Drillers seek Scotch lost in Antarctica in 1909

[Salamok]

WELLINGTON, New Zealand - A beverage company has asked a team to drill through Antarctica's ice for a lost cache of some vintage Scotch whiskey that has been on the rocks since a century ago.

The drillers will be trying to reach two crates of McKinlay and Co. whiskey that were shipped to the Antarctic by British polar explorer Sir Ernest Shackleton as part of his abandoned 1909 expedition.

Whyte & Mackay, the drinks group that now owns McKinlay and Co., has asked for a sample of the 100-year-old scotch for a series of tests that could decide whether to relaunch the now-defunct Scotch.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/33964571/

[Ironwood]

Um.

It'll taste terrible.

[Salamok]

Um.

It'll taste terrible.

From the freeze?  I can't really see much aging going on when it is frozen solid.

[NowhereMan]

If it's actually frozen I'd imagine that the water and alcohol could have separated, basically completely ruining it. Of course that's a totally uneducated guess.

[slog]

My favorite drink is Scotch on the rocks.  I 100% endorse this effort.

[LK]

Greater efforts have been made for less.

[Murgos]

I doubt if it would freeze solid.  It's encased in ice which should keep it pretty insulated and around 32 (f), which I don't think is cold enough to do anything.

[Oban]

Did I read that correctly, they are going to drill in to the cache of scotch to extract a sample?

I am going to take a wild guess here, drill lube and vintage scotch probably do not taste very satisfying.

[Nerf]

Shouldn't ice be self-lubricating or require no lubricant?  They didn't say they wanted to drill through rock or metal, just ice, shouldn't be too terribly difficult.

[Murgos]

I think you typically use high pressure water to drill through ice.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Reading comprehension time.

They aren't drilling to recover the scotch itself, they are drilling to get the scotch, analyze the composition of it and possibly re-instate a now defunct recipe.

[tazelbain]

Now we just need to find Scotch on the moon and we'll be set.

[Nerf]

I think you typically use high pressure water to drill through ice.

Is it really drilling at that point? I think it'd just be a deep cylindrical cut, drilling a term used to define a very specific sort of cutting as far as I know.
It's all a waste of time though, give it a few more years and global warming will melt all the ice and leave the scotch out in the open and ripe for the taking!

[Nebu]

If it's actually frozen I'd imagine that the water and alcohol could have separated, basically completely ruining it. Of course that's a totally uneducated guess.

Water and alcohol are miscible, so this isn't a concern.

I doubt if it would freeze solid.  It's encased in ice which should keep it pretty insulated and around 32 (f), which I don't think is cold enough to do anything.

That was my thought.  It's not going to age a great deal at 0 C.  Makes me wonder if they aren't just using this as an excuse to look for something else that they don't want to comment on. 

[HaemishM]

ALIENS!

[NowhereMan]

I doubt if it would freeze solid.  It's encased in ice which should keep it pretty insulated and around 32 (f), which I don't think is cold enough to do anything.

That was my thought.  It's not going to age a great deal at 0 C.  Makes me wonder if they aren't just using this as an excuse to look for something else that they don't want to comment on. 

If they're going for the recipe then it's believable (I guess). Lots of distilleries didn't bother to actually keep recipes written down anywhere so it's quite likely that they don't actually know how to make this blend anymore and collectors and tasters can go a bit crazy for revived recipes brought out in limited editions. It's pretty much been what's fuelled the more expensive absinthe varieties as they're almost all reverse engineered from old bottles that have been found since most of the distilleries stopped producing it way back and didn't hold on to the recipes.

[Sir T]

It may not freeze due to the impurities in the Scotch, but the water would still expand once the temp dropped below 4 degrees centigrade. I would be interested in knowing whether the bottles could withstand the internal pressure. I.E. the bottles could have shattered in the 100 years they have been in the ice.

[Samwise]

It may not freeze due to the impurities in the Scotch, but the water would still expand once the temp dropped below 4 degrees centigrade. I would be interested in knowing whether the bottles cold withstand the internal pressure. I.e. the bottles could have shattered in the 100 years they have been in the ice.

If it's frozen solid it shouldn't be too much of an issue, right?  Hoist up the whole mess and put the cracked frozen bottles into another container so you can catch the whisky when it thaws.

[Sir T]

Good point.

[Ingmar]

If this is high proof stuff I highly doubt it will have frozen. If it was pure ethanol the freezing point is some ridiculous number like -170 degrees F. It wasn't pure ethanol, of course, but scotch is usually 100+ proof so I would expect that the freezing point is well below what the temperature would be sitting fairly insulated inside a big block of ice.

But I'm not an expert so I could be making a bad assumption in there somewhere.

[dusematic]

If this is high proof stuff I highly doubt it will have frozen. If it was pure ethanol the freezing point is some ridiculous number like -170 degrees F. It wasn't pure ethanol, of course, but scotch is usually 100+ proof so I would expect that the freezing point is well below what the temperature would be sitting fairly insulated inside a big block of ice.

But I'm not an expert so I could be making a bad assumption in there somewhere.

You're not.

[Samwise]

If this is high proof stuff I highly doubt it will have frozen. If it was pure ethanol the freezing point is some ridiculous number like -170 degrees F. It wasn't pure ethanol, of course, but scotch is usually 100+ proof so I would expect that the freezing point is well below what the temperature would be sitting fairly insulated inside a big block of ice.

