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 Author
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Topic: Advice for a cheap laptop (Read 16451 times)
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Sheepherder
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5192
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The new i3/i5/i7 Intel integrated video is okay.
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Tale
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8567
sıɥʇ ǝʞıן sʞןɐʇ
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stray
Terracotta Army
Posts: 16818
has an iMac.
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I bought an "Asus UL50VT" recently. Pretty happy with it. The card's decent (GeForce G210M, 512mb), 4 gigs ram. When you unplug, it can set itself up to use the intel onboard video, and can last about 7 hours or so (give or take, although the official listing is 9 hrs). It's selling for around $700
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Cyrrex
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10603
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I looked at the first two you linked, and I'd go out on a limb to say the the integrated graphics on those things blow huge chunks. You would hate it for gaming, and I suspect it wouldn't manage to run LOTRO in any playable form. You need to find something with a decent nvidia or ATI card. Haven't looked at the other links yet. The new i3/i5/i7 Intel integrated video is okay.
Don't know if the above is true or not, but in any case I don't expect that is what you are getting with these. Laptop makers who use integrated graphics tend to use the absolute cheapest (and subsequently, worst performing) solutions they can get. Edit: okay, I looked through the rest of the list you linked. To even get close to your budget, I only found one that I would even consider: http://www.centrecom.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?categories_id=56&inc_subcat=1&pfrom=499&pto=999&products_id=44094The processor isn't exactly fantastic, but the video card would be more than adequate, and loads faster than any of that Intel crap. |
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« Last Edit: April 05, 2010, 07:25:36 AM by Cyrrex »
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"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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Salamok
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2803
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Does the Dell Australia site have an outlet/refurb section? I just bought a Dell refurb (gets here Wednesday), there are some pretty sweet deals if you spend an hour or two hunting for them. I ended up with a Studio 1747: core i7 (820qm), 6gb dual channel 1333mhz RAM, 1 GB ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4650, Dell's 1520 ireless N card, 9 cell battery and a 17.3" 1080p LED back lit screen for under $1200.
The hard drive on it blows (250gig@5400rpm) and it doesn't have bluetooth but I'm ordering the dell bluetooth part for $30 ASAP and dropping in an SSD sometime in the next 6 months.
Saw plenty of 15" models in the $600-1000 range, there were even a few XPS 16" models for under $900. There is also a ton of crap but if you know what you want and spend the time to find the deals it is well worth it.
edit: corrected retarded phone spelling correction and added some more info now that I am at a real keyboard.
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« Last Edit: April 05, 2010, 12:23:31 PM by Salamok »
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Sheepherder
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5192
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Don't know if the above is true or not, but in any case I don't expect that is what you are getting with these. Laptop makers who use integrated graphics tend to use the absolute cheapest (and subsequently, worst performing) solutions they can get. The second one is then newer Intel IGA, as I recall one of the hardware sites did an article on the newer Intels being able to play Batman: AA on the lowest settings without it devolving into a slide show, though the actual performance is linked with processor speed and therefore the i3's are probably a bad idea anyways. |
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Lt.Dan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 758
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I've been looking into this as well. I've narrowed my search down to the ASUS 1201N (new super netbook worth checking out, but may not be widely available in Oz just yet) and a Dell Studio 15 (which is above your budget but worth checking out)
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Azazel
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« Last Edit: April 05, 2010, 07:04:44 PM by Azazel »
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Engels
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Posts: 9029
inflicts shingles.
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Well, the key issue is the graphics component. The one you linked just now, Azazel, has an intel graphics chipset, which can't really do games. The Asus Cyrrex linked has an Nvidia gpu, which can do games (albeit limited). The one upside of not having an NVIDIA/ATI graphics solution is that it'll run more quietly since there isn't a high cooling requirement. So its a trade off there.
