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Author Topic: Internet Dating: Everyone's still shallow  (Read 407329 times)
slog
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Reply #280 on: January 08, 2010, 06:51:27 PM

Notice how all the *actual* step-parents are keeping their mouths shut?  Yeah, that's because it's exactly like virgins talking about fucking, even if there's a non-virgin in the room, they might as well explain "blue" to the blind man.

If you don't believe in love as a transcendent emotion that defies logic, then there's *no* rational reason to date a single mother that doesn't verge into Grimm's Fairy Tales or Pedobear territory.  Love makes you stupid, but it's more fun that way.

--Dave

Sorry I wasn't paying attention and I didn't really read the thread.

I married my wife back in 1999 after dating for a few years.  I adopted her son and daughter a few years after we got married.  Both kids have now moved out, and I have 2 grand-kids.  Unfortunately, our daughter is Bi-polar so we have been raising our granddaughter since she really isn't capable. 

What did you want to know?


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Reply #281 on: January 08, 2010, 07:01:36 PM

I like how both of you are just making my point.

Don't fuck around with mothers. You're either in it to win it or you're an asshole.

Good talk though.

     :brickface:
MahrinSkel
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Reply #282 on: January 08, 2010, 07:02:12 PM

Sorry I wasn't paying attention and I didn't really read the thread.

I married my wife back in 1999 after dating for a few years.  I adopted her son and daughter a few years after we got married.  Both kids have now moved out, and I have 2 grand-kids.  Unfortunately, our daughter is Bi-polar so we have been raising our granddaughter since she really isn't capable. 

What did you want to know?
Nothing in particular (have two step-sons of my own, as well as my daughter from my first marriage).  I will throw something into the mix: Once you hit your thirties, you either keep dating 20-somethings (which will become increasingly difficult and pathetic), or you accept that women your age fall into three broad categories: Those that have children; Those that don't and find the ticking of their biological clock has become a deafening roar, driving out all rational thought, or; Those that do not want or cannot have children (not a problem if you don't either, big problem if you do).

Nobody makes it to 35 without baggage.  Sometimes that baggage talks back.  Deal with it.

--Dave

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schild
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Reply #283 on: January 08, 2010, 07:10:42 PM

Quote
Nobody makes it to 35 without baggage.

Six years to go, taking bets.

slog
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Reply #284 on: January 08, 2010, 07:13:40 PM

I like how both of you are just making my point.

Don't fuck around with mothers. You're either in it to win it or you're an asshole.

Good talk though.

     :brickface:


In my early 20s  I wouldn't even have considered dating a woman with a kid.  Eventually I figured out that the "rules" of relationships were all just bullshit that were just holding me back.

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Reply #285 on: January 08, 2010, 07:17:05 PM

What does rules have to do with a kid? Some people just don't want to deal with someone elses spawn.
gryeyes
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Reply #286 on: January 08, 2010, 08:07:00 PM

If you don't believe in love as a transcendent emotion that defies logic, then there's *no* rational reason to date a single mother that doesn't verge into Grimm's Fairy Tales or Pedobear territory.  Love makes you stupid, but it's more fun that way.

--Dave

Complete nonsense, you don't have to believe in fairy magic love to rationally justify a relationship with someone who has a child. But as younger male with "options" it seems a limiting choice. Its similar to why I would avoid a relationship with someone who has a terminal illness or some other giant burden. Im sure I can fall in love with an obese woman if I was really inclined to entertain the notion. But why would I at this stage in my life.

If you are older and winding down seeking stability whose romantic options are limited its perfectly rational to do so. Or say you instantly fall deeply in love with someone with a child (I suppose it could happen) that is also rational.  But before any bond is created it should be a giant red flag.
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Reply #287 on: January 08, 2010, 08:42:20 PM

blurf

What the fuck are you talking about?! The entire concept of "romantic love" exists as a social convention. Thats what it is, you can disagree with the convention but calling it "false" because it is in fact a convention is dumb. One can love outside of the constraints of total life long monogamy and nobody in this thread has asserted otherwise. But to say something is "false" because you personally have no fucking clue or experience about the subject is stupid. People can in fact have lifelong romantic relationships. It occurs and it tends to be the western cultural ideal. Whether you personally can attain the ideal has no bearing on the validity of the experience itself...at all.

