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Author Topic: Idiot's Guide to Death Knights  (Read 20074 times)
Morat20
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on: October 04, 2009, 03:41:08 PM

I could use one of these, insofar as I have a Death Knight and I feel I'm just mashing buttons without any real feel for what I'm doing with the stupid thing.

I'm going to have to respec soon anyways, but what I've got is some weird 35 unholy/14 frost sort of setup that seems part "Hey, permanent Ghoul" and part "Ha-ha, you have frost fever and suck and I'm awesome" which is working out for me soloing but I am really just mashing buttons.

Death Grip, Icy Touch, Plague Strike, then spam Blood and Death Strike and throw in a Death Coil at times. Oh, and blow up corpses if I'm surrounded. Half the time I'm in Frost Presence and half the time in Blood, and it seems mostly I'll stay in Blood unless I'm not healing myself enough with Death Strike and the damage heals from Blood presence, in which case I'll move to Frost.

So anyone here have the short "Idiot's Guide to Playing a Death Knight, Solo/PuG 5-man" edition?
Rendakor
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Reply #1 on: October 04, 2009, 03:50:39 PM

First off, respec blood.

Blood presence for DPSing (5 mans), frost for soloing.

Disease, disease, DS, HS HS. Rinse, repeat. Coil when necessary. You'll be able to solo most Group(2) and Group(3) quests, and still do good dps in 5mans.

"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
K9
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Reply #2 on: October 04, 2009, 05:37:41 PM


I love the smell of facepalm in the morning
bhodi
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Posts: 6817

No lie.


Reply #3 on: October 04, 2009, 05:42:18 PM

Here's the crap from the SA thread about DKs... I cut/pasted the specs and yes it's ugly but I'm too lazy to fix formatting.


Hey it's 3.2 and it's the new Death Knight thread what do you know!!
Previous Threads:
Def Knight Megathread 3.1: ft. Run AMZ and Busta Rimes
The Death Knight Megathread IV: I kissed a Ghoul and I liked it
The Death Knight Megathread III: I'll death grip you off this cliffffffffff
The Death Knight Megathread II: Ghostcrawler Is My Copilot
The Death Knight Megathread: Blood for the Blood Rune!

1. Introduction to the class

    * Death Knights are the new class in Wrath of the Lich King that utilize two new resource systems: Runes and Runic Power. In addition they...
          o Have a third almost-resource: Diseases
          o Wear Plate that is statted exactly the same as Warrior/Paladins
          o Use two handed weapons for both tanking and damaging
          o Are able to talent into having a ghoul buddy
          o Are the easiest soloing class in the game. This means you can fairly simply solo old world bosses and the like.
          o Have a lot of sweet lore that I'm going to skim over because I'm a powergaming baby, but I hear there's some pretty cool stuff written about them.

    * How do I get a Death Knight?
      You can create a Death Knight on any realm regardless so long as you have a 55 or greater character somewhere on your account.
    * What do you get when you create a fresh Death Knight?
      You start off as a level 55 character with green gear and 4x12 slot bags. You have 270 First Aid and high enough weapon skills to progress through the starting zone with no problem (Note: you will need to get the weapon skills for 1H/2H maces). The starting zone is designed in such a way that you will earn the talent points in addition to quest reward armor. The quests are quite simple in nature and will take roughly 1.5-2.0 hours to complete depending on traffic. Also you get an epic riding mount as early as level 55 via a quest reward. By the time you leave the starting zone with money gained from quest rewards, and spending on upgrading talents is roughly 30 gold.
    * Should I go to Outlands/Northrend at 58/68?
      Yes.

