate because he's the ONLY outlier. Most sports radio people treat his name with disdain when you bring it up because it's known, and it doesn't matter.

Their response is the same as mine, name another one.

No he's not.  There are some scattered throughout.  One could even argue that Rothlisberger, in his first Superbowl, was there simply to manage the game.  He has gone on to bigger and better things, but in the beginning he wasn't as much of a focus of the team.  Here are some other QBs that may not have been hall of fame caliber on great teams:

1.  Eli Manning
2.  Brad Johnson
3.  Mark Rypien
4.  Jeff Hostetler
5.  Doug Williams
6.  Phil Simms
7.  Jim McMahon

Each of these guys was good, but by himself wouldn't be carrying a team.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 12:27:47 PM by ghost »
Paelos
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Reply #1019 on: January 17, 2011, 12:03:52 PM

I'm sorry, I should have qualified that to say in today's game meaning the last 20 years.

The NFL today is nothing like the NFL of the 70s and 80s in any way, shape, or payroll. It's stupid to compare the two. Hell, the majority of the records from those eras have been ground to dust.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Ruvaldt
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Reply #1020 on: January 17, 2011, 12:10:50 PM

Brad Johnson is pretty recent.

Eli is as well, though some would argue that he isn't a middling QB (not me).
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 12:12:33 PM by Ruvaldt »

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Sjofn
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Reply #1021 on: January 17, 2011, 12:16:51 PM

I'm sorry, I should have qualified that to say in today's game meaning the last 20 years.

The NFL today is nothing like the NFL of the 70s and 80s in any way, shape, or payroll. It's stupid to compare the two. Hell, the majority of the records from those eras have been ground to dust.

Hostetler won his in 1991.  Ohhhhh, I see.

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Nebu
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Reply #1022 on: January 17, 2011, 12:22:22 PM

I'm sorry, I should have qualified that to say in today's game meaning the last 20 years.

Every sport has changed in the last 30 years.  Still, there are a few older faces on the list for passing yards (career).  Marino bridges the gap.

1.    Brett Favre (41)    71,838     1991-2010     
2.    Dan Marino+    61,361     1983-1999     
3.    Peyton Manning (34)    54,828     1998-2010  
4.    John Elway+    51,475     1983-1998     
5.    Warren Moon+    49,325     1984-2000     
6.    Fran Tarkenton+    47,003     1961-1978     
7.    Vinny Testaverde    46,233     1987-2007     
8.    Drew Bledsoe    44,611     1993-2006     
9.    Dan Fouts+    43,040     1973-1987     
10.    Joe Montana+    40,551     1979-1994     

Single Season passing yard records are also interesting.

1   Dan Marino    Miami Dolphins            5,084   1984
2    Drew Brees    New Orleans Saints    5,069    2008
3   Kurt Warner    St. Louis Rams            4,830   2001
4    Tom Brady            New England Patriots    4,806    2007
5   Dan Fouts    San Diego Chargers    4,802   1981
6   Dan Marino    Miami Dolphins            4,746   1986
7   D. Culpepper    Minnesota Vikings    4,717   2004
8   Dan Fouts    San Diego Chargers    4,715   1980
9   Warren Moon    Houston Oilers            4,690   1991
T10    Warren Moon    Houston Oilers            4,689   1990
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 12:35:57 PM by Nebu »

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

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ghost
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Reply #1023 on: January 17, 2011, 12:33:18 PM

Here's a good list that has the winning and losing QBs of each year of the superbowl. 

Link
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Reply #1024 on: January 17, 2011, 12:35:17 PM

Ben Rothliesberger's first Super Bowl win. Brad Johnson. Jim McMahon. Doug Williams. Mark Rypien. Jeff Hostetler.

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Reply #1025 on: January 17, 2011, 12:48:38 PM

Brad Johnson was lighting it up, a pro bowler, and setting Tampa Bay franchise records. I'm not sure how you people are tossing him in the category of average QB who won a championship.