This thread is like watching virgins talk about fucking.

Oh. Hi. I'm pretty sure you don't know what us virgins are talking about.  If you can muster a thesis out of whatever you just wrote, I'll try to respond.  Otherwise, I'm just going to assume what I wrote hit a little too close to home for your personal comfort.  It's okay, man.  Soldier on. Other fish in the sea, etc.

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gryeyes
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Reply #288 on: January 08, 2010, 08:49:12 PM

Yes, your brilliant assertion that "romantic love" being a product of cultural,physiological and psychological factors makes it mythic in nature was too high brow for me to follow.

Love is not a myth just because you have never seen a vagina.
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Reply #289 on: January 08, 2010, 08:56:46 PM


Myth was a bad choice of words.   sad

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Reply #290 on: January 08, 2010, 09:23:05 PM

Quote
Nobody makes it to 35 without baggage.

Six years to go, taking bets.



Agreed, that's a pretty bad generalization. Hell, at this point, I'd probably make it to 35 without a marriage.

Either that, or I'll fall into a common job cliche and marry some local at my first overseas post.  Ohhhhh, I see.

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Reply #291 on: January 08, 2010, 11:34:18 PM

My point is that it's damn near impossible to find a quality, compatible mate for life.

Wut?  Is this most peoples' experience?  I'm not trolling or anything, but I'm an ugly, irascible son of a bitch and even my experience is completely the opposite of that.

This.

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Reply #292 on: January 09, 2010, 12:09:33 AM

Myth was a bad choice of words.   sad

Agreed it was extremely stupid. But the underlying logic is just as faulty. Romantic life long relationships are a cultural IDEAL, and like all ideals its representation in the meat world is a bit different than the simplified romance novel version. But just because love is a matter of psychology,culture and physiology does not denigrate or lessen the experience. Which regardless of your choice of words is exactly what you were trying to convey.

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Reply #293 on: January 09, 2010, 01:45:51 AM

My point is that it's damn near impossible to find a quality, compatible mate for life.

Wut?  Is this most peoples' experience?  I'm not trolling or anything, but I'm an ugly, irascible son of a bitch and even my experience is completely the opposite of that.

This.

Yeah, this.  Many posting in this thread falls into one of three categories-

(1)  Asexual or pretty close to it, and engaging in standard F13 cynic-emo-goth schtick.

(2)  Had a rough relationship/marriage and cynical because of that.  

(3)  Cheated on their significant other (or someone they like cheated on a significant other), so trying to say that long-term relationships can't exist scientifically and our genes say that we must be promiscuous etc. etc.- ergo, what happened wasn't morally blameworthy at all! 

All three categories are not exactly great to take advice from.  Some relationships work and are real and lasting and genuine and happy, some aren't.  Ignore the doomsayers who predict 100% failure and misery.  
« Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 01:52:48 AM by Triforcer »

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slog
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Reply #294 on: January 09, 2010, 05:00:35 AM

What does rules have to do with a kid? Some people just don't want to deal with someone elses spawn.

I was just referring to self imposed limits.


I can completely understand not wanting to raise someone else's kids.  It can be an extremely difficult road to travel.

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Reply #295 on: January 09, 2010, 06:28:24 AM

My point is that it's damn near impossible to find a quality, compatible mate for life.

Wut?  Is this most peoples' experience?  I'm not trolling or anything, but I'm an ugly, irascible son of a bitch and even my experience is completely the opposite of that.

This.

Yeah, this.  Many posting in this thread falls into one of three categories-

(1)  Asexual or pretty close to it, and engaging in standard F13 cynic-emo-goth schtick.

