Mr. Smart is the Best Forum Poster [INTERNET HISTORY ITT]

[NiX]

Was one of the fired people either an HR standin or legal counsel? Because I'm a little surprised nobody's sad down with the good doctor and discussed why you don't slag on ex employees, even if you feel they richly deserve it.

Yeah, he's shitting away any potential they had for defending themselves against any angry employees. Not sure how similar labour disputes like this are treated in the US, but they could walk away with damages based on him making statements without fact that could prevent them from making a living.

[Samprimary]

Definitely hope someone writes up a cliff's notes version highlighting this entire interaction and saves the whole thread off-site.

[Draegan]

I just discovered the Gamasutra stuff.

Oh wow. 

[Samprimary]

Definitely hope someone writes up a cliff's notes version highlighting this entire interaction and saves the whole thread off-site.

OH LOOK

[kildorn]

I really do want to know if the current employee giving outside access credentials to a terminated employee thing is true though. Because that's shit that just does not happen, because if you get caught no sane person will hire you after that lawsuit.

Being pissy and making mean comments about your prior job? Okay, whatever. Happens. Actively logging into your ex employer's system? Nothing good can come of this! Do not!

[Samprimary]

my favorite Dsmurt quote

I simply don't have the time or patience for petty bickering when there is so much work to be done.

[tgr]

Would you rather that all of the criminal allegations be kept hush-hush, so that future VC prospects will approach without caution? Which is more important, that a crappy MMO gets started and the owner runs off with the bag of money, or that the VC people have some reasonable expectation that they're investing in an honest business, even one that fails?

I guess I don't know much about VC. Again, if I had the money, I'd want to watch out for fraud and embezzlement, whether I invested in a MMO or in an orange grove.

If there were criminal allegations, then surely there'd be paper trails to follow and check up on.

If I were a VC, then I'd ask for a list of people to ask for recommendations, and I'd ask them. If a majority of them isn't giving me a good review, then chances are something is amiss and I should probably look elsewhere. I'd probably also ask them directly if there's anything less than optimal in their past they'd like to share before I find out about it on my own, and if I then found something very serious they hadn't mentioned, there'd be some 'splainin to do.

None of this involves one guy going on a one-man crusade and ruining their reputations, careers and possibly lives. That, no matter how idiotic/illoyal they've been, is uncalled for. It isn't his job to make sure the world knows about them, it's the VC's job to make sure THEY find out before they throw money at people. It's what VCs get paid to do, they look at what the risks might be vs rewards, and if they do a shitty job of evaluating what the risks are, then sucks to be them.

[taolurker]

taolurker your screenshots don't work for me, they're really small.

Ok, so, I can't grab the Gamasutra article. Seems too big, Firefox is locking up. If someone else wants to try, by all means. I was using Screengrab 0.62.2.

I think that photobucket was compressing them, and was why I tried uploading them twice. The ones stored on my computer are fine, and I assumed it was only viewing through firefox that was compressing them (making them not viewable). I linked them to a remote site (a local restaurant by me), but I do want to take these down at some point, if someone can transfer them to another website.
Gamesutra
QoL

[01101010]

my favorite Dsmurt quote

I simply don't have the time or patience for petty bickering when there is so much work to be done.

I can't even choose a favorite...but that's in my top 5.

[Grimwell]

On the VC question, I don't think this is bad for the industry -- I think it's bad for the VC's in this particular case.

They clearly funded something they didn't understand, made some bad decisions about whom to empower with their money, and are now reaping the benefits. Part of being a venture capitalist is actually learning something about what you are about to invest in before you give over the money. While I don't expect a VC to come to F13 for recommendations on where to put their money, anyone here -- or anyone relatively well versed in the gaming industry of the last ten years could have said "These may not be the best choices."

Anyone looking to dump millions into a project in this industry should do the diligence to find this kind of stuff out.

While this mess is full of  for us on the MMO side of things, I'd bet in the VC world the is being passed around by guys going "Can you believe that they funded this?" and questioning the VC's not the people in the MMO company. Other VC's who are looking at this industry shouldn't be put off by the melt down -- sure, they won't fund the people involved, but if they are doing their homework they can not only see the potential profit, but rational people who are worth the investment.