2. Talent Builds

    * Leveling
      55-80 Unholy Leveling Spec http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=2305000500000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000002302303300202152003150203133151&glyph=092527060504&version=10192

      No idea what to level as? Intimidated by all of the talents? Nothing strike your fancy? Are you a wishy-washy flip-flopper who can't make a decision to save their life? Use this spec then. Faster mount speed, faster run speed, permaghoul, ridiculously fast killing speed, practically no downtime. Welcome to playing a Death Knight. NOTE: Blood and Frost can be used to level just as well. Experiment.
    * Level 80 DPS
          o 1) Blood
            51/0/20 Blood DPS http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=2305020530003303231023101351000000000000000000000000000002301303050030000000000000000000&glyph=100608060504&version=10192
            Use Death Strike to turn UF runes into Death Runes, then spam Heart Strike. You're going to want ArPen and armor debuffs from Warriors+Druids in order to really maximize this build's damage. Vampiric Blood is there as a nice buffer cooldown if things are going south, or during widespread raid damage. This is a rather flexible build - switching points around between Morbidity, Necrosis and Blood Caked Blade as well as filling out Epidemic gives you a lot of tweaking options. Don't be afraid to experiment.
          o 2a) Blood Presence 2H Unholy
            16/0/55 2H Unholy http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight#_CJEhE9lP1PoqE,FQp,10482
            USE THIS IF YOU HAVE MORE THAN ~200 HASTE RATING. A solid 2Hander DPS spec that outshines the others (okay, slightly) in BiS gear. 3.2.2's changes to the Gltph of Scourge Strike means that Reaping and Epidemic are no longer necessary for top DPS, so the rotation for this spec looks something like this: IT PS SS BS BS DC DC. Simple, huh!
          o 2b) Imp Unholy Presence 2H Unholy
            14/0/57 2H Unholy http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight#_CJy4C1tueEEg,FQp,10482
            USE THIS IF YOU HAVE LESS THAN ~200 HASTE RATING. A solid 2Hander DPS spec that outshines the others (okay, slightly) in BiS gear. 3.2.2's changes to the Gltph of Scourge Strike means that Reaping and Epidemic are no longer necessary for top DPS, so the rotation for this spec looks something like this: IT PS SS BS BS DC DC. Simple, huh!
      Dual Wield DPS
      For dual-wield Frost specs, ALWAYS USE TWO SLOW WEAPONS. Dual-wield Unholy, it typically doesn't matter; just use the highest DPS weapons you have. Furthermore, keep in mind that if you're still leveling or you just hit 80 yesterday or something, these specs will generally be lower DPS than a 2handed spec.
          o 1) Frost
            0/53/18 Frost http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=0000000000000000000000000000320053503520030123000330013512302003050030000000000000000000&glyph=171318000000&version=10192
            This spec's rotation focuses on using Obliterate as its main strike. Save KM procs for Rime. Use Frost Strike as the RP dump. USE BOTH DISEASES. Use FC/RI or FC/FC runeforges (FC/RI gives higher theoretical DPS on stationary targets, but FC/FC gives better DPS when you find yourself moving around between mobs or on a moving boss, which is most boss fights). Use the Sigil of Awareness Virulence.
            Rotation: IT PS OB BS BS Dump | OB OB OB Dump
          o 2a) Blood Presence Unholy 
            3/13/55 Unholy http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight#8lcqPOuGx_Qv7,FQpeO3,10433
            USE THIS SPEC IF YOU HAVE MORE THAN ~200 HASTE RATING. This build will still have Unholy Blight and Death Coil as your highest damage attacks, followed by Scourge Strikes. In BiS gear, this spec is highest DPS, equivalent to Blood Presence 2H Unholy. Use the Sigil of Virulence.
            Rotation: IT PS SS BS BB DC DC
          o 2b) Imp Unholy Presence Unholy http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight#8lcqPOuGxs_M7,FQpeO3,10433
            3/13/55 Unholy
            USE THIS SPEC IF YOU HAVE LESS THAN ~200 HASTE RATING. This build will still have Unholy Blight and Death Coil as your highest damage attacks, followed by Scourge Strikes. Use the Sigil of Virulence.
            Rotation: IT PS SS BS BB DC DC
    * Level 80 Tanking
      Tanking while leveling up consists of equiping items with more stam on them (optional) and going into frost presence. AOE a little more than you usually do. Anyone can tank! That includes you! Always be prepared to tank an instance.
          o 1) Blood
            53/8/10 Blood Tank w/ Morbidity http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=2055320500303313201020131350305000000000000000000000000000052300000000000000000000000000&glyph=261012040605&version=10192
            Blood's a great spec for tanking, with high survivability and a lot of cooldowns to pop when shit gets dicey. This particular spec has a bit of increased AoE in the form of Morbidity. The 3 points in Spell Deflection may be switched out with Subversion, Sudden Doom or Rune Tap. Place them wherever you feel you might need them.
          o 2) Frost
            12/54/5 Frost Tanking http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=0055020000000000000000000000325050003520331003002031313510050000000000000000000000000000&glyph=241820060504&version=10192
            In 3.2.2, Frost tanking has received a buff via Unbreakable Armor getting changed to something worthwhile and Frost Presence getting bumped up to -8% damage reduction. Frost will do well for mitigating physical damage whereas Blood excels at straight-up damage soaking. If Blood doesn't appeal to you, give Frost a try. In 3.3, Blizzard will be adding Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle clones for 1h weapons, making DW Frost tanking completely viable. Right now, it can work threat-wise (since Threat of Thassarian now gives double Rune Strikes) but you'll be losing some stamina and gaining... very little additional avoidance in return. If you like it, though, by all means!
          o 3) Unholy
            10/10/51 Unholy Tanking http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=0055000000000000000000000000005050000000000000000000000002352320300200152033000203103150&glyph=250412060504&version=10192
            You'll have workable single target threat and respectable magic mitigation. The downside is that you lose the array of cooldowns you get with Blood. Bone Shield's a nice proactive cooldown, though, and the reduction in magic damage taken can be useful for fights heavy in magic damage. As of 3.2.0, however, the nerfs to Scourge Strike combined with the loss of the old UhB make Unholy not-so-hot for tanking. If you want a great AoE tanking build, check out Frost. For single-target threat, give Blood a try. Unholy is just in a very strange place right now, but we'll see where 3.3 takes us.

