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Author Topic: The 'Build Me A PC' Thread  (Read 853626 times)
Yegolev
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Reply #3010 on: May 22, 2019, 04:29:09 PM

What's the budget?

Not really sure. Let's say $2000 and see what happens. Ultimately it will depend on whatever whim she is feeling. I will submit to her that she is working very hard and her business is bring in lots of money, so she should just buy what she wants... but I just work here.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Trippy
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Reply #3011 on: May 22, 2019, 05:11:43 PM

Is portability a consideration? E.g. would she carry this thing around outside the house?

Yegolev
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Reply #3012 on: May 23, 2019, 06:19:48 AM

I got a few more requirements this morning. 15" screen, or larger (she is used to the Retina). Should be less than 5 pounds. Should play "most" games, do not need to play the most demanding games but let's say 90% of what you'd find on Steam. She's not a gamer, she just wants to play the games and not nerd-out about the hardware.

The 2015 MBP plays The Sims 4 just peachy, and that's more or less what we are shooting for here. Something of a 2019 edition which plays Windows games.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Trippy
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Reply #3013 on: May 23, 2019, 11:41:50 PM

Okay that helps. There actually is a high-end/premium "thin and light" segment of gaming laptops.

First thing, though, is don't get rid of that 15" MacBook Pro. The 2015 model is the last of the good designs before Apple screwed it all up.

Next, figuring out the "best" gaming laptop at a particular price point in a particular segment is a deep deep hole to fall into. There's potentially a lot of stuff to consider and a lot of choices which can get overwhelming. I went through this exercise at the end of last year when I was contemplating getting a new gaming laptop for myself but I'll try to simply things for you.

The short answers are:

If you (with "you" meaning your wife) want a good high-end thin and light laptop that can play games "okay" get a Dell XPS 15 (on sale right now for Memorial Day) with the GTX 1050 Ti. The 1050 Ti, even though I wouldn't really consider it a good gaming GPU (the 1060 would be my minimum), is much better than the AMD Radeon R9 M370X that you probably have in your MacBook Pro.

If you want to get something most like the MacBook Pro in terms of aesthetics and can play games well get the Razer Blade 15.

Some stuff to consider:

When ranking NVIDIA laptop GPUs the "Max-Q" variants are less powerful than their non-Max-Q variants but are slightly more powerful than their non-Max-Q eqivalent one step down. E.g. the regular RTX 2070 is more powerful than the RTX 2070 Max-Q which is more powerful than the RTX 2060. In the lower end of your price range the GPU rankings mixing the current two RTX and GTX generations are:

2060 > 1660 Ti > 1060 > 1650 > 1050 Ti

Note that the 2060 is the only RTX model in that list (hardware for support for ray tracing, etc.).

If you want that MacBook "retina" display type experience there are models with 4K displays (including the two above). Of course "retina" on Windows is not nearly as seemless as it is on the Mac so expect to have to do a bunch of fiddling with various display settings. And old apps may never look good (everything way too small).

Battery-life in gaming laptops, even in this high-end segment, tends to be not great even when not gaming though there are exceptions and some of the 2019 models are improved over their 2018 versions. So if battery life is important that'll limit your choices. Also, in theory an NVIDIA GPU laptop with Optimus is better than one without as you won't be powering the dedicated GPU when it's not needed.

Ultra-thin display bezels are very nice to have but if you also need to use the Webcam many of those displays will put the camera at the bottom of display -- aka a "nose cam". Some of the 2019 design revisions are fixing that issue but you have to check each model to see if they've been updated.

Figuring out the type of laptop display panel to get can be a huge PITA as there are many many types all with pluses and minuses. Fortunately in this segment the overall quality is pretty good so there's usually less stuff to worry about. For me my main requirements were IPS-style wide viewing angles and reasonably wide color gamut (at least 100% sRGB/72% NTSC).

Virtually all of these thin and light gaming laptops will throttle because of heat when run hard, though some are more prone to this than others. One solution that can help if this is a consistent problem is under-volting the CPU and/or GPU.

