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Author Topic: Internet Dating: Everyone's still shallow  (Read 407548 times)
stray
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Reply #210 on: January 07, 2010, 03:31:17 PM

The ladies love it when you're "all mysteriously angry" - Oghren  awesome, for real
Endie
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Reply #211 on: January 07, 2010, 03:56:47 PM

Yep, it's like what Lorekeep is saying: that miasma of Weltschmerz, suspicion, self-pity and misogyny/misanthropy is going to send potential partners running - well, the sane ones who're not looking for someone filled with Weltschmerz, suspicion, self-pity and misogyny/misanthropy.

Call them shallow little flibbertygibbits but the average girl, speaking in broad generalisations, is inexplicably attracted to balanced, confident, happy men who can at least fake a degree of empathy for their fellow humans.  Characters in Nick Cave songs may get away with the grim anti-hero with a dark past thing, but not so much if you're just batting for that girl from accounts.  I loathe most people, as a rule, but I'm not going to let on about that in the first - oh I dunno - few years of a relationship.  My wife knows, but she thinks it's sweet.

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schild
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Reply #212 on: January 07, 2010, 03:57:53 PM

Quote
the average girl, speaking in broad generalisations, is inexplicably attracted to balanced, confident, happy men

lol
Endie
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Reply #213 on: January 07, 2010, 04:05:31 PM

Quote
the average girl, speaking in broad generalisations, is inexplicably attracted to balanced, confident, happy men

lol

I know that it's a waste of time trying to discuss this when all you do is definitely-not-in-a-snide-way quote a bit that you have anecdotal evidence isn't universally true despite me caveating to exactly that effect, but just because you once knew a girl who was a complete nightmare, or because you get your evidence on what women are attracted to by watching domestic violence calls on Cops, doesn't mean that being balanced, confident and happy isn't a better dating strategy than immersing yourself in bitterness and self-loathing.

Edit: spelling and fuck this keyboard

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schild
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Reply #214 on: January 07, 2010, 04:08:24 PM

I'm pretty sure girls will flat out tell you they don't know what they want if you can get them to be honest for a minute and will explain that what they want changes 100% with any given age bracket, as small as they decide that age bracket should be.

Edit: I don't communicate with people in real life that are a complete nightmare. You can join Stray in the Assumptive-Bastard Box if you'd like.
LK
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Reply #215 on: January 07, 2010, 04:09:09 PM

I do love me a cynical, jaded at everything woman, though. We can commiserate and take heart that people suck! I think they have a name for that type of woman... is it British?

"Then there's the double-barreled shotgun from Doom 2 - no-one within your entire household could be of any doubt that it's been fired because it sounds like God slamming a door on his fingers." - Yahtzee Croshaw
schild
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Reply #216 on: January 07, 2010, 04:09:39 PM

I do love me a cynical, jaded at everything woman, though. We can commiserate and take heart that people suck! I think they have a name for that type of woman... is it British?

Not british, fat.
waffel
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Reply #217 on: January 07, 2010, 04:19:23 PM

I don't believe love can happen to me because I can't see how anyone would be interested in me.

I had one really serious relationship. I met her on the internet, in a muse. We hit it off immediately, and I fell in love with this person in text almost immediately. But it was a very long distance relationship. Eventually we met up and Yeah it was great. But the thing is, when we were together she never told me she loved me (except once when she was drunk). She insisted we were friends that were having sex. When we were apart she said she loved me all the time... until we met again and this look came into her face and she insisted we were really friends again. Eventually she told me she could not see me again as she had to give herself totally to her Uni career and had no time for a relationship. 2 weeks later she was happily shaked up with another guy who she married.

So I learned from that that people can love me on the internet, like the clever way I use words and other things. But not the real me, not the person you would meet in the flesh. Nothing in the following 12 years has changed that conclusion.

I had something similiar happen a few years ago. Met a girl on the internet (not through a dating site), became friends, she was unhappy with her husband (she was married a few years(and we were both in our early 20s)) and I was there for her, yada yada yada, long story short, she separated from her husband, and we started fucking (long distance) After a few months of the "I love you so much" back and forth she ended up screwing some chick (she was bi). Next day she tells me "oh ya I messed around with so and so, also, I can't handle a relationship now" Fast forward a month and she's back with her husband.