3. Stat Weighting from Elitist Jerks

    * Blood DPS
      code:

      Stat          APE
      Attack Power      1
      Weapon DPS      9.89
      Strength      2.89
      Armor Penetration   2.75
      Hit Rating (to cap)   2.51
      Expertise Rating   2.47
      Crit Rating      1.56
      Haste Rating      1.5
      Agility         1.37
      Hit Rating (Spell)   .52
      Armor         .03

    * Frost DPS
      code:

      AP            100
      Strength    261
      Agility    114
      Crit            144
      Haste            126
      Armor Pen    185
      Expertise    347
      Hit            388
      Spell Hit    171
      Weapon DPS    691
      Weapon Speed    36029
      2T8            12000
      4T8            13076
      2T9            26615

      This stat weighting is for DW Frost, which is the de facto Frost DPS spec. "Spell Hit" is any hit rating over 5%. DW autoattack hit penalty is not worth considering.

    * Unholy DPS
      NOTE: THIS ASSUMES 4PC T9. IF YOU DO NOT HAVE 4PC T9, CRIT IS RATED SLIGHTLY LOWER - SAY 2.00.
      code:

      AttackPower            1.00
      Strength            3.05
      BeforeMeleeHitCap<8%    3.05
      HasteRating            2.29
      CritRating            2.10
      ExpertiseRating            1.65
      HitAfterMeleeHitCap    1.40
      ArmorPenetrationRating    1.30
      Agility                    1.05
      WeaponDPS            6.03
      WeaponSpeed            238.1

4. Crazy Coefficents
code:

Ability    Coefficient
Blood Boil   0.04
Blood Plague   0.055
Bloodworms   0.006
Death and Decay   0.0475
Death Coil   0.15
Frost Fever   0.055
Howling Blast   0.1
Summon Gargoyle   0.4
Icy Touch   0.1
Pestilence   0.04
Strangulate   0.06

5. Resource Utilization

    * Runes:
      You have three sets of two runes: Blood - Frost - Unholy. Each of your abilities will cost a certain amount of runes (or Runic Power). Each tree has a talent that will let you turn one or two of these types into another type: Death Runes. Death Runes are a wildcard rune and, as such, can be used for any Rune ability.Runes recharge in 10 seconds untalented, or 9 seconds if you're in Unholy Presence with Improved UP.
    * Runes, if used within two seconds of recharging, will continue their 10 second cooldown. Example: An unholy rune refreshes (t=0), I use death coil (t=0), I use Plague Strike the next GCD (t=1.5), my unholy rune will refresh at t=10. This allows for a lot of leeway in rotations (as well as lag!).
    * Runic power is generated by either using Rune abilities or casting Horn of Winter. Single rune abilities will generate 10 RP, Multi-Rune abilities will generate 15, and HoW will generate 10. Runic power is used by two main offensive abilities (Called the Runic Power Dump): Death Coil (if Unholy/Blood) and Frost Strike (if Frost). Gargoyle, Hungering Cold, Dancing Rune Weapon, and Death Pact also use Runic Power, though these abilities aren't used as frequently.

