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Author Topic: Internet Dating: Everyone's still shallow  (Read 407402 times)
Strazos
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Reply #70 on: January 04, 2010, 07:56:39 PM

I believe someone is confusing you and I.

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shiznitz
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Reply #71 on: January 06, 2010, 09:31:58 AM

One of the reasons I liked online dating was that it got rid of the deal-breaker questions, right away:

Do you want kids?
What religion are you and how religious are you?
Do you have pets?
Do you smoke?
How much money do you Make?

Some of these are questions that are not supposed to be brought up according to dating etiquette.  Conventional wisdom says you are not supposed to bring up child-rearing until the relationship has been going for months.  WTF?  I have a friend that was in a 10 year relationship that he had to break out of because he wanted kids and she didn't.

On most dating sites that information is in the summary.

Agreed. Online dating makes it easier to separate those who want relationships from those just playing around. That distinction is much harder to make when you meet someone in a casual setting. 

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Reply #72 on: January 06, 2010, 10:44:10 AM

One of the reasons I liked online dating was that it got rid of the deal-breaker questions, right away:

Do you want kids?
What religion are you and how religious are you?
Do you have pets?
Do you smoke?
How much money do you Make?

Some of these are questions that are not supposed to be brought up according to dating etiquette.  Conventional wisdom says you are not supposed to bring up child-rearing until the relationship has been going for months.  WTF?  I have a friend that was in a 10 year relationship that he had to break out of because he wanted kids and she didn't.

On most dating sites that information is in the summary.

Seems to me that if you're looking for a quality match, you'd be more open-minded to the answers to those questions to begin with.  Often, the best women I've ever met had a "deal breaker" and I would have missed my relationship with them had I let it actually be a "deal breaker". 

The only deal breakers for me are questions of morals and ethics and few, if any will be honest about those on teh interweb. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
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Reply #73 on: January 06, 2010, 10:48:21 AM

There's a fallacy in your logic, Nebu. I don't think you can really stretch the definition of deal-breaker. It means one thing, going the wrong direction means the deal is off. Being open-minded makes them something other than deal-breakers.
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Reply #74 on: January 06, 2010, 10:50:04 AM

There's a fallacy in your logic, Nebu. I don't think you can really stretch the definition of deal-breaker. It means one thing, going the wrong direction means the deal is off. Being open-minded makes them something other than deal-breakers.

I'm just suggesting that not dating a woman because she has a kid (or some other superficial reason) is a fundamentally flawed decision.  Then again, most relationships are doomed to failure to begin with.  May as well just end them before they even start... AMIRITE?

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
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Reply #75 on: January 06, 2010, 10:52:59 AM

Quote
I'm just suggesting that not dating a woman because she has a kid (or some other superficial reason) is a fundamentally flawed decision.

There's absolutely NOTHING superficial about having a kid nor is it fundamentally flawed. It is in fact one of the most major things someone who doesn't have a kid looks at in a potential mate, and you know it. It's probably - outside of a raging case of AIDS - the most important decision one makes before jumping into that shit because mothers are a different breed from "women."

Quote
May as well just end them before they even start... AMIRITE?

Don't dodge the point.
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Reply #76 on: January 06, 2010, 11:01:29 AM

There's absolutely NOTHING superficial about having a kid nor is it fundamentally flawed. It is in fact one of the most major things someone who doesn't have a kid looks at in a potential mate, and you know it. It's probably - outside of a raging case of AIDS - the most important decision one makes before jumping into that shit because mothers are a different breed from "women."

Don't dodge the point.

Not dodging the point.  We differ in opinion.  If someone is genuinely interested in a mate for life, then they're interested in the woman herself.  The child will be mostly out of the picture in a matter of years.  It's hard enough to find someone worth sharing a lifetime with.  I'm not going to throw a potential mate out just because she may have a child.   You see it differently... it's your right and your life.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Ingmar
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Reply #77 on: January 06, 2010, 11:04:13 AM

The child will be mostly out of the picture in a matter of years.

...what?

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Reply #78 on: January 06, 2010, 11:05:49 AM

Yea, I chortled a bit at that too.
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Reply #79 on: January 06, 2010, 11:06:48 AM

The child will be mostly out of the picture in a matter of years.