(2)  Had a rough relationship/marriage and cynical because of that.  

(3)  Cheated on their significant other (or someone they like cheated on a significant other), so trying to say that long-term relationships can't exist scientifically and our genes say that we must be promiscuous etc. etc.- ergo, what happened wasn't morally blameworthy at all!

All three categories are not exactly great to take advice from.  Some relationships work and are real and lasting and genuine and happy, some aren't.  Ignore the doomsayers who predict 100% failure and misery.  
(4) Assumptive jackasses.

So, which one of those 3 do I fall into, ye olde gaijin?

Seriously though, for how bad this thread could've turned out, I expected much worse than what we got. This is the internet, you have to expect a certain quotient of "HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN TO ME?" posts in any thread about dating.

« Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 06:30:16 AM by schild »
Signe
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Reply #296 on: January 09, 2010, 07:37:39 AM

I don't see anything wrong with not having been married by the time you're 35.  Or 45.  Or ever.  It doesn't mean you can't have good relationships that involve sex - even long term.  I know quite a few people (mostly men) who do just this and are very happy about it.  In fact, I know several (mostly men) who flit from one short term affair to another and very much enjoy that sort of thing and wouldn't have it any other way.  A few of them even have kids because they wanted some but didn't want a long term relationship.  Not that it's a good idea if you fool the other person into thinking you do but c'est la vie.   

As for Schild - I don't know exactly what "category" he's in, since now we have categories.  From everything he's said to me, and around F13, he seems to have chosen not to have a significant relationship with a woman for whatever reason.  It's a nice thing when you decide something and it works out for you, no?  I don't know what category I'm in, either, but I want to know.  (I'm not being snarky or anything, by the way)

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Reply #297 on: January 09, 2010, 07:47:29 AM

All three categories are not exactly great to take advice from.  Some relationships work and are real and lasting and genuine and happy, some aren't.  Ignore the doomsayers who predict 100% failure and misery.  

This thread is an interesting one, that's for sure.

Lorekeep - serious question regarding your Aspergers. Medically/clinically diagnosed or self-diagnosed?

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Reply #298 on: January 09, 2010, 07:51:55 AM

Signe- I completely agree with all of that.

My minor quarrel with this thread is that people mostly aren't saying "I have had shitty luck, my relationships don't work."  Its more like "things didn't work for me, therefore love does not exist for anyone, anywhere, ever."  Its possible- just possible- that some people can be happy even if one poster isn't. 

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Reply #299 on: January 09, 2010, 07:53:20 AM

The problem, dear Horatio, lies less in our relationships than in ourselves.

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Reply #300 on: January 09, 2010, 08:54:17 AM

On children I still have to agree with Schild.  Not everyone is cut-out to deal with kids and I would rather someone recognize this than think they can handle it and be a bad parent.  It's not a deal-breaker for me, however it would be a huge mitigating factor in whether the relationship could work.  At my age almost all of my old friends have kids now.  We don't speak the same language and our priorities are very different.  That is a huge hurdle in making a connection with someone.

My point is that it's damn near impossible to find a quality, compatible mate for life.
Wut?  Is this most peoples' experience?  I'm not trolling or anything, but I'm an ugly, irascible son of a bitch and even my experience is completely the opposite of that.
This.

All three categories are not exactly great to take advice from.  Some relationships work and are real and lasting and genuine and happy, some aren't.  Ignore the doomsayers who predict 100% failure and misery.  

It's not that I don't believe quality relationships can exist, it's that I believe you can't force luck into finding the right person.  For some they have the right personality traits and have an easier time.  Others just have crap luck.  Even those with some trait they would think is a deal-breaker, may find it simply not as big a deal as they think, or happened to have a good pool within which to draw where it didn't matter.

As the personal anecdote, keeping in mind I fall into Tri's (1) category, I've known dozens of people whom I could be happy with had circumstances been different.  But with them being in a happy relationship or not being gay or whatever reason, there was no basis for a romantic relationship.  Timing and luck are simply factors we cannot control for.  Because of that, some people are going to always draw the short stick.   I do think the internet and dating sites can help create opportunities, however they're not for everyone, and sometimes they still won't overcome chance.