6. Rotations
All of the rotations can be used for both tanking and DPS, except in the former case you need to pay attention to your defensive cooldowns (and use them where appropriate).

    * Crazy Jargon
      PS: Plague Strike
      IT: Icy Touch
      BS: Blood Strike
      SS: Scourge Strike
      BB: Blood Boil
      OB: Obliterate
      RP: Runic Power Dump
      DC: Death Coil
      HS: Heart Strike
      FS: Frost Strike
      DrW: Dancing Rune Weapon
      DnD: Death and Decay
      Pest: Pestilence
    * Blood
          o Single Target
            IT-PS-HS-HS-DS - RP
            IT-PS-HS-HS-HS-HS - RP
            DS-IT-PS-HS-HS - RP
            HS-HS-HS-HS-DS - RP
          o AOE
            DnD-IT-PS-Pest - RP
            DS-BB-DnD - RP

    * Frost
          o Single Target
            IT-PS-BS-BS-OB - RP Dump
            OB-OB-OB - RP Dump
          o AOE
            HB-PS-Pest-BB-IT - RP Dump
            HB-BB-BB-OB - RP Dump

    * Unholy
          o Single Target
            IT-PS-SS-BS-BS-DC-(HOW)-DC
            IT-PS-SS-BS-BS-DC-DC
          o AOE
            IT-PS-Pest-DnD-RP Dump (for trash/generic AoE)
            IT-PS-SS-Pest-BB-RP Dump (for "cleave" AoE such as Anub'arak)

6. Macros

    *


      Rune strike macro (it's off the GCD and reactive so this makes it easy) - Also you can substitute Plague Strike for whatever else you use.

      #showtooltip Plague Strike
      /script UIErrorsFrame:UnregisterEvent("UI_ERROR_MESSAGE")
      /cast Rune Strike
      /script UIErrorsFrame:RegisterEvent("UI_ERROR_MESSAGE")
      /cast Plague Strike

      Thanks Moolissa!
    *

      Heal your pet

      /cast [target=pet] Death Coil
    *

      /use 13 will activate your upper trinket if placed in a macro
      /use 14 will activate your lower trinket if placed in a macro
      /cast bloodfury(Racial) will use the orc racial every time it is cooled if placed in a macro
    *

      Hit it to DC your target, hold down alt and hit it to heal your pet
      #showtooltip
      /cast [nomodifier] Death Coil;[modifier:alt,target=pet] Death Coil

7. Runeforging
Runeforging is a unique skill exclusive to Death Knights that gives a weapon enchant at the cost of swapping them out at Ebon Hold.

Runeforge enchantments are outlined as follows:
Cinderglacier: provides a chance to increase damage of your next 2 attacks that deal frost or shadow damage by 20%
Fallen Crusader: 15% strength boost (total not base!) for 15 seconds and heals you for 3% health. Procs very often.
Lichbane: Increase damage against undead by 4% or adds 2% fire damage to everything else.
Razorice: Causes 2% of your weapon damage in frost damage and can increase frost vulnerability on the target.
Spellbreaking: (1 hander): deflects 2% of all spell damage and reduce the effect of silence effects by 50%
Spellshattering: deflects 4% of all spell damage and reduces silences by 50%
Swordbreaking: (1 hander) Increase parry chance by 2% and reduces disarm effects by 50%
Swordshattering: Increase parry chance by 4% and reduce disarm effects by 50%
Stoneskin Gargoyle: Increases Defense (note: not rating) by 25 and Stamina by 2%

Generally, you'll only be using Fallen Crusader/Stoneskin Gargoyle depending on if you're dpsing/tanking. Swordshattering is never superior to Stoneskin Gargoyle, though, due to SSG's +2% stamina and roughly equal avoidance (about 3% total avoidance). So don't use it unless for some reason you are insane and want to Frost DW tank, in which case use 2xSwordbreaking you wild and crazy guy.