...what?


Children become adults.  They move on and have their own lives.  

You know what I meant.   

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
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Reply #80 on: January 06, 2010, 11:35:02 AM

The problem phrase was "a matter of years."

More like, a quarter of your adult life, minimum.

I find it strange you're arguing the definition of a deal-breaker. It's not like there's gray area in the word. Everyone has different deal-breakers, and most of the stuff above for MOST people falls under that category.

ESPECIALLY kids.
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Reply #81 on: January 06, 2010, 11:42:39 AM

Children become adults.  They move on and have their own lives.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahhahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

No, really...

Do you have kids? Current readings point to "no"

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Reply #82 on: January 06, 2010, 11:44:13 AM

Nebu, being older than a lot of us, has a different perspective on this, I think.

I'm coming at it from a early 30s point of view, where "kids" means more than a decade, maybe two, before they are out of the house. Nebu's a bit older, so it might only be a matter of years for him.
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Reply #83 on: January 06, 2010, 11:45:39 AM

Someone failed Leykis 101.

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Reply #84 on: January 06, 2010, 11:53:32 AM

My point is that it's damn near impossible to find a quality, compatible mate for life.  Ruling people out because they have children reduces an already infinitesimally small pool.  If you have the good fortune of finding someone that meets whatever criteria you set as limiters, you've beaten the odds.  Good for you.  I choose to keep as many of my options open as possible.  Being single and in my mid-40's, the women I meet with no children are usually childless for a reason, though I have met a few rare exceptions (like some women I've dated in their 20's.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly? )

As an aside, dating women with grown children is VERY different from dating a woman with a toddler.  Still, I'd consider both if they were someone that didn't make me crazy after a week.  
« Last Edit: January 06, 2010, 11:58:26 AM by Nebu »

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-  Mark Twain
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Reply #85 on: January 06, 2010, 12:10:36 PM

Ironically, a woman wanting a quality, compatible mate for life just hit one of my deal-breakers.
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Reply #86 on: January 06, 2010, 01:50:12 PM

While I agree that dating someone with a grown child is vastly different from dating someone with a wee tot, acting like the kids have nothing whatever to do with the mother (or father) being a good match is completely crazy. YOU don't mind if kids are in the picture. That's cool. But they will be in the picture forever. If it's a young child, you have to be OK with raising it and being The Step Parent. And it's also totally ignoring how the kids feel about it, something the parent won't just say, "Oh well, they'll be out of the house in a few years."

Kids aren't like dogs or something, jeez.

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Reply #87 on: January 06, 2010, 02:06:54 PM

This is the gayest argument of all time you fucks.
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Reply #88 on: January 06, 2010, 02:13:48 PM

How is an argument about breeding gay, exactly?

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Reply #89 on: January 06, 2010, 02:15:18 PM

How is an argument about breeding gay, exactly?

Beat me to it.

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Reply #90 on: January 06, 2010, 02:18:30 PM

Ironically, a woman wanting a quality, compatible mate for life just hit one of my deal-breakers.

You should have taken me up on my offer of an introduction to my cousin, then.  You'd be divorced, bitter and mostly likely still (s)(child)(less).

Sorry, I didn't know what to do with that word.  It was freaking me out.

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Reply #91 on: January 06, 2010, 02:58:39 PM

Kids aren't like dogs or something, jeez.

Between that and being told that I'm on crack, this is a good day. 

You all understand that having a child or not tells you nothing about the compatibility of the woman.  The child is a qualifier of the situation.  What I'm saying here is that tossing a woman aside because of a child would mean you didn't like the situation, not that you didn't like the woman.  As I said above, that's a personal choice.  You're just limiting your pool of women by removing any that have kids.   

I'm also coming to realize that there aren't many people here with adult children.  When your child leaves the house it makes for a profound change in the day-to-day dynamics in a relationship.  It's not that the child has vanished or something equally ridiculous.  It's just my way of saying that the effect of the child on your lifestyle changes pretty noticeably.  Ok, that's if the child is making it through life relatively independently.   