I don't like typing on "off-center" keyboards (keyboards with numeric keypads or equivalent on the right side) on laptops that I actually use on my lap. There's a trend now away from those kinds of keyboards in 15" gaming laptops, which is nice, but there are still plenty that still have numeric keypads.

Laptops also often have weird key layouts and designs which can be frustrating. E.g. the Razer Blade 15 jams the up arrow cursor key between the ?/ and right shift keys. They also label all their keys "upside down" (the shifted character is at the bottom rather than top of label). Some keyboards also jam keys to the right shift key which can throw you off.

I don't think there's a Windows laptop with a touch/trackpad as good as the MacBook Pro's. Some are better than others but you would need to check reviews (the XPS 15 has one of the best as Windows laptops go).

Thunderbolt 3 (via USB-C connector) is a nice to have for future expansion.

Some other models to consider:

GIGABYTE AERO 15 (various models)
+ Gigantic 94Wh battery
+ 4K panel option
- Nose cam
- Off-center keyboard

MSI GS65 Stealth (select the 15" panel sizes)
Is/was the benchmark for thin and light

Acer Predator Triton 500
Similiar internals to the G65, not quite as thin and light

ASUS ROG Zephyrus G GA502
+ Good value (AMD CPU, NVDIA 1660 Ti GPU)
- Display sub-par (poor color range, brightness)
- No Webcam at all (not even nose cam)

ROG Zephyrus S GX502
- No Webcam at all (not even nose cam)

Alienware m15
+ Optional 90Wh battery
+ 4K panel option
- Off-center keyboard

Microsoft Surface Book 2
+ Retina-style display (260 ppi)
+ Convertible design (screen detaches)
- Convertible design (funky hinge)
- 3:2 screen aspect ratio (3240x2160 or 1620x1080 equivalent)

Lenovo Legion Y40
- Medicore battery (57 Wh)
- Nose cam
- Probably infected with all sorts of Chinese spyware
Druzil
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Reply #3014 on: May 24, 2019, 05:48:52 AM

I've had a Dell XPS 13 (not a gaming laptop) for a few years now and it has been an excellent laptop.  It's extremely light, thin and has a good keyboard for a laptop and the track pad is nice.  I would definitely consider an XPS 15 if I was looking for one I could do light gaming on.
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Reply #3015 on: May 24, 2019, 06:40:57 AM

Trippy's post is the best gaming notebook review on the entire Internet.

Don't get tempted into going for a 1070 over a 1060; follow Trippy's gpu hierarchy. I had to return my m15 1070 because it was too hot and loud. Temps maxed on any game that rendered things in 3d. I caught myself having to leave the vicinity (because FANS) to have a conversation and knew it had to go back.

If I had unlimited money, I would snag one of the Surface Book models coming later this year which is expected to have the 2060. I have been very impressed with build quality on my low-end Surface Pro 6 as a non-gaming laptop.
Sky
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Reply #3016 on: May 24, 2019, 07:14:54 AM

Last night I realized I'm 1 generation of gpu too old for HDR through Windows :( Bummer.
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Reply #3017 on: May 24, 2019, 06:16:46 PM

Lenovo did release some thinkpads a week or two ago with mobile Ryzen CPUs and Vega graphics. Might be a good option if you are looking for a thinner laptop with a bigger screen but better graphics than a typical integrated one.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
RhyssaFireheart
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Reply #3018 on: May 29, 2019, 08:05:28 AM

In lieu of me reading 87 pages (and counting!) of this thread, I'm instead going to demand information randomly!

So my current desktop is getting a bit long in the tooth (meaning, it's struggling with the FFXIV benchmark just released for the new xpac) and it's probably about time to upgrade.  I've considered a gaming laptop but I basically never worry about not having a laptop now, I pretty much always work at my desk with two monitors, and I'm not sure a laptop video would handle that well.  Anyways....

I'm so far beyond building my own PC these days, so I'm fine with Dell or HP (current PC is a Dell) and something available from say Costco or Best Buy or even from HP/Dell directly is fine.  I have no idea what the current iteration of CPU/MB/Video is, preference would be for min 16GB memory, 1TB HDD, decent video for gaming and running Photoshop.. anything else is whatever to me.

Help?