Do what you can to increase your odds, but ultimately it happens or it doesn't.  For those it doesn't, and are interested in companionship, it is bound to make them a tad bit jaded and negative about people's prospects, especially their own.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
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Reply #301 on: January 09, 2010, 09:44:29 AM

Watching my parents did a lot to cure me of thinking marriage was some sort of magical event that turns your life into a happy fantasy land.  My father made my mother very, very unhappy.  My sister used to beg her to leave him but she never would.  Sometimes I'm still surprised I'm actually married after seeing theirs at work.  When I was young, my only marriage plan was not to have one!

Sjofn seems to have a marriage very much like mine.    Geez.  We don't even argue except when one wants the other to make a decision about something.  Usually dinner.  Ohhhhh, I see.   We don't raise our voices or anything, though.  Again, the only time we've been separated is due to his work (I totally get the going off on an airplane thing) or when he goes a long distance for a music gig.  And, of course, this last time due to a family tragedy.  I'm pretty sure this sort of "togetherness" would drive a lot of people insane but it suits us.

Most married people I know met in clubs, so I'm not getting why that's ruled out as a good place.  Maybe because a lot of my work before meeting Righ was club oriented.  I don't know.  Some of them worked and some didn't but I never got the impression that it had anything to do with where they met.  I also don't believe that you're limited to a certain type of person if you look for love in clubs.  Rave clubs, maybe, to a certain degree - but just normal clubs?

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Reply #302 on: January 09, 2010, 10:07:19 AM

My minor quarrel with this thread is that people mostly aren't saying "I have had shitty luck, my relationships don't work."  Its more like "things didn't work for me, therefore love does not exist for anyone, anywhere, ever."

Show me the quote that contains a statement like your second.  I know I didn't say anything of the sort.  My comment above, which has been twisted into something more cynical than I could ever even think, was meant to say "happy, healthy, and lasting relationships are the exception rather than the rule".  

I'm not a doomsayer.  I believe healthy relationships can be found and am optimistic that they exist for everyone.  I just believe that most relationships fail because the two people involved chose their mate poorly.  Many of these bad choices can be directly linked to an unrealistic set of expectations.  

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Reply #303 on: January 09, 2010, 10:36:10 AM

Most married people I know met in clubs, so I'm not getting why that's ruled out as a good place.
Every time I went to clubs, it was obvious that most people were there purely to drink and have a good time.  Which is fine, but at closing time it became an obvious "I don't want to go home alone!" attitude from many people who were quite drunk and were making very poor decisions at the same time.  And of course I had to drive them home while they verbally abused me about how they were going home alone.  If you can meet in a club and make it work, but at the clubs I went to, people were not interested in me (had I even been looking) and there was rarely a "good time" to be had.
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Reply #304 on: January 09, 2010, 11:08:19 AM

From my experience clubbing (at a techno pseudohip hop club) became filled with a lot more pretentious people as the average age group got older.

That's why I prefer mixing it up at more relaxed places like ballroom, swing dancing clubs.

The barrier there is your dancing skills and I can respect that. The increasing vapidness at the other clubs I mentioned I can't respect.

OP is assuming its somewhat of a design-goal of eve to make players happy.
this is however not the case.
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Reply #305 on: January 09, 2010, 11:21:19 AM

Well, that's why I mentioned Rave type clubs as being different.  Of course, I'm not sure I can even remember the last club of any sort I went to for anything other than something work related.  Still, when I did, I met a lot of really nice people and saw a lot of them hook up and even stay hooked up.  Even hitched up! 

