Lich king SPOILERS

[Simond]

Technically, that's not before the pull according to the kill videos I've seen.

(I know this is the spoiler thread but this needs double-secret spoilering)

[kildorn]

The dialog during the Lich King fight basically implies he wanted you to kill all of his underlings, because if you're THAT tough, he'll convert you and -no one- will be able to stop him then. He gives a big speech before the pull, thanking Tirion for "delivering the greatest fighting force in the world right into my hands."

He's been rolling with that all of Wrath though. Every time you beat up on one of his badguys, he shows up in a random height and kills him for you. I mean seriously, this guy is terrible upper management.

[Simond]

See my post above. 

[Ratman_tf]

 
 So the Lich King wanted to turn the badest of the badasses into scourge so what? They could rebel like the Forsaken or the metric fuckton of Death Knights running around and viola! He's made his enemies stronger again. Wonderful plan.

Why do we even need to beat Arthas? He makes Dr. Evil look like a genius mastermind. Just leave the idiot in Icecrown jerking off and talking into his Darth Vader voicechange helmet.
 

[Sjofn]

Oh my God do not get me started on his horrible Evil Bad Guy Voice.

[Cadaverine]

Oh my God do not get me started on his horrible Evil Bad Guy Voice.

Well I think it's just awesome that the singer from Morbid Angel has found work. 

[WindupAtheist]

It's that same voice actor who does everything in WOTLK and half of everything everywhere else. I'm sure he's better known for other things, but all I hear is...

[LK]

It was the same voice from Warcraft III. Not for Arthas, for the Lich King.

[WindupAtheist]

Michael McConnohie was Uther and Kel'thuzad in WC3, and the Lich King in WOTLK. When he gets to "Leave here and never return!" he sounds like Schwarzwald, whom he also did the voice of in Big O years ago.

[Sjofn]

He sounds like Dr. Claw.

[Jayce]

Here seems as good a place as any to ask: Am I the only one who thinks Metzen has a lot higher opinion of his own voice acting than is warranted? 

I respect the guy's design and guidance chops, but he sounds like a nerdboy with a little bit of training who wants to voiceover everything.

[LK]

Cheaper than hiring a professional.

[Sjofn]

Here seems as good a place as any to ask: Am I the only one who thinks Metzen has a lot higher opinion of his own voice acting than is warranted? 

I respect the guy's design and guidance chops, but he sounds like a nerdboy with a little bit of training who wants to voiceover everything.

I dunno which people he's acted, so I can't say! Given I think he has a higher opinion of his VISION for the LORE than is warranted, though, I would probably think the same of his voicework. 

[Nonentity]

Oh, lore.

The Lich King was always a bitch, glad to see it gettnig back to fucking DRAGONS in Cataclysm. Not that there was a lack of dragons in LK or anything, but now we have a main bad guy dragon.

[Delmania]

The Lich King was always a bitch, glad to see it getting back to fucking DRAGONS in Cataclysm. Not that there was a lack of dragons in LK or anything, but now we have a main bad guy dragon.

The Lich King represented the third party to the Order vs. Chaos fight.  As one dimensional and stock as he was, I found his simplicity to be refreshing in a group of characters that are always somehow misguided, or some other reason for their actions.  The Lich King is not misguided or duped, or bitter.  He's just evil.

Had I my way, I would have let him win.  Frostmourne would have destroyed the Ashbringer, and I would have plunged Azeroth into a state of chaos until the cataclysm occurred.  A Scourge Invasion but on a much larger and broader scale.  Mix in with that a worsening of relations between the Horde and Alliance, blend in some crazy dragons, and things get lore interesting.

[Delmania]

The Lich King was always a bitch, glad to see it getting back to fucking DRAGONS in Cataclysm. Not that there was a lack of dragons in LK or anything, but now we have a main bad guy dragon.

The Lich King represented the third party to the Order vs. Chaos fight.  As one dimensional and stock as he was, I found his simplicity to be refreshing in a group of characters that are always somehow misguided, or some other reason for their actions.  The Lich King is not misguided, corrupted, duped, or bitter.  He's just evil. (Ner'zhul and Arthas were corrupted, but their fused creation was not).

Had I my way, I would have let him win.  Frostmourne would have destroyed the Ashbringer, and I would have plunged Azeroth into a state of chaos until the cataclysm occurred.  A Scourge Invasion but on a much larger and broader scale.  Mix in with that a worsening of relations between the Horde and Alliance, blend in some crazy dragons, and things get lore interesting.

[WindupAtheist]

For better or worse, Arthas was THE villain. The last boss of vanilla was some lackey of his. The last boss of BC was some guy he beat up. Pulling up some dragon with a dumbass name like Deathwing from the "10,000 years ago some night elves did some shit nobody cares about" section of the lore just isn't that interesting, no matter how many novels that I've never read make reference to how super important he is.

[LK]

They completely mishandled him in such a way as to make me lose faith and concern for all things Warcraft once it became clear Arthas was just a little bitch.