Anyway, that was my first and last relationship. After being bummed out for a year I guess I came to the realization that I'm happy being single. Actually happy. After seeing and hearing about other relationships my friends are in and out of, I realized that shit is too much of a hassle. There are far, far too many ways to get hurt playing the game that I'd rather just keep it simple. For every friend I have that gets married, I have 5x others in and out of shitty relationship.

On the flip side, at times I do get lonely. Fuck it, everyone does. I can honestly say was a lot more lonely and down after that first bad relationship then I've ever been single. The only way I'd ever get back in a relationship is if I became friends with the girl first. I'm not interested in random dating and looking for a relationship, I'm much more interested in looking for friendship. If it turned into something else, awesome.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is - just be happy. You don't have to date, you don't have to be in relationships and despite what your parents might tell you - you don't have to hurry up and make grandkids. Once I realized I don't have to be in a relationship to be happy, and started realizing all the negative shit that comes out of relationships, waking up in the morning became a lot easier.

edit: I'm not trying to say you aren't already happy.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 04:26:02 PM by waffel »
Selby
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Reply #218 on: January 07, 2010, 04:37:05 PM

Yeah, "No one will ever love me because something is wrong with me," is often a self-fulfilling thing.
Everyone has something wrong with them.  Luckily for some of us we have identified it ;-)  Sadly it ended my last relationship but at least we get to deal with it so we can hopefully not end the next (whenever I get around to caring about that) with it.

As far as not liking people, I like them in small doses and groups.  Large groups of 25+ people, most of whom I don't know?  Not my scene, I shut down.  The ex loved that scene and schmoozing with all the different people she knew and would leave me to hold her purse and drive her drunk self home at bar closing time (or later).  I used to think I hated everyone, but then I realized I just don't care for putting up with every kind of drama people give out, and just didn't like dealing with it and it showed in my attitude towards large groups.  And at least living the single life I get to play video games again, so my bitterness level is offset by my happiness level a bit ;-)
stray
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Reply #219 on: January 07, 2010, 05:04:23 PM

Quote
the average girl, speaking in broad generalisations, is inexplicably attracted to balanced, confident, happy men

lol

I know that it's a waste of time trying to discuss this when all you do is definitely-not-in-a-snide-way quote a bit that you have anecdotal evidence isn't universally true despite me caveating to exactly that effect, but just because you once knew a girl who was a complete nightmare, or because you get your evidence on what women are attracted to by watching domestic violence calls on Cops, doesn't mean that being balanced, confident and happy isn't a better dating strategy than immersing yourself in bitterness and self-loathing.

Edit: spelling and fuck this keyboard

Perhaps he's just reacting to how you wrote it.. Seemed like you were saying guys needed to be uber sensitive or something, or that you have to cover up your meaner side for years. Heh.. I don't know anyone who needs that. Guys or girls. But also, I know it can go downhill if you pick the wrong time to be insensitive, even jokingly. That's would be the definition of selfish... ugh, something I admit to having my own bad luck with. Luck is not the word. Umm, fuck up more like.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

Not sure what I'm saying.. umm.. well placed sensitivity goes a long way, I guess. Not doing so will inevitably result in fail. Otherwise, it's ok to be yourself.

[edit] I'm beginning to hate that smiley.. It's too damn cheeky.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 05:14:25 PM by stray »
Signe
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Reply #220 on: January 07, 2010, 05:40:39 PM

Cats are the answer.  Cats are always the answer.

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Reply #221 on: January 07, 2010, 05:42:04 PM

It's true, find a single girl who has a bunch of pets and impress her if you're desperate for a relationship that only you can screw up.
dusematic
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Reply #222 on: January 07, 2010, 06:53:51 PM

I do love me a cynical, jaded at everything woman, though. We can commiserate and take heart that people suck! I think they have a name for that type of woman... is it British?

Not british, fat.

lol
Sjofn
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Reply #223 on: January 07, 2010, 07:02:52 PM

Yeah, "No one will ever love me because something is wrong with me," is often a self-fulfilling thing.
Everyone has something wrong with them.  Luckily for some of us we have identified it ;-)  Sadly it ended my last relationship but at least we get to deal with it so we can hopefully not end the next (whenever I get around to caring about that) with it.