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ghost
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Reply #1026 on: January 17, 2011, 12:51:39 PM

Johnson in 2003 had 26 TDs versus 21 Ints, 3800 yards and 62% passing completions.  Maybe a decent showing, but you could have put any number of other guys in his spot to do the same thing.  Otherwise, his career is pretty much meh.  He wasn't awful, but certainly not to the level of "it's all about the QB".  If I remember correctly, Tampa that year was known predominantly for it's defense.  
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Reply #1027 on: January 17, 2011, 01:04:59 PM

Tampa Bay was 4th or 5th in team defense in 2003.  5th in points allowed, 4th in passing yards allowed, etc.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
ghost
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Reply #1028 on: January 17, 2011, 01:09:02 PM

The link says they were 18th in offense in 2003, as well.  They were #6 in passing offense though, so Johnson definitely had a good year. 
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Reply #1029 on: January 17, 2011, 01:13:14 PM

Poor Dan Marino. :(

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HaemishM
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Reply #1030 on: January 17, 2011, 01:13:59 PM

Brad Johnson is the very definition of system QB with all the negatives that entails. At his best, he managed the game well enough when coached, but most years he was barely adequate enough to keep a job. His Super Bowl year was 2002, when he threw 22 TD and only 6 INTs. He was replaced at various times in his career by such luminaries as Brian Griese and Tavaris Jackson. Tampa won that year on a killer defense with an offense that didn't self-destruct.

Nebu
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Reply #1031 on: January 17, 2011, 01:15:49 PM

Poor Dan Marino. :(

If he had two good knees, he could have been spectacular!

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Nevermore
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Reply #1032 on: January 17, 2011, 01:22:37 PM

Tampa Bay was 4th or 5th in team defense in 2003.  5th in points allowed, 4th in passing yards allowed, etc.

Wrong season.  They were by far the number one defense in both points allowed and yards allowed their Super Bowl year.

Over and out.
ghost
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Reply #1033 on: January 17, 2011, 01:44:29 PM

Ah yes, they won it in 2002.  Here is the link for that year.  They were indeed #1 in total and passing defense and #6 against the run. 

They were #18 in offense and #15 in passing offense. 
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Reply #1034 on: January 17, 2011, 02:02:23 PM

Ben Rothliesberger's first Super Bowl win. Brad Johnson. Jim McMahon. Doug Williams. Mark Rypien. Jeff Hostetler.

Ben might have had a poor SB showing but he had a great season, with many 4th quarter clutch plays.

Rypien had a fabulous season that year, even if he turned out to be a 1 year wonder.

Williams played lights out that SB.

The others, I give you and I'll throw in Trent Dilfer but we're going back ~10 years now.  In the past decade, only time a non-great QB wins is with a defense that is totally off the hook, like Baltimore in 2000 or TB in 2002.  Look at all the SB winning QB — Brady, Roethlisberger, Manning, Warner…

Salary cap concerns make it harder for any one team to dominate scrimmage -- look at teams with running game in 2010, not even consistent there, odd for OL to dominate DL for consistent run game.

"Should the batman kill Joker because it would save more lives?" is a fundamentally different question from "should the batman have a bunch of machineguns that go BATBATBATBATBAT because its totally cool?". ~Goumindong
Johny Cee
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Reply #1035 on: January 17, 2011, 02:38:08 PM

I'm sorry, I should have qualified that to say in today's game meaning the last 20 years.

Every sport has changed in the last 30 years.  Still, there are a few older faces on the list for passing yards (career).  Marino bridges the gap.

1.    Brett Favre (41)    71,838     1991-2010     
2.    Dan Marino+    61,361     1983-1999     
3.    Peyton Manning (34)    54,828     1998-2010  
4.    John Elway+    51,475     1983-1998     
5.    Warren Moon+    49,325     1984-2000     
6.    Fran Tarkenton+    47,003     1961-1978     
7.    Vinny Testaverde    46,233     1987-2007     
8.    Drew Bledsoe    44,611     1993-2006     
9.    Dan Fouts+    43,040     1973-1987     
10.    Joe Montana+    40,551     1979-1994     

Single Season passing yard records are also interesting.

1   Dan Marino    Miami Dolphins            5,084   1984
2    Drew Brees    New Orleans Saints    5,069    2008
3   Kurt Warner    St. Louis Rams            4,830   2001
4    Tom Brady            New England Patriots    4,806    2007
5   Dan Fouts    San Diego Chargers    4,802   1981
6   Dan Marino    Miami Dolphins            4,746   1986
7   D. Culpepper    Minnesota Vikings    4,717   2004
8   Dan Fouts    San Diego Chargers    4,715   1980
9   Warren Moon    Houston Oilers            4,690   1991
T10    Warren Moon    Houston Oilers            4,689   1990

To back up a fellow accountant:

The older names on the list are also predominately associated with early adopters of the West Coast Offense (Fouts, Montana), which became the de facto offensive scheme in the last 20 years. 