[Delmania]

WUA hit the nail on the head.  Arthas's fall from grace occupied 2 of the 3 campaigns in WC3 and the ultimate campaign of TFT.  In his journey, he fought (and won) against agents of the Burning Legion, the Old Gods, and even a rogue night elf, and wiped out a high elf city.  His actions, both as an agent of the Burning Legion and as a rogue entity reshaped Azeroth more than some random dragon did.  His one dimensionality was refreshing in a game that is full of complex and often misguided people.  Keeping him around in his current state would have had a Scooby Doo affect - "I would have won if not for those meddling kids".   His antics in Wrath can be excused because he was luring us all into a trap, and letting him be defeated by a essentially a deus ex machina is lame.  As I said, had I been in charge, he would have won, and then mounted a full scale offensive against Azeroth that would have placed increased the strain between the Horde and the Alliance and caused all out war to break forth, and then unleased Cataclysm on everyone.  A massive worsening of conditions until the storm hits and blows everything.  Far more interesting that having the Lich King on farm status for loots that will be replaced by the first quest in Cata.

[Sjofn]

For better or worse, Arthas was THE villain. The last boss of vanilla was some lackey of his. The last boss of BC was some guy he beat up. Pulling up some dragon with a dumbass name like Deathwing from the "10,000 years ago some night elves did some shit nobody cares about" section of the lore just isn't that interesting, no matter how many novels that I've never read make reference to how super important he is.

Deathwing is no NEPTULON. Both names sound like something a kid in middle school came up with for his totally sweet D&D campaign though.

[LK]

They likely hire based on how sweet that D&D campaign was, at least from an entertainment perspective. Naming of characters in that campaign? Not so much.

[Ingmar]

Hey now, Deathwing is out of the Warcraft 2 expansion, at least it isn't some Knaak-penned garbage.

[Sjofn]

Fucking Knaak. I hates him so much.

[LK]

Unfortunately Metzen loves him, and that's all that really matters.

[Malakili]

Deathwing from the "10,000 years ago some night elves did some shit nobody cares about" section of the lore just isn't that interesting, no matter how many novels that I've never read make reference to how super important he is.

Its actually not from that long ago at all in the lore, like someone else said, Warcraft 2 era.  Definitely still relevant.  Not to mention we already fought his son, and his daughter, in vanilla, so it isn't exactly like the Black Dragonflight has been absent until they just pulled this out of their ass.   I think Deathwing being the main villain for Cataclysm is one of the only things that might actually get me to come back.

[WindupAtheist]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_x5zDCjULw

[Fabricated]

Well, at least Blizzard let players sort of deliver the final blow to Arthas rather than what happened with Illidan.

[ajax34i]

Maybe I don't get it, but wouldn't the dead stay dead if the Lich King gets destroyed with no one taking his place?  I mean, he's raising the dead, no?

[LK]

Dead would stay dead, but the reanimated still has life (see: Forsaken). They just aren't under his control and would rampage, which.... I GUESS Arthas was holding back some massive armies or something that would make that a bad thing?

[Lakov_Sanite]

It's been mentioned above but it's a good enough explanation.  Consider the forsaken being run by a fairly benevolent ruler(or at least one who plays along with thrall)  Now imagine if every single undead was suddenly given their free-will back. Sure many would be almost mindless but a njority of the higher ranking undead and even the human cultists would start running amok, forming their own factions and splintering into many different armies with goals that may be more chaotic and dangerous than the lich kings.   All these newly free undead could be worse or not but it's an unknown variable.  Personally I think tirion should have smashed the helm but there's an argument for not doing so.

[K9]

No the explanation is still pants-on-head retarded, like most lore.

[WindupAtheist]

Man, you know what totally could have won WW2 for Japan? Taking their highly disciplined and organized military, and splitting it into a million uncoordinated sub-factions all randomly executing their own plans. I mean if you thought four Japanese battleships executing a well-ordered plan were dangerous, just imagine two ships (because someone else got the other two) sailing around shooting at random.

No, it only works if Arthas were holding the Scourge back all along. Which would actually make absolutely No Fucking Sense at all given that he already gleefully destroyed his homeland and murdered his father in their name, not to mention all the times this expansion has slapped us in the face just to go "LOOK HOW TOTALLY EVIL HE IS! HERE IS A PLACE WHERE HE MIGHT SHOW SOME REMAINING TRACE OF GOOD, BUT NOPE, EVIL!"

Yes I still do green.

[Simond]

Option 1: Arthas wanted to conquer the world, not own a desolate waste. Hence the repeated conversion attempts on the PCs, the minions turning towns/kingdoms/entire races (instead of just razing them) etc.

Option 2: Arthas is a retard and anyone else at all running the Scourge would be more dangerous purely by not being Arthas.


Either one works. 

[Lakov_Sanite]

I'd go with option two. Putricide running the scourge would be ten times more deadly, and fun!

[Lantyssa]

It's both.  He set up shop in the most desolate portion of Northrend and look at his lovely trail cutting through the Ghostlands and Silvermoon.

Also he's an idiot.

"Hey, let's lure the strongest in the realm all to one spot so they can kick my ass, instead of just killing everything, raising it, and getting the strongest anyway when they're uncoordinated."