HaemishM
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Reply #3019 on: May 29, 2019, 08:11:18 AM

Just going to point out that if you are talking about desktops, HP is doing well with their lineup of desktop machines. Do not ever buy an HP laptop, however. EVER.

RhyssaFireheart
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Reply #3020 on: May 29, 2019, 08:15:06 AM

Just going to point out that if you are talking about desktops, HP is doing well with their lineup of desktop machines. Do not ever buy an HP laptop, however. EVER.

Fabulous.  I look forward to getting my company issued HP laptop when my refresh is due in September, switching over from Dell.   Ohhhhh, I see.

Another reason why I don't feel the need for a laptop.  I generally don't game when I travel and when traveling, will likely have the work laptop with me if I want to be online. 

Trippy
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Reply #3021 on: May 29, 2019, 08:27:48 AM

Obl. what’s your budget question.
Cyrrex
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Reply #3022 on: May 29, 2019, 08:49:10 AM

We should just all post our PC budgets in our sigs on general principle in order to save Trippy time.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Trippy
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Reply #3023 on: May 29, 2019, 09:07:53 AM

That would be helpful.
RhyssaFireheart
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Reply #3024 on: May 29, 2019, 02:52:34 PM

Obl. what’s your budget question.


Considering we're now paying off the husband's medical bills (well, deductibles and such) and my gaming is a stress reliever - as inexpensive as possible.  So $1000 or less if possible, could maybe stretch that to $1500 if I had to.

Trippy
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Reply #3025 on: May 29, 2019, 03:35:32 PM

So for under $1000 you are likely looking at an AMD Ryzen / AMD Radeon RX 580 type system. The RX 580 is roughly comparable to the NVIDIA GTX 1060 which I would consider the minimum for a gaming computer.

Some examples:

$805 Best Buy Dell - Inspiron - AMD Ryzen 7-Series - 16GB Memory - AMD Radeon RX 580 - 1TB Hard Drive
Ryzen 7 2700 system. No SSD in this one which is why it's the cheapest. This is also $95 cheaper than the same model that's on sale on Dell's site.

$945 Best Buy Dell - Inspiron - AMD Ryzen 7-Series - 16GB Memory - AMD Radeon RX 580 - 1TB Hard Drive + 256GB SSD
Same as above with 256GB SSD. It's cheaper to get your own SSD and transfer stuff over if you know how to do all that.

$850 Best Buy CyberPowerPC - AMD Ryzen 7-Series - 16GB Memory - AMD Radeon RX 580 - 2TB Hard Drive + 240GB SSD
Ryzen 7 2700 system with SSD for less than the above Dell.

$1030 Dell.com Alienware Aurora - 9th Gen Intel Core i5 9400 - 16GB Memory - NVIDIA GTX 1660 Ti  - 2 TB Hard Drive + 128GB SSD
The GTX 1660 Ti is a step up from the AMD Radeon RX 580/GTX 1060 Tier. Case screams "gamer", though. Sale expires in 13 hours.

Edit: step
« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 03:39:11 PM by Trippy »
RhyssaFireheart
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Reply #3026 on: May 30, 2019, 06:04:55 AM

Thanks, Trippy!  Awesome information there.

So what's the benefit to having an SSD and an HDD drive?  Is the SSD used exclusively for booting/OS and the HDD for storage? 

Looking through the various deals on the Dell site and I can't believe how 8GB memory is apparently standard.  How can it be that low?  Maybe I've always been a RAM whore though because I game and run Photoshop, which both need plenty of memory and good video...

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Reply #3027 on: May 30, 2019, 06:59:49 AM

8GB is enough for the vast majority of users. RAM prices also have been relatively high in the last couple of years due to production capacity constraints, so making the standard amount higher increases costs across the board.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
HaemishM
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Reply #3028 on: May 30, 2019, 08:14:56 AM

SSD's make a huge difference in boot up times. My old computer used to take forever to boot up. I could literally start the computer, wait for the login screen, login then go make a sandwich and it still wouldn't be ready to go. The computer I bought recently had a 1TB HDD drive and was about 4 generations newer with the same amount of RAM as that computer - boot up to ready time was between 1-2 minutes. I installed the OS to a 500GB SSD and my boot up to ready time is less than 30 seconds. It makes a HUGE difference, and can also help if you use it as your scratch disk for Photoshop, or After Effects or very memory intensive programs like that. It's not recommended to use the SSD for a lot of file storage where you are constantly changing the files. I tend to only install games on it that have insane loading times (like Battlefield 4) and just use the 1 TB HDD for game installation and file storage.

