How to Rogue - WotLK Edition

[Morfiend]

SnD is useful on elites. Otherwise, generally not worth the trouble.

Or if you are working in an area with fast pulls, hit slice n dice right before a mob dies with combo points left on it.

[Draegan]

I think I'm going to delete my rogue and restart a new one and RAF with a trial account to hit 20 faster.  I wish my 80 DK could afford a heirloom weapon.

[Nebu]

I think I'm going to delete my rogue and restart a new one and RAF with a trial account to hit 20 faster.  I wish my 80 DK could afford a heirloom weapon.

I did exactly this and got a toon to level 50 by the time the 10 day trial was up.  Just turn down your graphics settings a tad and you can run a second account easily in the background.  Having a second computer makes this really easy. 

It reminded me of my dual boxing, DAoC days 

[Draegan]

I've dual boxed two toons up to 60 back in March with RAF.  It's just irritating.  :)

[Sheepherder]

Probably not worth to pick a weapon specialization while you level (unless you have heirlooms). Improved SS is a must, after that DW spec, riposte, the parry talent are probably good followups.

The only substitute for the weapon specs are dodge/parry talents, or pvp/situational use/cooldown reduction talents.  This might work purely as a weapon independent level build, otherwise you're just better off spending the talents in a weapon spec and accepting the loss if you don't have that weapon.

[March]

One thing I would be wary of at this point would be levelling a DPS only class, with dual-spec, every healer and tank is also a dps, so I'd imagine getting groups would be even more difficult as a class that can't be a tank/healer, but then again I'm a tank/healer on both my chars, so maybe I'm just seeing things through different glasses.

This is a good point... I'm wondering if WoW should really consider a 4th role beyond the Heal/Tank/DPS triad.

Crowd Control would be the obvious choice, but down that path there be dragons.

Perhaps some sort of "Captain" role where your actions buff damage, reduce resource constraints and generally make everyone around you better... active buffing like the various replenishment abilities and other damage buffs... just sort of juiced, focused and spiffed with some extra fun.

Sure, some might bitch about having to put away their dps epeen, but yeah, I'd rather have a utility/"captain" slot to make the run better than stand in Dalaran hoping for a dps slot.

[Merusk]

edit: Am I mistaken or is SND a requirement for doing anything with a rogue nowadays?  I even find it's necessary to have up and running even while just killing mobs for quests.

My rogue is PVP - Hemo specced and I've been leveling just fine without S&D.  Guess I should buy a 2nd spec now that I'm over 40 and see how combat plays out.

[Fordel]

Subtly just falls apart once you reach the level cap. It's all Assassination or Combat.

[Morfiend]

edit: Am I mistaken or is SND a requirement for doing anything with a rogue nowadays?  I even find it's necessary to have up and running even while just killing mobs for quests.

My rogue is PVP - Hemo specced and I've been leveling just fine without S&D.  Guess I should buy a 2nd spec now that I'm over 40 and see how combat plays out.

I thought the second spec unlocked at 80?

[Nebu]

I thought the second spec unlocked at 80?

It becomes available at level 40.... FOR 1000g!   

[Rasix]

edit: Am I mistaken or is SND a requirement for doing anything with a rogue nowadays?  I even find it's necessary to have up and running even while just killing mobs for quests.

My rogue is PVP - Hemo specced and I've been leveling just fine without S&D.  Guess I should buy a 2nd spec now that I'm over 40 and see how combat plays out.

I thought the second spec unlocked at 80?

Just your last glyph I think.  And for a rogue, your only base AE. 

[Fordel]

They really need to do something about those expansion abilities. When you are starting off at level 1 and your class/spec is balanced around some ability you'll only see at around level 65... 

[Merusk]

I thought the second spec unlocked at 80?

It becomes available at level 40.... FOR 1000g!   

That's only 5 days of doing all the Icecrown dailies you can get at Argent Crusader.  Doing all of them takes me about an hour and a half, tops.    I was sitting on like 10k gold when I stopped playing WOW for anything but raids two months go and started playing single player games.

[Ingmar]

They really need to do something about those expansion abilities. When you are starting off at level 1 and your class/spec is balanced around some ability you'll only see at around level 65... 

Or 75: hi2u lava burst.