8. Trade Skills
If you're looking for the best option stat-wise it's Jewelcrafting/Blacksmithing. If you're primarily a tank, Jewelcrafting/Mining will be slightly superior. Regardless of what else you do, I suggest becoming a Jewelcrafter -- The Dragon's Eye gems are ridiculously superior to normal gems though as of 3.2 they are no longer prismatic, meaning that you will have to actually choose which gems to use! Here's some suggestions:

    * TANK META: Austere Earthsiege
    * DPS META: Chaotic Skyflare
    * DPS RED: Bold Scarlet (EPIC: Cardinal) Ruby
    * DPS BLUE: Sovereign Twilight Opal (EPIC: Dreadstone)! Use two of these to activate your meta.
    * TANK BLUE: Solid Sky Sapphire (EPIC: Majestic Zircon)
    * TANK RED: Precise Scarlet(EPIC: Cardinal) Ruby / Guardian's Twilight Opal (EPIC: Dreadstone)


9. Enchants
Generally, for DPS you will want to enchant for whatever it is you need the most of.

    * If you need more hit, enchant your gloves with Precision. If you don't, enchant them with Crusher.
    * If your talent spec takes Necrosis and BCB, Haste > Agility on your cloak. Otherwise, Agility > Haste.
    * If you aren't Unholy spec with Imp. Unholy Presence, put Tuskarr's Vitality or Cat's Swiftness on your boots. That extra run speed can save your life.
    * Never put anything other than a Runeforge on your weapons. They are better than any enchant.
    * Get your shoulder enchants from the Sons of Hodir (First tier at Honored, best enchants at Exalted). Well-geared tanks should consider the Greater Inscription of the Gladiator (bought for 10000 Honor Points) as it provides +30 Stamina and a bit of general damage reduction in the form of Resilience.
    * For DPS, your head enchant is from the Knights of the Ebon Blade (Revered). For tanks, your head enchant is from the Argent Dawn (Revered).
    * Tanks will want to put +22 Defense on their breastplates. DPS will want to put +10 to all stats.
    * Don't use the Expertise enchants, they're really really terrible.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2009, 05:45:44 PM by bhodi »
Merusk
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Reply #4 on: October 04, 2009, 06:25:16 PM

Here's the basics.

1)  Get a mod to monitor your diseases, your Runic Power and your runes in one spot.  I recommend Rune Watch but there's others. Find one you like looking at and stick it right below your character onscreen.

2) Keep your diseases up.  These do a lot more damage over time than bad DKs realize.  How so? Well, even though they'll show up below your other abilities on actual damage dealt, each one on a mob gives a bonus to your strikes and Blood Boil.  That bonus adds up.

3) Dump that Rune Power.  Sitting on a full bar is sitting on fail. Throw out a Gargoyle/ Dancing Rune Weapon or Deathcoil in that order.

4) If you're Tanking or Soloing macro Rune Strike to everything.  It's a waste of time to try and find it every time it lights up when there's a much easier way of doing it.

Other than that, spec how you want.  Lots of folks love Blood but I've been partial to Unholy for a while and use blood for tanking.  Blood's got a lot more physical damage to it so it needs a good deal of Armor Pen, while Unholy is Phys/ Shadow and tends to be more forgiving of lower gear stats and Frost is a lot of magic damage.   I've always avoided Frost because it's go so many "Hit this now!" "Ok, now hit this!"  mechanics and I hate those.  Frost has a lot of adherents, though, so some must love it.



The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Fordel
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Reply #5 on: October 04, 2009, 06:56:05 PM

For leveling, get the Glyph of DeathGrip. http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43541



and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Hawkbit
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Reply #6 on: October 04, 2009, 08:22:16 PM

I leveled as unholy dps until mid-70s.  For soloing, once I hit 540 defense and was tanking heroics and starting Naxx, I found that my frost 2hd build killed just as fast in frost presence as I did in blood presence as unholy spec.  Ditto on macroing RS to your 4 main shots.  As frost tank, I open with Icy Touch -> Plague Strike -> 2x Blood Strike -> Oblit -> Frost Strike -> Oblit then start over.  If both diseases are up and I'm low on health while soloing, two Blood strikes pumps me up 6k health in seconds.  Done properly, I'm pretty damn hard to kill solo pve. 