Sure, everyone has something wrong with them. I can rattle off plenty of things wrong with me! But only when I am in my deepest periods of despair do I think that makes me unlovable. And I am pretty sure I am not attractive at all when I am having one of those episodes.

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Selby
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Reply #224 on: January 07, 2010, 07:12:20 PM

But only when I am in my deepest periods of despair do I think that makes me unlovable.
Some people have issues that make it really really hard to love them ;-)  And no, I doubt most people are attractive when sitting around wallowing in despair over how no one will ever love them.  I know a girl who is like that... and it's just not pleasant to be around.  Ever.
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Reply #225 on: January 07, 2010, 09:08:03 PM

TLDR

Holy fucking shit, good thing I was too busy sucking at poker and working to jump back on this one.

But Lorekeeper...stay out of the clubs, they're not going to help. I know it sucks and is a pain in the ass, but you've just got to put yourself out there and meet some different people. If you're not comfortable with the clubs or whatever, you're setting yourself up for failure - women are going to pick up on the discomfort and lack of confidence (as much as I HATE the cliche), and you'll get nowhere in all likelihood.

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gryeyes
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Reply #226 on: January 07, 2010, 09:48:46 PM

I sure got a snort out of schilds bold declaration that love is love that was preceded by his condemnation of generalizations  swamp poop

Love can mean any number of psychological and even physiological phenomena. Love and I will use it in the sense of "consuming passion" variety can be easy, then again there are people who are entirely incapable of experiencing it. The type of "love" that tends to be easy (and we all know people who are constantly in "love") is really about them being extremely emotionally dependent on another. They have a gap that must be filled and so they fill it. Whether you want define that experience as "love" is up to you, but what is certain is that its not the same as the previous type. But what we can be certain of is that anyone who makes such broad generalizations about "love" simply does not know what the fuck they are talking about.



stray
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Reply #227 on: January 07, 2010, 10:55:03 PM

People who simply need gaps to be filled aren't exactly loving you.. I mean, the whole thing with love is that "love", as in the verb, as in the action of giving affection to another person or thing.. isn't some sort of behavior meant target back at their own personal needs. Loving someone implicitly states that you're directing outward. If anything, they want to make the object of their affection feel even better.. they want to make their lives filled.. not necessarily the other way around.
Musashi
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Reply #228 on: January 07, 2010, 11:52:23 PM

'Love' is a myth.  It's a chemical floating in your dome tricking you.  That simple.  Darwin.  The end.

It's okay to hate people.  Most of us hate you, anyway.


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Reply #229 on: January 08, 2010, 12:51:42 AM

Whoah, stray. I certainly wasn't saying "be sensitive". I admit you need a good sense of timing for when to make a joke about her dying grandmother, but the rom-com version of "sensitivity"? Nah. Whatever she might say, the first time she sees you crying something will change.

No, I was just saying to lorekeep that his persona of distrusting bitterness will lose out to the guy with the confident and happy attitude for the majority of sane potential partners. Even among goths...

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stray
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Reply #230 on: January 08, 2010, 12:59:11 AM

Fair enough :)
Endie
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Reply #231 on: January 08, 2010, 01:17:20 AM

'Love' is a myth.  It's a chemical floating in your dome tricking you.  That simple.  Darwin.  The end.

Erm, so what you're saying is that love is a "myth".  An invented story, idea or thing with no provable basis in fact.  But that it is also a measurable and observable series of electro-chemical exchanges occuring primarily in the limbic cortex, where neural responses in the amygdala stimulate increasingly addictive pleasure-reward responses in the nucleus accumbens while provoking cardiovascular reactions through the cingulate gyrus and the hypothalamus?

I think you have to choose one, really.

Also, I wish that we had a philosophy thread here, where it was possible to discuss things like the idea that one's own brain can meaningfully "trick" oneself, other than on the facile level interpretation of sensory data.  Preferably in the form of a proper Symposium with drink and dancing girls.

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gryeyes
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Reply #232 on: January 08, 2010, 02:57:53 AM

Apparently all emotions are myths because they correlate to physiological changes.
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Reply #233 on: January 08, 2010, 03:06:56 AM

Apparently all emotions are myths because they correlate to physiological changes.

Ah, kinda like the Medusa.  I wish he'd explained that.