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I should get back to nature, too. You know, like going to a shop for groceries instead of the computer. Maybe a condo in the woods that doesn't even have a health club or restaurant attached. Buy a car with only two cup holders or something. -Signe
I LIKE being bounced around by Tonkors. - Lantyssa
Babies shooting themselves in the head is the state bird of West Virginia. - schild
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Salamok
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2803
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The Australian Dell Outlet sucks compared to the US one, Refurb Inspiron Laptops, I do see one with dedicated graphics but it is still only a ATI Radeon 4330. Still $737 Australian isn't bad, 4 gig of ram and a core 2 duo means this isn't a glorified netbook anyhow. edit: apparently they can't even be bothered to add navigation (is this really dell's site?) , anyhoo here is the mother page so you can move around edit2: I have some Aussies coming to stay for the next month too bad they couldn't just shop for you here and bring it to you, here you can get the newer core i3 version of that laptop for just over $600 US. |
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« Last Edit: April 05, 2010, 08:09:08 PM by Salamok »
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Azazel
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Engels - that makes complete sense - thanks Salamok - yeah the prices here on everything are like that. Captive market and all of that. No wonder I order almost everything from overseas.  Thanks for digging through Dell's site for me as well. Are refurbs intrinsically any worse than new machines? How does this one stand up compared to the Asus? DFO-6590000I NEW Inspiron(TM) 1545 Laptop Intel(R) Core(TM) 2 Duo Processor T6600 (2.20GHz/ 800 FSB/ 2MB Cache) Genuine Windows(R) 7 Home Premium 64bit (English) 4GB (2X2GB) DDR2 SDRAM Memory 500GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive 8X DVD + /-RW Drive with DVD + R double layer write capability Internal 10/100 Fast Ethernet 512MB ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4330 Intel(R) High Definition Audio 2.0 McAfee(TM) Security Center (Multi-Language) - 15 Months Version Dell Wireless 1397 802.11b/g Half Mini Card 15.6 " 720p WLED (1366x768) Display with TrueLife(TM) Matte Black Integrated 1.3 mega pixel web cam 1 Year $ 737 |
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Salamok
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Posts: 2803
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I have had good luck with refurbs (probably purchased about 20 optiplex desktops over the years) but this will be the 1st refurbished laptop I've bought. I went ahead and purchased a few years of insurance and warranty to cover my ass, Dell used to have really good support but last 3 years or so have sucked, maybe with this in-home service thing they are offering repeatedly not fixing issues that arise will make it as inconvenient for them to not fix a problem as it is for me. Dell still has the best DIY online support resources i've seen, the system tags narrow the drivers and parts down very well (I have had huge headaches doing this for friends with Sony's and HP's), they even make it fairly easy to order replacement or upgrade parts yourself (keyboards, screens addon cards). If you are not comfortable troubleshooting & supporting your own machine I would probably not recommend a refurb though.
Looks like the Dell you posted has a minimally faster proc and a 2gig to 4gig upgrade on RAM is definitely nice, not sure which Vid Card would be better (my hunch would be nVidia). If the graphics cards are close I'd go with the Dell.
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Sheepherder
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5192
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Well, the key issue is the graphics component. The one you linked just now, Azazel, has an intel graphics chipset, which can't really do games. Incorrect.It's still not great, but you're not going to get much better in a laptop. |
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« Last Edit: April 06, 2010, 03:54:10 AM by Sheepherder »
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rattran
Moderator
Posts: 4258
Unreasonable
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Except for the tons of laptops with real video. The intel HD is better, but still pretty much shit.
The Asus with switching graphics are neat, but pricey.
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Cyrrex
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10603
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Here's a quick link to a site with a mobile graphics breakdown: http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Graphics-Cards-Benchmark-List.844.0.htmlThe first Intel card is WAAAAY down the list (is it the same one you guys are talking about? Not sure). Shooting from the hip, I'd say anything within the top 120 will run LOTRO...I know for a fact that number 108 will (the Go 7600 GT) as it is the same card I have in my 3 year-old laptop. It's perfectly reasonable to find a, say, 250m or 260m card in a relatively affordable machine, though I don't know about Aussie pricing. A Go 8600 is also something you could find in a mid-priced laptop, probably even one of the 9800 variations. |
"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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Engels
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9029
inflicts shingles.
