Civilization V- Might actually be good now. Stay tuned.

[Shannow]

Some of these Civ bonuses are pretty weak. Started a game with random civ last night and got Spain - Cities of Gold...extra happiness and gold for natural wonders....oh boy.

Think Firaxsis were trying a little to hard to pump the numbers of civs available...

[Maledict]

I dislike Spain not because its bonus is weak, but because it's completely random. Spain can be the most overpowered Civ in the game if you happen across a wonder first, but if you don't they effectively don't have an ability. It's complete pot luck and very annoying.

[Paelos]

I bought the gold update and started this. Not sure I understand religion or faith yet, but it's at least going places. I got stuck on an island with Korea and 3 City State. Me and Korea are about to have words, but I have 2/3 city states and 3 more cities than him. Plus horseys.

[Sky]

Think Firaxsis were trying a little to hard to pump the numbers of civs available...

That's why Civ is so difficult to play after FFH2. The Civs are so similar, a couple minor bonuses and a couple unique units. Versus entirely different civs in FFH2, where your play style is radically altered depending on who you play.  Civ V is a decent game, but once you've seen what it could be, it leaves ashes in the mouth.

[Maledict]

I thought we had an agreement on FFH missionary work in the Civ 5 thread... :)

[Paelos]

He can't help himself.

[Sky]

 

[Ingmar]

Think Firaxsis were trying a little to hard to pump the numbers of civs available...

That's why Civ is so difficult to play after FFH2. The Civs are so similar, a couple minor bonuses and a couple unique units. Versus entirely different civs in FFH2, where your play style is radically altered depending on who you play.  Civ V is a decent game, but once you've seen what it could be, it leaves ashes in the mouth.

FFH2 is terrible.

(If Sky can bring it up I can respond in the traditional way!)

[Paelos]

I kicked Korea off my island as England. Now I'm set up to start building a navy and taking advantage of my civ bonus for water movement.

[MrHat]

I kicked Korea off my island as England. Now I'm set up to start building a navy and taking advantage of my civ bonus for water movement.

Hell ya.  Ship of the Line is nuts. 

[rk47]

I think, bar some massive invasion/non-conquest victory conditions, island games as England is auto win.

[Paelos]

I still don't know what i'm doing with most of the new stuff, but it's better for sure. City battles are very hard, and have to be planned well in the early stages of science. I'm mostly military focused as England by circumstance (I don't share islands).

[Maledict]

Yes, island or archipelago games as England is basically auto-win. Not only is England the most powerful sea nation, but they also get one of the best UU in the game with the Shp of the Line which is just a ridiculously good unit. Stronger, can see further, moves faster and is cheaper to build - it's nuts.

Add into that the fact that the Longbowmen means they get artillery about a 1000 years before anyone else, allowing them to turtle up and play defensive to an extent no-one else except the chinese can manage and they really are an astonishingly powerful military civ on all maps bar Pangea really. England has probably the second or third best UU in the game (Longbowmen) and Ship of the Line is probably 5th or so, and they both work so well together. (Which you wouldn't think looking at them but they absolutely do).

When they first annoucned civ 5 I thought England had gotten completely screwed on it's unique ability but in practice they're a really, really strong nation outside of Pangea maps.

[MrHat]

England has probably the second or third best UU in the game (Longbowmen) and Ship of the Line is probably 5th or so, and they both work so well together. (Which you wouldn't think looking at them but they absolutely do).

How does your ranking look for top 10 on those?

[rk47]

IMO Greek Hoplite and Companion Cavalry makes early domination really EZ as your UU is extremely effective. One is a solid backbone to the army, the other is a super fast (5 tile movement) hit and run cavalry. Not forgetting that Cavalry can move after attacking - it can simply retreat behind the hoplite wall to avoid taking damage.

[Sky]

One of my city states gave me a longbowman early on, which got pretty much everyone off my back as I played 'park the longbowman on your border if you don't trade with me'.

[Flinky]

It appears the last two of the nine new Civs in Brave New Word have been announced; Venice and the Shoshone.

Looks like Venice will be a standard choice for single city attempts. Their trait disables the ability to gain settlers or annex cities but in return they are able to maintain twice the number of trade routes while also being able to purchase in puppeted cities. This is helped by the fact that Venetian Great Merchants are able to buy City States outright, automatically puppeting them.

Its good to see some different playstyles being promoted by the new Civs. Should be fun.

[Maledict]

Well the civfanatics poll voting contest eventually came up with a top 10 of:

1. Keshik
2. Chu-Ko-Nu
3. Longbowman
4. Janissary
5. Camel Archer
6. Minutemen
7. Carolean
8. Ship of the Line
9. Horse Archer
10. Sea Beggar

Personally I think the Keshik is slightly overrated there, but to be honest all 3 top units are absolute game changers in a way most units aren't. Cho-Ko-Nu are astounding with their double fire, longbowmen are medieval artillery pieces that don't need to set-up and Keshik allow you to conquer everything.

I've never been a fan of minutemen or the carolean, and would rank them quite a bit lower and the Ship of the Line higher.

Unfortunately Greece's units have become a lot worse than they were at launch, just because of the changes to how city combat work and the penalty for mounted units. They are still good but not in the same top tier as he was when the game started.

[Paelos]

I like Jaguars a lot. That didn't make the list I see.