Even getting a smaller SSD for the OS drive that you don't use for anything else will still improve your life dramatically.  why so serious?

Trippy
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Reply #3029 on: May 30, 2019, 08:34:39 AM

So what's the benefit to having an SSD and an HDD drive?  Is the SSD used exclusively for booting/OS and the HDD for storage? 
It depends on the size of the SSD. Windows 10 will take ~20 GB (and potentially grow over time). It's generally not good to fill consumer-level SSDs to more than ~75% capacity as low free space can lead to slower performance and shorter lifespan. So on a 128 GB SSD that leaves ~75 GB free for 3rd party applications, documents, games, etc. The rest would need to be stored on the HDD. So you can store non-OS stuff on a boot SSD but it won't be much on some of the lower-end configurations with small SSDs.

The "benefit" of having both is that you get much of the benefit of an SSD (e.g. faster boot times) without paying the extra cost of SSD-only storage. E.g. a 128 GB SSD + 2 TB HDD costs ~$80 at the low end while a 2 TB SSD costs ~$200.
MisterNoisy
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Reply #3030 on: June 03, 2019, 02:18:54 PM

8GB is enough for the vast majority of users. RAM prices also have been relatively high in the last couple of years due to production capacity constraints, so making the standard amount higher increases costs across the board.

RAM prices have come down pretty heavily over the last few months, though.  I managed to put 32GB in the most recent box for less than I paid for 16GB of damn near identical memory the year before, and 16GB (2x8) is routinely available for well under a bill now.

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Reply #3031 on: June 03, 2019, 09:18:32 PM

Yeah, I got some RAM pricing for work today and it was a lot lower than it had been back in October when we last got quotes.

I know China was ramping up some memory fabs aimed solely at their domestic market which may have finally come online and helped with the supply issues.

It could also be a sign that the global economy is slowing down and demand is dropping.

Still doesn't mean that 8GB of RAM isn't sufficient for the vast majority of people though  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
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Reply #3032 on: June 03, 2019, 09:26:21 PM

8 GB is not enough for Chrome all by itself. Hell 16 GB is not enough for Chrome.
HaemishM
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Reply #3033 on: June 04, 2019, 07:33:32 AM

That's because Chrome is a memory-sucking bitchhog for no good goddamn reason. And yet I can't quit using it.

Azazel
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Reply #3034 on: June 05, 2019, 06:48:23 PM

OK, stuff is in stock again and I have the cash ready to burn. A few more quick questions.

32 GB RAM is not overkill these days. Also with Ryzen 7 higher bandwidth memory helps performance (up to a certain point). I would go with the 3200 MHz versions of the RAM you picked: https://www.centrecom.com.au/corsair-vengeance-lpx-3200mhz-ddr4-ram-cmk16gx4m2b3200c16

Or you could go with taller (and more expensive) 2x16 GB 3200 MHz RAM instead.

Do you have recommendations for the RAM in 2x16gb? I couldn't find the exact same type in 2x16/3200


The power supply choices are kind of meh, unfortunately. Your RMx choice is okay given the options as the only that would be noticeably better would be the AX1200i which is significantly more power and more expensive.


Quote
You should consider an aftermarket CPU cooler. The stock "Wraith Prism" cooler is serviceable but there are better air coolers if you are willing to spend the money. Something like this: https://www.centrecom.com.au/noctua-nh-u14s-cpu-cooler (plus an extra fan for dual fan cooling) would be ideal, though for that cooler you would need to double-check that it's the 2019 model with AM4 mounting support.

The Noctua doesn't seem to support AM4. Do you have another suggestion?
https://www.centrecom.com.au/cpu-coolers

Also - any advice on how many additional fans to purchase, which ones/size and where to have them mounted? This might seem like moron-level questioning - but I'm deferring to your knowledge and not wanting to fuck anything up with such an expensive build/investment.