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
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Reply #92 on: January 06, 2010, 03:03:49 PM

I think this whole 'discussion' could have been avoided (or at least would have gone differently) if you didn't use the word superficial. The decision whether or not to have a child or be involved in a situation where you are going to be a parent-like figure is about the single least superficial possible consideration I can think of involved in a relationship.

EDIT: And you simply can't have a relationship with someone who has kids without also having a relationship with their kids and probably quite a lot of the rest of their family. Again, nothing very superficial there.

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Reply #93 on: January 06, 2010, 03:16:37 PM

EDIT: And you simply can't have a relationship with someone who has kids without also having a relationship with their kids and probably quite a lot of the rest of their family. Again, nothing very superficial there.

So why would having a relationship with her kids make you miss out on the opportunity to spend your life with the woman of your dreams?   You're right that "superficial" wasn't a good word choice.  I just can't comprehend someone passing up on a lifetime of happiness with a great partner because she happens to have a child.   The only logical conclusion I can make is that they think that there are so many other quality matches out there that they can afford to let the ones with children pass them by.  I hope that they're correct.  I haven't found it to be the case in my life.  I've known MANY women and I have yet to find one that I want to share my life with.  Were she to come along, I'd be delighted to share her with her children. 
 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
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Reply #94 on: January 06, 2010, 03:20:53 PM

But see that's just it, you can't evaluate those parts of a relationship separately. If the kids are horrible - or even if they're not - then the relationship with the other person is automatically changed. It is another huge variable in the equation.

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Reply #95 on: January 06, 2010, 03:22:52 PM

My point is that it's damn near impossible to find a quality, compatible mate for life.

Wut?  Is this most peoples' experience?  I'm not trolling or anything, but I'm an ugly, irascible son of a bitch and even my experience is completely the opposite of that.

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Reply #96 on: January 06, 2010, 03:24:06 PM

My point is that it's damn near impossible to find a quality, compatible mate for life.

Wut?  Is this most peoples' experience?  I'm not trolling or anything, but I'm an ugly, irascible son of a bitch and even my experience is completely the opposite of that.

IIRC Nebu married a model -- nuff said.   awesome, for real

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Reply #97 on: January 06, 2010, 03:31:02 PM

It would be nice to go out on a successful date with a beautiful woman that leads to something passionate and brief. That's all I really want out of life right now. No kids, no relationships. Just a clean hook-up that leaves us both satisfied and demystifies a section of my life, without having to pay someone to fake the emotions.

I stopped going to strip clubs, especially after seeing the Butters episode this season on South Park. But I still think about it and want to go just for some female companionship, even though I know every single one of them is using their looks and charm to extort my wallet.

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Reply #98 on: January 06, 2010, 03:33:46 PM

Quote from: Nebu
You all understand that having a child or not tells you nothing about the compatibility of the woman.  The child is a qualifier of the situation.  What I'm saying here is that tossing a woman aside because of a child would mean you didn't like the situation, not that you didn't like the woman.  As I said above, that's a personal choice.  You're just limiting your pool of women by removing any that have kids.

This is why I said you're acting like kids are dogs you don't like that much. You simply can't dismiss the child (or children) as a mere condition that will pass. Yes, of course they grow up and you don't have to take care of them all the time, but you have to get through that part first, and not as some impartial observer or anything, either. You'd be expected to also be a parent. That isn't something to be taken lightly, and I have a lot more respect for people who know themselves well enough to say, "No, that isn't for me," because the kid deserves someone who wants them.

I get that you personally wouldn't mind being in the step-parent role, but to act like it has nothing to do with the parent and what your relationship with them would be is a little ... well, weird. Because he or she is pretty unlikely to be OK with you closing your eyes and thinking of England whenever it is time to Be a Parent to their kids.

Of course, this is all also ignoring that it's OK to not have a Lifetime Forever Perfect Mate. That isn't for everyone either. :P

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Reply #99 on: January 06, 2010, 03:44:01 PM

I stopped going to strip clubs, especially after seeing the Butters episode this season on South Park. But I still think about it and want to go just for some female companionship, even though I know every single one of them is using their looks and charm to extort my wallet.