On Simms and Hostetler:  Both won Superbowls with one of the greatest defensive players ever....  whose position was also the biggest Achilles Heel of the West Coast Offense (blind side pass rusher).
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Reply #1036 on: January 17, 2011, 03:10:06 PM

Yeah, and their offense was pretty run-based. Which Ingmar never stops telling me was boring as hell to watch. Something about that grindy sort of offense pisses him off.  awesome, for real

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Hoax
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Reply #1037 on: January 17, 2011, 03:17:42 PM

Yeah, and their offense was pretty run-based. Which Ingmar never stops telling me was boring as hell to watch. Something about that grindy sort of offense pisses him off.  awesome, for real

Yet he is playing dwarves in our bloodbowl league, fucking hypocrite.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
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Sjofn
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Reply #1038 on: January 17, 2011, 03:20:48 PM

That totally just made me laugh out loud.  Heart

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Ingmar
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Reply #1039 on: January 17, 2011, 03:36:29 PM

Based on my runners' fumble rates I probably should have named one Ahmad Bradshaw.

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Sjofn
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Reply #1040 on: January 17, 2011, 03:41:00 PM

 You're such a bastard. Cry

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El Gallo
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Reply #1041 on: January 19, 2011, 03:53:23 AM

Trent Dilfer.  DRILLING AND MANLINESS

Trent Dilfer is the most annoying argument against the "It's all about the QB" debate because he's the ONLY outlier. Most sports radio people treat his name with disdain when you bring it up because it's known, and it doesn't matter.

Their response is the same as mine, name another one.

Most sensible people treat 'sports radio people' with disdain.

This post makes me want to squeeze into my badass red jeans.
01101010
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Reply #1042 on: January 19, 2011, 09:05:15 AM

Jesus christ did anyone catch the cnn article on the Raiders meeting?

Holyl fuck what the hell did Al Davis do to himself?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/ann_killion/01/18/raiders.davis/index.html

I couldn't read the article for several minutes being stunned by the image.

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ghost
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Reply #1043 on: January 19, 2011, 09:22:31 AM

Looks like he had a chemical or laser peel and possibly had some kind of lesions removed-  basal cell carcinoma or some precancerous type lesions.  He looks like he has spent a lot of time in the sun.
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Reply #1044 on: January 19, 2011, 09:24:08 AM

I couldn't read the article for several minutes being stunned by the image.

Well, at least until further down in the article…

Quote
Cable was hired by the Seahawks precisely as Davis was vivisecting him. Which is a good thing, because it sounds like Cable is going to need some steady income.

Davis spoke of lawsuits against Cable: One brought by former assistant Randy Hanson, who claims Cable broke his jaw, others brought by women who have charged Cable with domestic abuse. In both cases, the Raiders were also named. Cable, in Davis' view, was putting the Raiders at legal risk.

He said he began fining Cable -- taking $20,000 out of his paycheck for six weeks -- as a form of legal insurance, "because we don't know what the final verdict will be in a lawsuit."

Davis also said that he disapproved of Cable bringing one of the women involved in a lawsuit on road trips with the team. Davis added that he was told one incident allegedly happened on a road trip.

I thought that was model behavior for a Raider…  Grin

"Should the batman kill Joker because it would save more lives?" is a fundamentally different question from "should the batman have a bunch of machineguns that go BATBATBATBATBAT because its totally cool?". ~Goumindong
WayAbvPar
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Reply #1045 on: January 19, 2011, 09:56:13 AM

Sure glad he landed here... Ohhhhh, I see.

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Reply #1046 on: January 19, 2011, 10:10:50 AM

With the number of bitches on the Seahawks O Line, I'm sure Cable's unique proclivities will come in handy.  awesome, for real

Cyrrex
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Reply #1047 on: January 19, 2011, 10:41:40 AM

With the number of bitches on the Seahawks O Line, I'm sure Cable's unique proclivities will come in handy.  awesome, for real

 Ohhhhh, I see. That would be offensive if it wasn't also true.

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WayAbvPar
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Reply #1048 on: January 19, 2011, 10:47:29 AM

There is going to be a shitton of turnover there. Spencer should be gone, hopefully Locklear will be gone, and whoever is playing RG this week as well. Left side will be Okung and Unger, then hopefully a free agent or two and a first day draft choice.

When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM

Always wear clean underwear because you never know when a Tory Government is going to fuck you.- Ironwood

Libertarians make fun of everyone because they can't see beyond the event horizons of their own assholes Surlyboi
Surlyboi
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Reply #1049 on: January 19, 2011, 10:49:52 AM

Jesus christ did anyone catch the cnn article on the Raiders meeting?

Holyl fuck what the hell did Al Davis do to himself?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/ann_killion/01/18/raiders.davis/index.html

I couldn't read the article for several minutes being stunned by the image.

Didn't you know he long ago became Mumm-Ra, the ever living?

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
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