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Well, the key issue is the graphics component. The one you linked just now, Azazel, has an intel graphics chipset, which can't really do games. Incorrect.It's still not great, but you're not going to get much better in a laptop. That's very much not true. There are discrete graphics cards in laptops that can put out quite decent performance. Check the chart provided by Cyrrex. It still may be worth it for Azazel to consider the newer intel HD integrated graphics chip for both pricing, heat and battery consumption, but if he wants to spend any significant amount of time gaming on the laptop, there are a ton of far far better options. Just as a point of comparison, the intel HD graphics chip has 12 pixel shaders. The old Nvidia 9400M that was put into various mac books has 16, and that's 2-3 year old tech. Azazel, that laptop looks quite decent, but I would see if you can find customer reviews. |
I should get back to nature, too. You know, like going to a shop for groceries instead of the computer. Maybe a condo in the woods that doesn't even have a health club or restaurant attached. Buy a car with only two cup holders or something. -Signe
I LIKE being bounced around by Tonkors. - Lantyssa
Babies shooting themselves in the head is the state bird of West Virginia. - schild
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Cyrrex
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10603
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100% agree with Engels in general on the subject of cards...many of the discrete cards perform quite well.
The Dell you linked would work decently. It would be a good deal faster than my current laptop (which, as already mentioned, works okay for stuff like LOTRO). I would only wonder if you couldn't still do better for the price, but I don't know anything about your market. Is there no Aussie version of newegg?
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"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 23657
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The ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5450 is okay. It's below my somewhat arbitrary cutoff line for a decent mobile gaming GPU (the 9600M GT) but it's certainly better than the 4330 in the previous Dell you listed. |
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Aez
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1369
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Did they ever released a decent external videocard for laptop? I remember hearing about those a couple of months ago but never actually heard about a finished product.
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Azazel
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The ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5450 is okay. It's below my somewhat arbitrary cutoff line for a decent mobile gaming GPU (the 9600M GT) but it's certainly better than the 4330 in the previous Dell you listed. Nod. It's not really a mobile gaming PC, more a laptop that can run some games decently. (from, say, bed). |
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Cyrrex
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Posts: 10603
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Well, that Dell would do it, then. I'd still look around if I were you to see if you can find more bang for the buck. Doing the conversion to US dollars, however, I think that PC looks to be priced about right for what you're getting. Personally, like Trippy, I'd try to find something with a 9600M GT or better. For future proofing, if nothing else.
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"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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bhodi
Moderator
Posts: 6817
No lie.
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In general, trying to buy a laptop that can play modern games is a losing proposition. You'll end up with a large, heavy, battery sucking monster that's 3x as expensive as it's desktop equivalent. You can build small form-factor desktops for a fraction of the cost that will outperform any laptop. I would be on the lookout for a laptop that has a "class B" processor in it, as per notebookcheck, but again you're going to pay a premium in both weight and cost to have it. Better to just get a normal laptop and keep a small desktop for gaming. If you're only looking for web browsing and word processing, you probably want a netbook, but getting a largeish screen could be a challenge. Tons of manufacturers are pumping dozens of models each year out. I'll quote some stuff from SA since it's constantly updated: Current consensus for raw performance value?
Acer Aspire One AS1410 or AS1810with Dual-Core CPU
Acer Aspire AS1410-2920 ($450 at Amazon and at NewEgg)
* Intel Celeron SU2300 dual-core (1.2GHz) CULV
* 11.6" 1366x768 display
* Intel GMA 4500MHD Graphics
* 2GB - 4GB of RAM
* 250GB Hard Drive
Current consensus for best video performance for under $500
Asus 1201N (Around $485 at Amazon and NewEgg)
* Nvidia 9400M w/256MB Graphics
* 1.6GHz Dual-Core Atom N330
* 2GB up to 8GB of RAM
* 1366x768
* HDMI Out
A damn good competitor on the CPU and graphics front - AMD updated
MSI Wind12 U230-040US (NewEgg link- $480 now - Amazon - $480 pre-order)
* AMD Athlon Neo X2 L335(1.60GHz) - Dual-core "Congo"
* ATI Radeon HD 3200
* 12.1" WXGA 1366x768
* 2GB (4GB Max)
* 320GB HDD
* 6-cell battery
* Review at Hexus.net
A damn good competitor on the CPU and graphics front as well - AMD
* 11.6" Toshiba Satellite T115D-S1125 - around $500 at Amazon and NewEgg
* AMD Athlon Neo X2 Dual-Core Processor L325
* 11.6" 1366 x 768
* 2GB RAM, 320GB HDD, Windows 7 Home Premium,
* ATI 3200 Graphics
* HDMI Out
Current consensus for best value for video performance
HP Mini 311
• Intel Atom (Single-core)
• 1GB DDR3 System Memory (1 Dimm)
• 160GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive
• NVIDIA ION
• 11.6" diagonal HD LED BrightView Widescreen Display (1366 x 768)
• Wireless-G Card
• 6 Cell Lithium Ion Battery
Current consensus of older netbooks: (becoming outdated by the hour)
* Asus Eee PC 1000HE (1005HA is newer version of 1000HE)
* Toshiba NB200/NB205
Best Hackintosh / Mac OS X experience?