That last bit is simply not the universal truth that people think it is.  One of my best friends (an ex of mine) is a lap dancer, so I have socialised with, hung out with etc plenty of her colleagues (I also helped her quite a bit with writing up her doctoral thesis, which was an application of Foucault's approach to the broader sex industry).  Lots of them are broken, many are incapable of financial responsibility, or are disproportionately impressed with financial security (this thread is not the place to go into why that is, but the psych 101 answer is obvious if you consider another, darker element across depressingly, astonishingly many of their pasts), but surprisingly few of them are the sort of money-centred, calculating sociopaths you describe once you know them.  Of course, so long as you are in a frame where you are "the client" and they are "the dancer" they will follow patterns closer to what you describe.

Lap dancers are also phenomenally easy to get off with, once you spot the pattern.  It's just not very nice of you to do so.  A bit like taking advantage of single mothers.

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Reply #100 on: January 06, 2010, 03:48:28 PM

Yeah I'm broken in that it is difficulty for me to recognize or adjust myself to other people who are broken in different ways. Plus, meeting anyone at a strip club tends to taint any future friendship / relationship you might have. If you met them anywhere else, that'd have been awesome, but instead...

"Then there's the double-barreled shotgun from Doom 2 - no-one within your entire household could be of any doubt that it's been fired because it sounds like God slamming a door on his fingers." - Yahtzee Croshaw
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Reply #101 on: January 06, 2010, 03:57:22 PM

Yeah I'm broken in that it is difficulty for me to recognize or adjust myself to other people who are broken in different ways. Plus, meeting anyone at a strip club tends to taint any future friendship / relationship you might have. If you met them anywhere else, that'd have been awesome, but instead...

Oh yeah: lap dancers are prestige catches, but utterly short-term.  You just need to see their horrendous long-term boyfriends (whose willingness to have their girlfriends grind on other men every night is fuelled by their pleasure in having their 16-hour-a-day playstation habits subsidised) to remember why.

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Reply #102 on: January 06, 2010, 04:16:25 PM

Your dismissal of the child issue, Nebu, is coming from the purely male standpoint.  As if you're the one who gets to make or break that decision. 

My sister won't date, nor wants to even attempt to date, a guy who isn't into her kid and the kid doesn't also dig.  She doesn't want to talk to guys who hold your opinion, and - if I could talk her into trying dating sites - would be one of the first to be glad that little checkmark is there.

Kids aren't a temporary malady, they're blood and the only thing that's almost guaranteed to be around for the rest of your life.  Even your 'perfect mate' is more likely to leave your life before your kid.   Or did you stop talking to your mom & dad because you got married and "got a life of your own"?

Thinking about it a bit more and reading a few more responses.. this probably points out more about you than you realize.  You're removing yourself from a lot of women's pools - something you're chiding everyone else about - because of your lassiez faire attitude towards these women's families.  And coming across as a bit of a dick in the same moment.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2010, 04:21:18 PM by Merusk »

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Reply #103 on: January 06, 2010, 04:16:31 PM

Gotta lot respect for dudes who take on "families", as opposed to just one person. Don't know if I'll ever do it myself though, but you can't really take a stance on it in some theoretical way. You'd have to be in love with a specific person to start thinking about it. And I guess I can't blame single mothers for having a more serious commitment in mind when they date (not to say all mothers do.. some take their time like anyone else).

[edit] By "you" I mean you in general. And me. Not really addressing this to anyone.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2010, 04:23:13 PM by stray »
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Reply #104 on: January 06, 2010, 04:16:38 PM

Yeah I'm broken in that it is difficulty for me to recognize or adjust myself to other people who are broken in different ways. Plus, meeting anyone at a strip club tends to taint any future friendship / relationship you might have. If you met them anywhere else, that'd have been awesome, but instead...

Oh yeah: lap dancers are prestige catches, but utterly short-term.  You just need to see their horrendous long-term boyfriends (whose willingness to have their girlfriends grind on other men every night is fuelled by their pleasure in having their 16-hour-a-day playstation habits subsidised) to remember why.

I played in a D&D group with a couple where the wife was a stripper. Oddest fucking relationship I've ever seen. One time they came over with her "girlfriend" and while he played D&D with us, she and her girlfriend made out on the couch. While everyone else was staring in disbelief, the husband paid no attention to them and was far more interested in getting his character to the next level.

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