Sadly, I've found that players have little faith in DK tanks right now and I've kinda just dumped the toon and started leveling a paladin tank.  I figure that way I'll have at least a 2 in 4 shot of having a strong tank depending on how things fall in the next xpac. 
Shrike
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Reply #7 on: October 04, 2009, 09:25:59 PM

I have a DK, though she's more of a PvP build than anything else. However, she wails in day-to-day play. She can tank 5 mans. She can dps pretty well. She kills horde like an undead weed-whacker. She's unholy/frost.

The big thing with DKs is monitoring rune cooldowns and your diseases. You need a mod. I use Acherus. This thing rocks. It's very configurable and has pretty much everything you need to stay on top of your assorted need-to-knows.

Next thing is UI related. Mine is kind of a mess (based on my shaman one), but you need to have your rune burning attacks at hand, and your rune power dumps also at hand. Everything else is secondary. If you're unholy, you'll need some macros to keep control of your pet. Makes life a lot easier if he actually listens to you.

The rest is experience playing the character. You need to get a feel for what runes are up or about to come up. What to use now, what to keep in reserve--just in case. Also, it's best to keep a little RP on hand, but don't sit on 100%. Burn it down to about 30% then save it for emergencies/opportunities (more of a PvP thing). All of the DK trees have a set of runes they convert into death runes. It's key to get these turning over as quickly as possible. Once they're death runes, they can be used as any sort of rune. Once they're ready, you can move from the lesser strikes like plague and blood, and unload the real damage from obliterate and scourge. Also, you'll have better access to death strike, which is the heal which annoys so many in PvP. That's from an unholy perspective, I know blood DKs are somewhat different in their rune usage.
Sheepherder
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Reply #8 on: October 04, 2009, 10:42:17 PM

There's nothing better on a blood DK than being able to line up six heart strikes in a row.
Simond
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Reply #9 on: October 05, 2009, 06:18:16 AM

That's p. hilarious on certain race/class/weapon combos, because it looks like they should fall down dizzy afterwards.  awesome, for real

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Morat20
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Reply #10 on: October 05, 2009, 10:40:36 AM

Thanks. That's all really helpful and I think I'll be able to sort out what I'm doing a bit better now.
Zetor
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Reply #11 on: October 05, 2009, 11:57:18 AM

I third the recommendation to level as unholy spec. It does respectable damage and has very good AOE; however, the two single most important talents for leveling are both in unholy:
- On a Pale Horse [20% mounted speed bonus]
- Improved Unholy Presence [15% speed bonus active in every presence; since unholy presence is kind of eh for soloing compared to blood for normal mobs and frost for elites, this is pretty nice]

The reason being, you'll spend most of your leveling time going from A to B... reducing that time will help a lot more than doing 4% more dps, imo.

apocrypha
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Reply #12 on: October 05, 2009, 12:01:45 PM

Can we do the same for prot pallies?

I've got a holy paladin who has just been a healbot for 80 levels, dual-boxing. I know where the Flash of Light button is. Really, really well. But not much else  why so serious?

I'd like to dual-spec him Prot and learn to tank, because I've never played a tank of any kind before. Everyone loves a badly geared tank who knows nothing about his class  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?


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Reply #13 on: October 05, 2009, 12:05:44 PM

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/index.php?f=4&t=21932&rb_v=viewtopic


-edit- this specifically is the Prot Paladin specific bit : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZyOoMKtREI

Everything else is mostly generic tanking knowledge.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2009, 12:07:48 PM by Fordel »

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Reply #14 on: October 05, 2009, 12:09:25 PM

Honestly mashing buttons with a DK works pretty well.  Ohhhhh, I see.

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Reply #15 on: October 05, 2009, 12:13:39 PM

As long as you keep diseases up and have a DeathRune talent, you can mostly wing it, yes.  Ohhhhh, I see.