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stray
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Reply #234 on: January 08, 2010, 03:27:01 AM

Trying to define love in a vacuum is kind of pointless. I guess it has some definitions.. But objectifying it too much on it's own gives an excuse to get carried away with explanations about hormones and chemistry, as if love is some thing itself that needs to be examined (and in turn, disspelled). I think it's better defined by specific people. It's a relationship, just like any other. And relationships aren't "mythical". They actually exist. Some you are born into. Some are built into friendships. Some into lovers. But they exist for a ton of reasons, be it social factors, intellectual, behavioral, physical, genetic, philosophical, etc, etc. All the dynamics that make some people click. It's not merely "chemical". Not sure what Darwin has to do with anything either. Darwin would tell you to survive, multiply, and not be such a self defeatist dipshit.

"True love" may be a myth, since you can probably be compatible with many people.. if you're lucky enough to find them.

[edit] Not even sure why I addressed that. He's got to be joking.

[edit] On second thought, Darwin married his cousin. Probably not doing himself any favors there.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 04:04:06 AM by stray »
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Reply #235 on: January 08, 2010, 06:48:04 AM

Stray, I totally agree with you that asserting that love is a purely chemical phenomenon is facile.  It smacks of the deterministic, mechanistic world-view of the 18th and 19th centuries that gave us the blind watchmaker view of the universe, and which disappeared in the first decades of the 20th century.  Darwin was an integral and important part of that post-enlightenment world, and we cannot criticise him for not anticipating what was to come sixty years later.

Obviously, I'm not saying that we cannot detect chemical changes in someonebody who is in love: enhanced seratonin levels, hormonal changes and so on.  But the ability to observe and describe is not the same as being able to predict or even, sometimes, fully understand.

As the geneticist and evolutionary biologist JBS Haldane said: "Now my own suspicion is that the Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose."
« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 06:53:33 AM by Endie »

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Reply #236 on: January 08, 2010, 06:51:35 AM

Asserting that love is nothing but chemical responses will net the same response as telling people that the mind and a soul don't actually exist.

It might be true, it might not be.  Either way though, good luck convincing people one way or another and all it does is cause heated arguments that never get resolved.
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Reply #237 on: January 08, 2010, 07:32:49 AM

Love does not consist of gazing at one another, but looking in the same direction.

Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Hic sunt dracones.
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Reply #238 on: January 08, 2010, 07:36:24 AM

Love does not consist of gazing at one another, but looking in the same direction.

Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Eugh.  Seriously.

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Draegan
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Reply #239 on: January 08, 2010, 07:36:36 AM

God damn you people are jaded and grumpy.

I'm proposing to my girlfriend next week.  Yes I love her.   Heart

Cheers.
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Reply #240 on: January 08, 2010, 07:40:20 AM

God damn you people are jaded and grumpy.

Marriage will do that.  awesome, for real

I've been married for going on 5 years now and my wife and I are still very happy together.

However we have a lot more rough spots then I would of expected, I don't really think anyone should get married until they've lived together for at least a year.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the Universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
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Reply #241 on: January 08, 2010, 07:44:44 AM

God damn you people are jaded and grumpy.

I'm proposing to my girlfriend next week.  Yes I love her.   Heart

Cheers.

Not even slightly: I'm apparently one of the few people in this thread who is happily in love, married, secure in the life-long nature of that commitment and looking back on many years of fun, enjoyable relationships which I don't regret a minute of.

But that quote was the sort of thing I'd expect to see in in terrible greetings cards or being forwarded in 1990s email chains.

Anyway, best of luck and I'm very happy for you.  So long as she says yes, at least.  awesome, for real

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Draegan
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Reply #242 on: January 08, 2010, 07:54:35 AM

I'm 100% confident she will.  Thanks.
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Reply #243 on: January 08, 2010, 08:07:30 AM

Eugh.  Seriously.

"Love is the delightful interval between meeting a beutiful girl and discovering she looks like a haddock."

John Barrymore.

Better?  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

Hic sunt dracones.
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Reply #244 on: January 08, 2010, 11:10:22 AM

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is - just be happy. You don't have to date, you don't have to be in relationships and despite what your parents might tell you - you don't have to hurry up and make grandkids. Once I realized I don't have to be in a relationship to be happy, and started realizing all the negative shit that comes out of relationships, waking up in the morning became a lot easier.

This. Until you can be happy alone, you can not be happy with someone else.

Grimwell
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