The case comes with three (two front, one rear)
https://www.centrecom.com.au/fractal-design-define-r6-usb-c-tg-mid-tower-e-atx-case-gunmetal
https://youtu.be/R63WqvhK4hA

https://www.centrecom.com.au/buildpc/120142

thanks again!

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Trippy
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Reply #3035 on: June 05, 2019, 10:34:16 PM

OK, stuff is in stock again and I have the cash ready to burn. A few more quick questions.

32 GB RAM is not overkill these days. Also with Ryzen 7 higher bandwidth memory helps performance (up to a certain point). I would go with the 3200 MHz versions of the RAM you picked: https://www.centrecom.com.au/corsair-vengeance-lpx-3200mhz-ddr4-ram-cmk16gx4m2b3200c16

Or you could go with taller (and more expensive) 2x16 GB 3200 MHz RAM instead.
Do you have recommendations for the RAM in 2x16gb? I couldn't find the exact same type in 2x16/3200
If there's enough heat sink clearance room you can go with this:

https://www.centrecom.com.au/corsair-vengeance-rgb-pro-32gb-2x-16gb-ddr4-3200mhz-desktop-ram-black (51mm height)

Or these G.Skill ones which are little shorter in height:

https://www.centrecom.com.au/gskill-trident-z-rgb-32gb-2x16gb-ddr4-3200mhz-gaming-desktop-ram (3200 MHz, 44mm height)
https://www.centrecom.com.au/gskill-sniper-x-32gb-2x16gb-ddr4-3600mhz-memory-white-3 (3600 MHz, 43mm height)

Quote
The power supply choices are kind of meh, unfortunately. Your RMx choice is okay given the options as the only that would be noticeably better would be the AX1200i which is significantly more power and more expensive.
Quote
You should consider an aftermarket CPU cooler. The stock "Wraith Prism" cooler is serviceable but there are better air coolers if you are willing to spend the money. Something like this: https://www.centrecom.com.au/noctua-nh-u14s-cpu-cooler (plus an extra fan for dual fan cooling) would be ideal, though for that cooler you would need to double-check that it's the 2019 model with AM4 mounting support.

The Noctua doesn't seem to support AM4. Do you have another suggestion?
https://www.centrecom.com.au/cpu-coolers
This should work with even tall RAM (up to 64mm height) in single fan mode. It apparently won't work with any of the above RAM in dual-fan mode though (32mm max height):

https://www.centrecom.com.au/noctua-nh-d15-se-am4-amd-socket-pwm-cpu-cooler

Another cheaper option is this combo, though the cooling performance won't be as good as the above Noctua (which may or may not matter):

https://www.centrecom.com.au/cooler-master-hyper-212x-cpu-cooler
https://www.centrecom.com.au/cooler-master-am4-cpu-bracket-for-hyper-212x212-evo

Quote
Also - any advice on how many additional fans to purchase, which ones/size and where to have them mounted? This might seem like moron-level questioning - but I'm deferring to your knowledge and not wanting to fuck anything up with such an expensive build/investment.

The case comes with three (two front, one rear)
https://www.centrecom.com.au/fractal-design-define-r6-usb-c-tg-mid-tower-e-atx-case-gunmetal
https://youtu.be/R63WqvhK4hA
So that's kind of hard to answer given the case gives you a lot of cooling options that have tradeoffs. I.e. if you want a quieter setup your cooling options are more limited. If you don't care about noise, and the surface the case will be resting on will be relatively free of dust, pet hair, etc. you have a quite a few options. It's possible, depending on your ambient room temperature and other factors like whether or not you keep the front case door open, that the default 3 fan setup would be enough to keep your system from throttling/getting too hot even though you are specing some heat intensive components (105W TDP for CPU, 225W TDP for GPU).

If noise is not a concern and you can either keep the surface it's resting on relatively clean or are willing to clean the fan filter regularly you may want to get at least a single bottom fan and a matching top fan to suck cold air from the bottom and blow it out the top. Note that having a top fan or fans on that case means removing the sound-damping top panel. If the floor/surface is dirty you can just do the top fan (or fans) but that's not as effective.