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Reply #16 on: October 05, 2009, 12:44:12 PM

This is me.

I still have not figured out a way to spike damage while pvping on my DK.   1vs1 I loose almost every fight, it actually is kind of embarassing swamp poop

I probably simply don't understand the neccesary synergy of my abilities.




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Reply #17 on: October 05, 2009, 12:53:04 PM

Try equipping a weapon.  awesome, for real

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Reply #18 on: October 05, 2009, 01:30:21 PM

As has been said, the single biggest thing with DKs is keeping your diseases up. 

On the topic of DK spike damage, I just don't see it anymore outside of frost DKs.  Frost Strike still seems to spike obscenely.  But SS, Ob and HS seem mired in the mid 7-9000s.  And to get there, you need the ramp up of both diseases and frequently have to wait for runes to refresh.  After arena'ing a bit, it seems that DKs are more annoyances/pressure than real threats.  Strangulate, Mind Freeze and Chains of Ice are really strong, but they only pressure.  Additionally, diseases are fairly easy to remove negating the disease reliant specs.
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Reply #19 on: October 05, 2009, 01:51:32 PM

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/index.php?f=4&t=21932&rb_v=viewtopic


-edit- this specifically is the Prot Paladin specific bit : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZyOoMKtREI

Everything else is mostly generic tanking knowledge.

Awesome. Now that's a UI I can really work with  awesome, for real

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Reply #20 on: October 05, 2009, 03:09:04 PM

Try equipping a weapon.  awesome, for real
Bah, stupid world events.

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Reply #21 on: October 05, 2009, 03:38:45 PM

This is me.

I still have not figured out a way to spike damage while pvping on my DK.   1vs1 I loose almost every fight, it actually is kind of embarassing swamp poop

I probably simply don't understand the neccesary synergy of my abilities.


Go into unholy stance.

Put diseases up, build up a full suit of DeathRunes. Wait for those runes to refresh.

Pop gargoyle.

Scourge Strike x3 while ghoul stuns. Finish with DCoil.


Grats, you've probably killed anything that isn't Tank specced or a healer.



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Reply #22 on: October 05, 2009, 04:11:19 PM

The rest is experience playing the character. You need to get a feel for what runes are up or about to come up. What to use now, what to keep in reserve--just in case. Also, it's best to keep a little RP on hand, but don't sit on 100%. Burn it down to about 30% then save it for emergencies/opportunities (more of a PvP thing). All of the DK trees have a set of runes they convert into death runes. It's key to get these turning over as quickly as possible. Once they're death runes, they can be used as any sort of rune. Once they're ready, you can move from the lesser strikes like plague and blood, and unload the real damage from obliterate and scourge. Also, you'll have better access to death strike, which is the heal which annoys so many in PvP. That's from an unholy perspective, I know blood DKs are somewhat different in their rune usage.

Death Runes are worthless on Unholy spec these days.  Death Rune'd Scourge Strike is a DPS/ Damage loss as it does less damage than 2x Blood strike.

 Scourge and Blood both do 40% weapon damage. However,  Blood is +305 damage and 12.5% per disease while Scourge is +317.5 damage and 10% per disease.  Even with the +20% talent (Outbreak) it only does 381 damage for the cost of 2 runes.    Scourge's only saving grace is it's magical damage so if you have low Armor Penetration or are working on a mob that isn't getting sundered you might do more damage.

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Reply #23 on: October 05, 2009, 04:17:49 PM

I have an 80 DK and he is basically relegated to being an alt to my 80 Undead Priest. Far too much DPS and tank classes out there yet finding a good healer is damn tough. I went the route of, 'fuck it, I'll heal' and went on from there. When I was playing him he was almost full Blood and farmed like a mofo.

As a side note I hate DKs in BGs on the lower then 80 alts, man they hurt bad... unless they are Blood and on my team so I dont have to heal them too much. Couple renew's and they are energizer bunnies, much like Pallies.


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Reply #24 on: October 05, 2009, 10:01:42 PM

Scourge strike is best against high armored targets...like the second most common PvP spec you'll be seeing: ret pallies. Addditionally, as unholy, my real killer is death coil. SS is nice more from the aspect of it can be glyphed to apply diseases, not so much on wtfpwn damage output.