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Reply #306 on: January 09, 2010, 02:05:44 PM

Myth was a bad choice of words.   sad

Agreed it was extremely stupid. But the underlying logic is just as faulty. Romantic life long relationships are a cultural IDEAL, and like all ideals its representation in the meat world is a bit different than the simplified romance novel version. But just because love is a matter of psychology,culture and physiology does not denigrate or lessen the experience. Which regardless of your choice of words is exactly what you were trying to convey.

I'm pretty sure it's a norm, and not an ideal.  It may be your ideal, and well, that's cute.  But just because it's a norm doesn't mean it's got some inherent value other than in a Darwinian sense.  So grats, and thanks for trolling.

And in case anyone else is confused by my poor choice of words.  When I said love is a myth, I meant to say, "That late adolescent mating drive that we have all experienced - the one trying to convince us that 'love' is some kind of transcendent communion with the universe - is a total construct of scientifically measurable phenomenon."  I think the awareness of that is empowering.  It's a little bit unwieldy, and it would make the worlds shittiest wedding vow.  But you can't really argue with that (unless you're religious, and please don't go there).  However it's possible that in an alternate universe, you did fuck that cheerleader's brains out and live happily ever after, so keep hope alive.  Happy Endie?

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Reply #307 on: January 09, 2010, 02:48:43 PM

Hey dude, I only disagreed with you the once, a couple of pages back.

I think your view of love is jaded and I'm glad I don't feel like that.  Which is to say that I disagree.  But whatever floats your boat (or leaves it stranded on a reef, in this case).

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Reply #308 on: January 09, 2010, 02:56:57 PM

Wasn't meant as an insult, more of a joke.  Just my cynical view in reference to the many worlds possibilities of quantum physics.

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Reply #309 on: January 09, 2010, 02:59:54 PM

Describing love as either "transcendence" or "construct" are both equally wankery. No one in a relationship is actually harping on about transcendence. It's like you're defining people by your own limited view of love.. As if everyone in love or believes in it is in some Hallmark card delusion. In practice, they are down to earth and just thinking about one person, without relating to some context as large as the "universe". They are simply happy with that person within the smaller context of their own lives.

And breaking it all down to construct is just having missing the forest for the trees. So you see the trees. Who gives a fuck. All the nitty-gritty details of a human being form up a new phenomenon - a person. And sometimes, two personalities/people are the right kind of "constructs" for one another. How that renders "love" meaningless is beyond me. It's still noteworthy enough if it works.
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Reply #310 on: January 09, 2010, 03:33:37 PM

It's obvious by this thread that love is a battlefield!

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Reply #311 on: January 09, 2010, 03:44:18 PM

Weak.
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Reply #312 on: January 09, 2010, 04:08:41 PM

Heartache to heartache...

So you see the trees. Who gives a fuck.

I do!  I think being blinded by love and missing out on those trees would be a travesty.  Like you said, tomato tomato.  I'm okay with you believing in love, if you're okay with me believing it's just chemical secretions - and as long as you don't take it to the extreme which is what the transcending construct is mainly referring to.  For example the people whose number is in question who allow themselves to be blinded by it to the point where they cease to function properly in its absence.


Quote
It's still noteworthy enough if it works.

It only works in the Darwinian sense, jaded though that may be, as far as I'm concerned.  I mean, if you were an amoeba who successfully split yourself in two, would that still be noteworthy in any other way but to marvel at the complexity of life? 

Also, I'm not defining love by my limited view.  I'm just trying to be objective.  And my view is all I've got.

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Reply #313 on: January 09, 2010, 04:18:47 PM


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Reply #314 on: January 09, 2010, 05:23:21 PM

For example the people whose number is in question who allow themselves to be blinded by it to the point where they cease to function properly in its absence.

What do you have in mind when you say not "functioning properly"? Not having love is not the end of the world for many people. Or rather, they know it could come around some time. Or if they went through a breakup and lost what they thought was love, they pick up again eventually. They still function properly, go to work, brush their teeth, etc., yet can still hope for it. People who fall apart because of the absence of love have additional issues, and I wouldn't characterize the whole thing because of them.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 05:28:28 PM by stray »
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