This article is a decent overview of the basics of case cooling:

https://www.howtogeek.com/303078/how-to-manage-your-pcs-fans-for-optimal-airflow-and-cooling/

If it was me, since I can put together PCs myself, I would start with the stock case fan setup and then measure the temps under heavy loads (e.g. Furmark plus CPU heat test(s)) and then decide whether or not more fans were needed.
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Reply #3036 on: June 07, 2019, 11:50:49 PM

8 GB is not enough for Chrome all by itself. Hell 16 GB is not enough for Chrome.

This is a little overstated. I have about 50 Chrome tabs open and haven't rebooted in over a month, and Chrome is only taking up 3GB. I did occasionally have to kill and restart Chrome when i had 8GB, but since the new system (with 16) I have never had to unless some particular page was misbehaving.

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Salamok
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Reply #3037 on: June 12, 2019, 09:27:21 AM

Ryzen 3's release on July 7th or something, If you are considering a Ryzen based system waiting 3 weeks is probably worth it.
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Reply #3038 on: June 13, 2019, 02:07:18 PM

Ryzen 3's release on July 7th or something, If you are considering a Ryzen based system waiting 3 weeks is probably worth it.

Getting the right motherboard might be a pain though.

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Reply #3039 on: June 14, 2019, 12:03:25 PM

First thing, though, is don't get rid of that 15" MacBook Pro. The 2015 model is the last of the good designs before Apple screwed it all up.

Sorry has been a bit since I read this thread but I feel like I need to say I'm WAY ahead of you here. I have the same one for work purposes and IBM will have to pry it from my cold, dead hands.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
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Sky
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Reply #3040 on: June 14, 2019, 12:21:14 PM

What's wrong with current macbooks? I've been pretty happy with mine. The touchbar is gimmicky, but that's Apple for you.
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Reply #3041 on: June 14, 2019, 12:37:12 PM

Trippy - Reading those links. Appreciate your input very much.

The GPU adventure never ends. My Win box has a GTX 650 Ti and that is probably good enough for her (which is how I manage to get into trouble a lot). I'm going to review the various GTX parts and decide eventually.

What's wrong with current macbooks? I've been pretty happy with mine. The touchbar is gimmicky, but that's Apple for you.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/macbook-pro-2018-disaster/

EDIT: Also https://www.digitaltrends.com/laptop-reviews/macbook-pro-15-2019-review/
« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 12:39:53 PM by Yegolev »

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
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Reply #3042 on: June 14, 2019, 01:11:43 PM

The Alienware m15 with base config with RTX 2060 (https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/alienware-m15-gaming-laptop/spd/alienware-m15-laptop/wnorn5chm155h) at $1680 makes me wonder what is wrong with it.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
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Reply #3043 on: June 14, 2019, 01:13:42 PM

What's wrong with current macbooks? I've been pretty happy with mine. The touchbar is gimmicky, but that's Apple for you.
The butterfly switch keyboard in the newer MacBook Pros (and MacBook) is very prone to breaking because of stuff getting stuck underneath the keys and because this is Apple you have to replace the entire keyboard to fix it (can't just pop off the keycap and clean it out). The latest model has a slightly different design (I've lost count but I think this is the 4th version now) to try and block stuff from getting underneath but the design is still fundamentally flawed. And it only took Apple over three years (if you count from the original MacBook 2015 design) to finally admit that this is a design flaw and will now fix the issue for free.

Another serious hardware issue with the cable connecting the display to the logic board is prone to breaking. And of course this being Apple it costs a shit ton of money to fix the issue.

You've already mentioned the touchbar which is a horrible horrible thing especially for developers.

And they got rid of the MagSafe connector.
Trippy
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Reply #3044 on: June 14, 2019, 01:14:53 PM

The Alienware m15 with base config with RTX 2060 (https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/alienware-m15-gaming-laptop/spd/alienware-m15-laptop/wnorn5chm155h) at $1680 makes me wonder what is wrong with it.
Hybrid drive, not SSD.
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