[Shrike]

Not really. It's mostly important to raiding. Elementals don't PvP...oh...wait...

[Nebu]

Elementals don't PvP...oh...wait...

Gotta love WG dailies!

[Evildrider]

Sooo... I got lured back to WoW by some friends buying me a free WOTLK and paying for the sub.  I got my rogue to 80 on the day of the 3.3 patch and have managed to gear myself up decently so far.  I think my gearscore is 4700ish. 

Anyway, i'm currently running the 20/51/0 combat spec, but I have no clue what kind of dps I should be putting out.  Like I have recount and I'm currently around the 2.5k range.  However I keep hearing of rogues hitting insane levels of like 7-8k.

So what is a realistic like damage rating? 

[Merusk]

Aren't Rogues hitting that level of DPS also using their combat talents (AR and that "hit multiple targets one")  in large AOE groups while raid buffed?

[Selby]

Anyway, i'm currently running the 20/51/0 combat spec, but I have no clue what kind of dps I should be putting out.  Like I have recount and I'm currently around the 2.5k range.  However I keep hearing of rogues hitting insane levels of like 7-8k.

2.5k range is pretty low for boss fights or raid trash.  Most geared rogues I know do 4500-6000 depending on how much moving they have to do and how well they rotate.  If AoE comes into place, 7-8k is not unheard of, but that's more rarer than you think (really only Ony and a few raid areas need AoE like that to get into big numbers).  My rogue friend does 9500 on Ony-25, only because of the whelps.

[Sheepherder]

If the fight doesn't last long enough for you to get a 5 point S&D and 5 point Rupture up, ignore your DPS.

[Evildrider]

I mean pretty much with trash mob pulls in heroics I'm basically just getting a 2-3 point SnD and then spamming FoK while keeping my main focus on a caster in case I have to interrupt.  My dps is of course higher at this point depending on the amount of mobs and such. 

I don't think I'll ever get used to the whole "OMG GEARSCORE" indicating how good ppl are at the game.  It's rather annoying.

[Gobbeldygook]

My rogue alt with 7 pieces of 232 and the rest 200's pulls about 3.8k on a boss target dummy as HFB spec.  What I do in heroics depends on the type of trash, how geared the group is, and what group buffs I have.

I think one of my guild's rogues was pulling 8k on Saurfang this week with no blood beast cheese.  Our slacker logger hasn't uploaded the logs yet so I'm going from memory.

[Draegan]

So my newb rogue is 31/32 right now.  What poisons should I be using?  Right now I'm using Instant Poison II, but do I use that forever?  With Deadly and Wound also available when do you switch, or do you use two types?

Also, playing combat right now with two swords.  I heard you make the switch to daggers at around 70 or so?

[Rasix]

You don't have to switch to dagger at any time, but it would be pretty pointless before you have access to mutilate.

Instant Main/Deadly off seems to be common raider knowledge but I'm not sure it counts for much while leveling.  Mutilate builds require deadly, however.

[Gobbeldygook]

For leveling, go wounding/wounding.

[Sheepherder]

Also, playing combat right now with two swords.  I heard you make the switch to daggers at around 70 or so?

Combat daggers is a shitpile and only retards like it.

If you're talking about dagger specs (Assassination, Subtlety) they're fine for level grinding, but not noticeably more so than combat.

[Draegan]

For leveling, go wounding/wounding.

Why's that?

[Gobbeldygook]

For leveling, go wounding/wounding.

Why's that?

Wounding is better than instant unless you pick up the poison talents in mutilate because wounding procs three times as much as instant.  Deadly is only worthwhile if it actually has a chance to stack up.

[Draegan]

Yeah I noticed the additional procs last night when I got home.  Thanks for the tip.

I was reading that during raiding a lot of rogues switch weapons when you get a full deadly stack?  Do they still do that?  I'm probably never going to raid with this toon, but I was just curious.

[Rasix]

Yeah I noticed the additional procs last night when I got home.  Thanks for the tip.

I was reading that during raiding a lot of rogues switch weapons when you get a full deadly stack?  Do they still do that?  I'm probably never going to raid with this toon, but I was just curious.

No, they fixed it so if you have a full deadly stack, it automatically procs your other poison.

[Draegan]

Oh that's neet.