* Above-mentioned Asus 1201N - dual core CPU, graphics (see this InsanelyMac thread)
* On a budget: HP Mini 311, see this insanelymac thread for details
* Stay the hell away from netbooks with Intel's X4500 graphics if you want OS X, Apple moved away from Intel before the X4500 graphics came out, you will be better off with the HP Mini 311 mentioned above if you want to get OS X running on a new model.
* Older Netbooks: Dell Mini 10v. Not the Dell Mini 10. The Dell Mini 10v. 10v 10v 10v
* Older Netbooks: Ye Olde MSI Wind U100 (the thing has been documented to hell and back)
* 11.6" Gateway (Best Buy) - AMD Athlon 64 Processor L110 with 1366x768 display. 6-cell battery, $380, but don't expect spectacular battery life.
Characteristics of a Netbook:
In the past, it typically was:
* 7" - 10"
* A price in the range of $250 - $600
* Running with a low powered single-core CPU (usually Intel's Atom or on older machines an older Celeron)
* Usually Windows XP Home or Linux.
* Lack of an internal optical drive
As of CES 2010, you're seeing:
* 10" - 12" (the 7" form factor has all but died off thanks to cheap 9" netbooks and the 9" netbooks are dying off too))
* Low powered single-core (Intel Atom, Celeron, Core 2 Solo) to dual-core (Intel Celeron, Core 2 Duo, Intel Atom N330)
* Windows 7, Linux, Google's Android, and less and less likely, Windows XP (Microsoft has been wanting to drop XP sales for a long time, and netbooks kept them around)
* Still typically lacking an internal optical drive (there are one or two models that have tried, but they didn't do so well)
For laptops, newegg has the best search. Go there, look up ones in your price range, then check the GPUs on notebook check, find which one is the best, buy that one. |
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Azazel
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I'm. In. Australia.  Therefore, Newegg doesn't count. I'm also not after a kickass gaming rig. But a laptop that can play a few games from recent years. I'm talking LotRO, Warcraft 3, Dawn of War 1, etc. Not Crysis. We're also after a Laptop rather than a netbook, because we like things like having an optical drive, and at least a 15" screen. I suspect searching out a machine with a 9600M GT as well as a similar spec would raise the price by another hundred or two, so that's out. |
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Kageru
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Posts: 4549
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I'm. In. Australia. Therefore, Newegg doesn't count. I beg to differ... priceUSA allows you to order from newegg. And even with postage you still tend to get better prices than the heavy retail mark-up we pay here, especially for things like laptops. I've bought a external RAID box (unavailable on the Australian market at any price) and eeePC (200$ saving, even after postage). That said I don't really get laptops. Unless you truly need the mobility (student, business use) they're awful compared to a small form factor desktop in terms of power, price and ergonomics (a real keyboard! a real monitor!). And if you do want mobility then many times an eeePC or equivalent will be sufficient and both cheaper, lighter. Even carrying that thing around on holidays was more effort than it was worth... edit: I notice priceUSA is in the process of recruiting another US agent, so you would have to wait a couple of weeks... she's only taking orders from existing customers at the moment. |
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« Last Edit: April 06, 2010, 07:20:33 PM by Kageru »
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Is a man not entitled to the hurf of his durf?