[Merusk]

Jaguars problem is they require too specific conditions to make them shine and are outclassed by archers.  Outside of a jungle hex they are just a warrior unit, so unless you're playing on a difficulty where the AI is handicapped or equal to you in the tech race they're obsolete pdq.

[MrHat]

I always thought battering ram was ridiculous.

[Paelos]

Janissary was my #1, but it takes a bit to get there.

[MrHat]

"Pathfinders are a Shoshone unique unit, and replace scouts. Unlike scouts, they receive the Native Tongue promotion, allowing them to choose what they discover from ruins."

Wow.  There are some great unique stuff in the expansion.  Wish they retro'd the other civs too to make them even more unique.

[Teleku]

Wait, wtf!?  Some civ gets a scout unit that can pick what it gets from every ruin!?  Hint:  if you don't pick technology everytime, your an idiot.

That seems...... Really broken.

[MrHat]

http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Civilization_V:_Brave_New_World

A lot of the unique stuff have unique abilities which is much different than "stronger and cheaper than the unit it replaces".

[Shannow]

Wait, wtf!?  Some civ gets a scout unit that can pick what it gets from every ruin!?  Hint:  if you don't pick technology everytime, your an idiot.

That seems...... Really broken.

Wonder if theres a limit on it, or maybe 'you can choose anything BUT a free tech'. If not I know what empire I'm starting my first game of Civ 5 BNW with.

[Ingmar]

My guess is that it will have a menu where you pick things one time only until you're out of stuff, a la the Mayan Great People menu.

In any case picking tech every time is not necessarily the obvious best choice; picking faith for an early religion grab is probably the best thing to pick from your first ruin if you can, and promoting the unit is also really really good.

[Flinky]

Wait, wtf!?  Some civ gets a scout unit that can pick what it gets from every ruin!?  Hint:  if you don't pick technology everytime, your an idiot.

That seems...... Really broken.

Wonder if theres a limit on it, or maybe 'you can choose anything BUT a free tech'. If not I know what empire I'm starting my first game of Civ 5 BNW with.

Pathfinders are also apparently the same combat strength as Warriors (8STR) yet still cost less and ignore terrain costs, so you know...Shoshone seem pretty set for the early game.

[Shannow]

My guess is that it will have a menu where you pick things one time only until you're out of stuff, a la the Mayan Great People menu.

In any case picking tech every time is not necessarily the obvious best choice; picking faith for an early religion grab is probably the best thing to pick from your first ruin if you can, and promoting the unit is also really really good.

and praying you dont get a 'uncovered map of region' pull...gargh.....I can remember playing Civ 3 on hard difficulties and reloading every time I popped a ruin (or a village, whatever it was back then) until I'd gotten literature like 30 turns into a game. Something which is impossible on Civ 5 due to the FUCKING RIDICOLOUS LOAD TIMES.

[Paelos]

It does take longer to load the game than Anno

which is saying something.

[WayAbvPar]

My guess is that it will have a menu where you pick things one time only until you're out of stuff, a la the Mayan Great People menu.

In any case picking tech every time is not necessarily the obvious best choice; picking faith for an early religion grab is probably the best thing to pick from your first ruin if you can, and promoting the unit is also really really good.

If your scout gets promoted or finds weapons or whatever it is, do they still retain the scout abilities, or do they just become a regular version of whatever weapon they picked up (archer or spearman, normally)? One of those things I always mean to look up when it happens and then I forget.

[Ragnoros]

They retain scout abilities. At least my upgraded scout > archers retained the one movement point rough terrain ability.

[Shannow]

They retain scout abilities. At least my upgraded scout > archers retained the one movement point rough terrain ability.

Yep, which is awesome. Started a game last night with the River guys? (Some west african empire) That get triple cash for taking out barbarian encampments. This is a rather nice plus at the start of game. Especially when Russia got all uppity and I didnt have much of an army. Quickly bought a cpl of spearmen and sent her packing.

[Morat20]

I must be screwing up England. I keep trying to go for world domination and end up in pissing matches with the locals, which sets me back to the point where I'm launching Ships of the Line was some lucky fucker (generally the Iroquis lately) is moving into the atomic age.

Part of it is not knowing the trees very well. Waste a lot of tech fucking around before getting longbowman and SoTL.

I admit, I've sat there with a single city and absolutely fucked the poor bastard who kept declaring war on me. Yes, assault my walls with your crossbows and pikes. I've got walls, barracks, and longbowmen behind the walls. I obliterated 10 or so units each time he declared war on me, for the grand cost of a few pillaged tiles.

[Flinky]

They retain scout abilities. At least my upgraded scout > archers retained the one movement point rough terrain ability.

Yeah, most units keep their current promotions when upgraded. Makes some UU a lot better than you might realise. Someone mentioned Caroleans a bit back as not being so great but one of their strong points is that if you throw out a bunch of them just before advancing techs, they all upgrade into Great War Infantry and keep the 'March' promotion. Ditto with a lot earlier stuff like Jaguars who lead to Swordsman and on that heal after victory and with a bonus in Jungle.

The flip-side to that is the sinking feeling you get when you realise that the horde of Hunnic Horse Archers all with Accuracy III and +1 Range that gave you domination of the Classical Era are about to become the equivalent of level 1 Knights.