Also, if you are one of those VC types, please call me. I'm certain I can top this or at least fail professionally. 

[HaemishM]

Was one of the fired people either an HR standin or legal counsel? Because I'm a little surprised nobody's sad down with the good doctor and discussed why you don't slag on ex employees, even if you feel they richly deserve it.

All the HR people were consumed by the 17th mouth of the good doctor there.

EDIT: As for the VC people, I can only believe that they are somehow the trust fund down syndrome babies of some deeply inbred incestuous royal family for some flyspeck shithole in Uzbekistan that still believes in the monarchy. There is no other explanation for it. Who else would not only give millions of dollars to DAVID FUCKING ALLEN to build an MMO, then turn around and hire DR. THE EARTH SHALL TREMBLE BEFORE MY MIGHTY VOICE to unfuck the inevitable conclusion of the first investment.

[Ard]

Superstitions are stupid.

To comment on this because no one else did.  This is not superstition.  He actually does show up damn near any time his name is mentioned.  He's been doing it since the usenet days.  It's more annoying than fun.

[NiX]

I think that photobucket was compressing them, and was why I tried uploading them twice. The ones stored on my computer are fine, and I assumed it was only viewing through firefox that was compressing them (making them not viewable). I linked them to a remote site (a local restaurant by me), but I do want to take these down at some point, if someone can transfer them to another website.
Gamesutra
QoL

How'd you get the whole site pictures? Put them together yourself?

[Soln]

gotta get some lunch to bring back to ma desk to read the latest


my theory is that aside from ego and maybe insanity there is something else promoting DS' scorched earth posting.  The comments about bringing him early, the networking deal, and then his own company paying for people's salaries makes me think that aside from lying to him the cabal tricked him into the QOL deal with more liability than he realized.  The fact he got hoodwinked and responsible for something maybe hurts more than the loss of cash?


Edit:

I also heard a rumor that you may have been an angel investor back in November, and caused a ruckus to get the product out the door.

Yeah that makes more sense, plus the other stuff in that comment. 

[taolurker]

I think that photobucket was compressing them, and was why I tried uploading them twice. The ones stored on my computer are fine, and I assumed it was only viewing through firefox that was compressing them (making them not viewable). I linked them to a remote site (a local restaurant by me), but I do want to take these down at some point, if someone can transfer them to another website.
Gamesutra
QoL

How'd you get the whole site pictures? Put them together yourself?

Fireshot Firefox addon

I do need someone to move those to something more permanent hosting wise though for them to survive (and photobucket was the issue compressing them).

[Khaldun]

I think at this point if failure and misrepresentation was going to discourage VCs from investing in MMOs, they'd already be seriously discouraged. And maybe they in fact are. One more case isn't going to swing it one way or the other.

[HaemishM]

If the road of failure and shame that is the entire history of MMOG's isn't enough to discourage VC's from investing in MMOG's, nothing short of crotch-gnawing badgers hidden in the company P&L statement will keep them from tossing good money before bad.

[Fabricated]

Why is everyone involved in the game industry either soulless or literally bat fuck insane?

[Mrbloodworth]

Why is everyone involved in the game industry either soulless or literally bat fuck insane?

Have you read any gaming forums?

[Fabricated]

Why is everyone involved in the game industry either soulless or literally bat fuck insane?

Have you read any gaming forums?

Well I at least sort of considered Video Games to be in the same sort of arena as most media/entertainment, but you don't see this sort of insanity anywhere else. Hollywood is so full of self-absorbed egos there should be an inescapable event horizon surrounding the entire state of California but you just don't see Derek Smarts in the movie industry. It'd be like George Lucas calling a press conference to say that J.J. Abrams is a donkey rapist because of how he directed the Star Trek reboot.

[tgr]

you just don't see Derek Smarts in the movie industry. It'd be like George Lucas calling a press conference to say that J.J. Abrams is a donkey rapist because of how he directed the Star Trek reboot.