- Simond
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Sheepherder
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5192
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Just as a point of comparison, the intel HD graphics chip has 12 pixel shaders. The old Nvidia 9400M that was put into various mac books has 16, and that's 2-3 year old tech. Real men play games without AA/AF. Okay, point taken. |
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Fargull
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The Alienware M11 is $800.00 in the US and lists at 1300 in Australia. Really about the only laptop I would buy at this point. Anyway, give it a look, though it is beyond your budget. Would not expect to find anything refurb though and I don't have a good line of sight to non-Dell.
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"I have come to believe that a great teacher is a great artist and that there are as few as there are any other great artists. Teaching might even be the greatest of the arts since the medium is the human mind and spirit." John Steinbeck
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Azazel
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I'm. In. Australia. Therefore, Newegg doesn't count. I beg to differ... priceUSA allows you to order from newegg. And even with postage you still tend to get better prices than the heavy retail mark-up we pay here, especially for things like laptops. I've bought a external RAID box (unavailable on the Australian market at any price) and eeePC (200$ saving, even after postage). That said I don't really get laptops. Unless you truly need the mobility (student, business use) they're awful compared to a small form factor desktop in terms of power, price and ergonomics (a real keyboard! a real monitor!). And if you do want mobility then many times an eeePC or equivalent will be sufficient and both cheaper, lighter. Even carrying that thing around on holidays was more effort than it was worth... edit: I notice priceUSA is in the process of recruiting another US agent, so you would have to wait a couple of weeks... she's only taking orders from existing customers at the moment. Due to potential warranty, etc issues. Pretty much the only things I won't order through the post/net are electronics. Like I said in the first post. This applies to both within Australia and especially internationally. Laptop/TV/Console fucks up, I take it back to either the place I bought it from and they deal with me face-to-face, or I send it to the local branch of Microsoft/Sony/Dell/etc. Also, It's utterly fantastic that you "don't get" laptops. I don't much give a shit. I have three desktops here right now, and we have a use for a Laptop as we've used one in other rooms and for various things for a decade or more. In the past they have usually been my wife's work laptop but she now has good reason to leave hers at work intead of at home - mine permanently lives at work. Please feel free though to let me know what your next purchase is and I'll gladly tell you why I don't get it and why you should buy something else. $1300 is way more than I'm willing to spend (or let her spend) on a laptop. I'm unhappy with the almost-$1k the Dell is going to cost, but my wife wants it and is happy to pay up to $1k, so it looks like we're going with that. |
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Kageru
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4549
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Feel free. I'm just interested in how other people use their electronics, we put a lot of thought into laptop vs. eeePC for our own use. priceUSA offers a small extra payment for which they'll ship the laptop back to the US and present it for warranty repairs. Though lots of items, like the eeePC, have a global warranty these days. Dell seems to have some weird hybrid system ( warranty transfer form) where you can transfer to an Australian warranty on some / most products. But sure, buying from the local distributor has its advantages. |
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« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 06:00:52 PM by Kageru »
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Is a man not entitled to the hurf of his durf?
- Simond
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Azazel
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Yeah, but then you're still shipping iot back and forth internationally, and so there's more risk of damage/loss/etc. With the current Dell, we're paying a bit more than we would from the US - though not that much more once shipping is factored in, but it'll be here in just over a week and it'll be easy enough to sort out any issues with local support from Day 1.
I mean, I get like 90-95% of my games, my blu-rays, my collectables, my miniatures wargames stuff and even my paints through the post from the US, UK and HK. I just won't do that for electronic goods.
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rrazcueta
Terracotta Army
Posts: 92
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Wouldn't it be cheaper to buy a gaming rig for ~$600 and a netbook for ~$300?
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Azazel
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Gaming rig for AU$600?    My processor and video card will cost more than that. Gaming rig will be in the $2k range, based on last time. Anyway, trigger was pulled a few days ago. Dell will be here in a week or so, probably. |
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Aez
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1369
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So I'm tempted by a netbook. Anyone can help me with software cost? I know you usually get free window 7 and office when you buy a 2000$ desktop. What happens if you buy a 400$ netbook, do you have to shell out an other 400$ for office?
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« Last Edit: April 13, 2010, 06:17:31 AM by Aez »
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Mosesandstick
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2476
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Find a student and get a student version if you can.
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