According to the Internets, 80 proof liquor will freeze around -25 C, which is also the average temperature for the Antarctic coast.  So it is just about cold enough that it might be frozen.  Or not.  Insulation doesn't make any difference as far as the average temperature goes; it'll just protect it from variation, which is probably a good thing from a preservative standpoint.

[WindupAtheist]

Yeah, I was waiting for someone to point out that insulation doesn't magically raise the temerature of things that aren't generating heat.

[Ingmar]

I was assuming that the freezing point would be linear from 0% alcohol to 100% alcohol but it sounds like that isn't true?

[Azaroth]

So it's a publicity stunt.

[Nebu]

I was assuming that the freezing point would be linear from 0% alcohol to 100% alcohol but it sounds like that isn't true?

Water and ethanol form an azeotrope, so it's not quite that easy. 

If they're after the recipe, I'd think that would be possible to obtain from a sample but VERY difficult to duplicate.  They could use HPLC and GC/MS to determine content, but there are SO many variables to consider in the original prep that it would be near impossible to duplicate without the original equipment (assuming it wasn't all made in a sterile environment, which I doubt being that it was from 1909).

[Samwise]

I was assuming that the freezing point would be linear from 0% alcohol to 100% alcohol but it sounds like that isn't true?

Science!

[Ingmar]

As it turns out I don't care enough to figure out the numbers for ethanol as opposed to rubbing alcohol AND do all the math.  

But it's obviously not as simple as I assumed in any case.

[Salamok]

I doubt if it would freeze solid.  It's encased in ice which should keep it pretty insulated and around 32 (f), which I don't think is cold enough to do anything.

That is some kick ass insulation then, I would think that if there isn't any active temperature control going on an insulator isn't going to insulate forever it will eventually become the same temperature as the surrounding environment.

At some point in the last 100 years there is the possibility that this stuff did freeze, according to this table 100proof alcohol looks like it would freeze around -35c.

"A blinding, shrieking blizzard all day, with the temperature ranging from -60 to -70°F." - Shackleton (1909)

[MahrinSkel]

I was assuming that the freezing point would be linear from 0% alcohol to 100% alcohol but it sounds like that isn't true?

Water and ethanol form an azeotrope, so it's not quite that easy. 

If they're after the recipe, I'd think that would be possible to obtain from a sample but VERY difficult to duplicate.  They could use HPLC and GC/MS to determine content, but there are SO many variables to consider in the original prep that it would be near impossible to duplicate without the original equipment (assuming it wasn't all made in a sterile environment, which I doubt being that it was from 1909).

They don't need to get an exact reverse-engineered batch.  They need to get something they can claim is a scientifically reproduced lost recipe that tastes drinkable.  Scotch drinkers are as convinced they are all connoisseurs as wine drinkers, and even more likely to be mistaken.

--Dave

[Fraeg]

sounds like a mix of publicity and an actual desire to get a sample.

We Hired Drillers!! = yeah we hired a contractor to get some stuff out of the ice, for historical preservation issues we can only extract a small sample not just backhoe that shit out, as it is close to the surface.

hmm ok a backhoe wouldn't work in ice but you get the idea.

This made me think of:

Captain Haddock and his sea treasure rum in

[Murgos]

I doubt if it would freeze solid.  It's encased in ice which should keep it pretty insulated and around 32 (f), which I don't think is cold enough to do anything.

That is some kick ass insulation then, I would think that if there isn't any active temperature control going on an insulator isn't going to insulate forever it will eventually become the same temperature as the surrounding environment.

You are right, according to one site the temp 10m below the surface of a glacier in Antarctica is -57 C.

Edit: to be clear though this is only true specifically of polar glaciers, in most other regions they don't drop below -10 C.

Edit2:  From further reading, it's not all of Antarctica that's at those extremely low temps, because, you know, ocean and such.  Some of Antarctica's glaciers are between 0 and -10C, particularly along the coast.  So, yeah, the scotch could still be ok, because you know, it's insulated by the ice from the extreme temps.

[Sheepherder]

hmm ok a backhoe wouldn't work in ice but you get the idea.

Actually, they do.  In fact, the standard front loader / rear hoe is a pretty optimal setup for making holes in ice.  You punch through and root out blocks with the back, then you scoop them and dump them with the front.  It also lets you have a machine on the ice to assist the diver.

That being said, in this case you would want to shave off the ice with an auger of some sort.

[Paelos]

Um.

It'll taste terrible.

He's a dick, but he's also Scottish. (that's probably not at all mutually exclusive, I just usually can't understand them)

So, I'm backing this opinion.

[Salamok]

Edit2:  From further reading, it's not all of Antarctica that's at those extremely low temps, because, you know, ocean and such.  Some of Antarctica's glaciers are between 0 and -10C, particularly along the coast.  So, yeah, the scotch could still be ok, because you know, it's insulated by the ice from the extreme temps.

Given the location (it is on the coast not the plateau) and the length of time it has been there i'd still be willing to bet that within the last 100 years there was a cold snap that lasted long enough to freeze this.  Also, I do not think this stuff is overly deep, but it does sound like it was beneath a cabin or some such:

Al Fastier, who will lead the expedition in January, said restoration workers found the crates of whiskey under the hut's floorboards in 2006. At the time, the crates and bottles were too deeply embedded in ice to be dislodged.

So they are shallow enough to be seen.

edit: best bet is probably this is all fiction to support a marketing campaign for a new whiskey.