How many others in the gaming industry have you seen that are this bad? About the only other one I can think of offhand is John Romero.

[Lantyssa]

I think at this point if failure and misrepresentation was going to discourage VCs from investing in MMOs, they'd already be seriously discouraged. And maybe they in fact are. One more case isn't going to swing it one way or the other.

I'd say that if people like David Allen and [redacted] can get put at the head of projects, there is still plenty of venture capitol to go around.

[ezrast]

I do need someone to move those to something more permanent hosting wise though for them to survive (and photobucket was the issue compressing them).

Here they are if anyone wants them, I've got bandwidth to spare. I do tend to periodically fuck up some configuration and render my website inaccessible, but they should be safe there for now.

[Velorath]

Why is everyone involved in the game industry either soulless or literally bat fuck insane?

Have you read any gaming forums?

Well I at least sort of considered Video Games to be in the same sort of arena as most media/entertainment, but you don't see this sort of insanity anywhere else. Hollywood is so full of self-absorbed egos there should be an inescapable event horizon surrounding the entire state of California but you just don't see Derek Smarts in the movie industry. It'd be like George Lucas calling a press conference to say that J.J. Abrams is a donkey rapist because of how he directed the Star Trek reboot.

Uwe Boll.

[Sheepherder]

you just don't see Derek Smarts in the movie industry. It'd be like George Lucas calling a press conference to say that J.J. Abrams is a donkey rapist because of how he directed the Star Trek reboot.

How many others in the gaming industry have you seen that are this bad? About the only other one I can think of offhand is John Romero.

The other people arguing with that which should not be are probably equally intellectually stunted.

Uwe Boll and Michael Bay are pretty retarded in their own way too, with the exception that they don't stalk themselves online.

[schild]

And here we are. Caution: Images Obviously Huge.

• PR
• Thread - Page 1
• Thread - Page 2
• Thread - Page 3
• Thread - Page 4
• Thread - Page 5
• Gamasutra Article + Comments

[Lum]

Why is everyone involved in the game industry either soulless or literally bat fuck insane?

To be fair, some of us are both.

[Lum]

About the only other one I can think of offhand is John Romero.

Except that Romero learned his lesson from the Ion Storm debacle. He's been working on an MMO for years, quietly.

[Riggswolfe]

Wait..wait...wait! I didn't see this mentioned yet...

The new CEO of this company, Mr Serek Dmart, is using the forum name BVRBandit? As in, Beaver Bandit?

[schild]

About the only other one I can think of offhand is John Romero.

Except that Romero learned his lesson from the Ion Storm debacle. He's been working on an MMO for years, quietly.

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/10/21/romero-remains-head-of-slipgate-ironworks-following-layoffs/

Parent publisher Gazillion Entertainment has confirmed that John Romero will remain with Slipgate Ironworks following a round of layoffs that struck  the development studio this month, reports Joystiq sister site Big Download. As previously detailed, a smaller staff will be left intact to complete an unnamed MMO project, which has undergone a change in "format," according to Gazillion.

Does a facebook game count as an MMOG? You decide.

[Tearofsoul]

schild, I have a better screenshot for Gamasutra Article + Comments 

http://www.mmogcn.net/download/Snap1.jpg

[FatuousTwat]

Wait..wait...wait! I didn't see this mentioned yet...

The new CEO of this company, Mr Serek Dmart, is using the forum name BVRBandit? As in, Beaver Bandit?

Seriously cracked me the fuck up the first time I read it.

[Stabs]

Wait..wait...wait! I didn't see this mentioned yet...

The new CEO of this company, Mr Serek Dmart, is using the forum name BVRBandit? As in, Beaver Bandit?

I'm afraid I don't get the allusion.

I sincerely hope it's not some furry sex thing.

[schild]

Wait..wait...wait! I didn't see this mentioned yet...

The new CEO of this company, Mr Serek Dmart, is using the forum name BVRBandit? As in, Beaver Bandit?

I'm afraid I don't get the allusion.

I sincerely hope it's not some furry sex thing.

Youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu don't get out much, do you?

[Ingmar]

The man is all class.