Also, it's more than just SS. Death runes give you instant access to strangulate and additional CoI opportunities. The classes that give me the most grief in PvP as a DK are casters. Control is vital there, more than a bit more damage on cloth. If I can avoid getting chain nuked and can close, I"m going to kill their silk panty wearing asses regardless of what strikes I'm using. I have to get in range first, though, and in reasonably decent shape.
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Reply #25 on: October 06, 2009, 04:12:35 AM

I can see the point about Death Runes and access to other abilties, since Rune Tap is on a 1 min CD and therefore not always avail, but Glyph of Scourge Strike doesn't apply diseases anymore.  It extends their duration by 3s, stacking to 9s now, since Blizz didn't like DKs spamming SS vs actually hitting PS and IT.

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Reply #26 on: October 06, 2009, 06:36:20 AM

You're both just kind of talking past each other.  While reaping has PVP benefits, it's been taken out of the "optimal EJ approved" unholy PVE builds. I'm finding the new rotation somewhat boring and am considering going another PVE spec or just full time being in a pvp spec (have not dual specced my DK). I wonder if unholy will be dead again in end game PVE with changing the icy touch glyph in 3.3.

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Reply #27 on: October 06, 2009, 11:35:49 AM

Guess I'll have to look at my DK again; it's been a few weeks since I"ve played her. Most of my PvP has been on my shaman lately.

SS applying diseases was nice, but really there was a downside to it. PS hits way hard and I was never entirely comfortable leaving it out of rotations, but time considerations demanded just that frequently. My DK build is entirely a PvP centric one and PvE was never much of an issue for me with this character. Her PvP build was adequate in my day to day play and she was never meant to go on raids.
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Reply #28 on: October 06, 2009, 11:51:39 AM

My newbie DK is 62. Starting with nice blues + cheap flying mount at 60 + buffed Outland XP = INFINITE WIN.

I'm not wearing Outland clown gear though. I'm enchanting my DK blues and toughing it out until Northrend.

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Reply #29 on: October 06, 2009, 03:50:55 PM

That's pretty much what I did, although I did upgrade weapons as I could. But I refused to wear the Outland clownsuit again.

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Reply #30 on: October 06, 2009, 04:00:02 PM

My newbie DK is 62. Starting with nice blues + cheap flying mount at 60 + buffed Outland XP = INFINITE WIN.

I'm not wearing Outland clown gear though. I'm enchanting my DK blues and toughing it out until Northrend.

You have an 80 and have been pving.  I assume you've got a lot of Wintergrasp Shards and if you've been doing your argent dailies you've got a ton of crusader's marks you aren't using for anything.  Buy all the heirloom items you can and never worry about gear again.
You're both just kind of talking past each other.  While reaping has PVP benefits, it's been taken out of the "optimal EJ approved" unholy PVE builds. I'm finding the new rotation somewhat boring and am considering going another PVE spec or just full time being in a pvp spec (have not dual specced my DK). I wonder if unholy will be dead again in end game PVE with changing the icy touch glyph in 3.3.

Unholy's been 'dead' for a while now if you're just looking to max dps. The only reason I stay UH is because we lack consistent raiding warlocks and Ebon Plaguebringer is  Heart for boosting overall raid dps.  Blood has been doing more overall single target for a patch or two and I'd spec it if I could get someone else consistently applying +13% spell damage.   
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 04:06:28 PM by Merusk »

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Reply #31 on: October 06, 2009, 04:01:16 PM

Heirlooms don't cover enough slots to avoid clownsuit.

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Reply #32 on: October 06, 2009, 04:05:54 PM

Heirlooms don't cover enough slots to avoid clownsuit.

For cloth casters they do, since you get a robe. Turn your hat display off and the worst you might get is some visible ugly gloves. For plate though you still have to suffer through ugly pants and boots.

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Reply #33 on: October 06, 2009, 04:08:23 PM

There's also a greater quantity of attractive pants models than there are bp models in BC, imo.  Helms chests and shoulders were the things that really made you look like a jackass and heirloom + visibility covers all of that.

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Reply #34 on: October 06, 2009, 04:09:39 PM

The neon green with purple spot leopard print pants disagree.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
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