Ideal (most of a) Group Composition?

[Azazel]

So friends are interested in trying this out, which would make 4 of us instead of just my wife and myself. The biggest long-term "mistake" we made in WoW was playing characters that we wanted to without any thought to group composition in the end - so we're looking for a bit of a balanced-party experience this time around.

I know groups have 6 people, and since LotRO appears to have CC as a "proper" role (like EQ1/unlike WoW), I guess we're looking at Tank/Healer/CC/DPS.

What's the ideal 4-some to cover these bases, while allowing others/PUGs to join in as needed/available? - We're not going to be min-maxing, but we want to have some good class choices since we'll likely be trying a lot of group content with just the 4 of us...

[Yegolev]

Well, the easy choice is to pick the four classes best at those things.
Tank = Guardian
Healer = Minstrel
CC = Loremaster
DPS = Hunter or RK

I am of the idea that if my wife were to set up her Hunter "properly" (I disagree with her traiting choices, but whatever) she could probably outdamage my RK, but as it is once I get more than three battle attunement I start to outdamage her; once I get nine, forget it.  Of course, RK is a bit wacky and I'm set for damage and high crit%, so I'd still say Hunter for DPS.

You might be able to tank with other things but, like Hunter vs RK, the Guardian is the pure version.

[Brogarn]

Here's my preference:

Warden or Guardian
Minstrel or Rune Keeper (although I prefer the mini)
Burglar or Loremaster (Both work just as well as the other, just differently)
Captain

That's tank, heal, debuff/cc and the Captain as buffer, secondary healer, secondary rezzer, and secondary tank.

[Azazel]

I'm finding that none of the LotRO classes actually appeal to me. :(

Probably part lore, and probably I'm just used to the flexibility of WoW classes. These seem much more like EQ1 classes. Would that be an accurate assessment?

[Mrbloodworth]

I'm finding that none of the LotRO classes actually appeal to me. :(

Probably part lore, and probably I'm just used to the flexibility of WoW classes. These seem much more like EQ1 classes. Would that be an accurate assessment?

Not in my book, all the classes here are more flexible than any other MMO I have played. It may not be that evident in lower levels i guess. But for instance, one may see the hunter as a single target DPS only, but they also have a good deal of CC. Wow classes are rather cut and dry, and group makeup is strict, LOTRO group makeup is extremely overlapping.

[Brogarn]

These seem much more like EQ1 classes. Would that be an accurate assessment?

Not at all. I think the only non-hybrid class in the game is the Guardian. Every other class is a hybrid of multiple classes with the Captain and Loremaster being the biggest hybrids of all combining about 3 or 4 each.

I think you have to dig into it a bit more to see how flexible the classes really are.

[Ard]

Even the Guardian is a hybrid when you consider overpower stance.  They aren't strictly locked into tanking if there's more than one around.  They're subpar dps, but really, everyone is if they aren't an RK or Hunter.

[rattran]

Yeah, the best and most effective group I've played with was Guardian, Burglar, and Hunter. Counting on conjunctions for healing works surprisingly well even against bosses. The hunter kept dying, but he seems to like that.

I'd think Guard/Minstrel and any 2 other classes would cover about anything.

[Mrbloodworth]

The hunter kept dying, but he seems to like that.

HAY! 

[Brogarn]

MBW... is there a game you're not playing? I keep seeing you everywhere I go! I think I'll be sad if there's ever an online game I'm playing that you don't show up in.

Reasons for quitting:
No Mrbloodworth

[Mrbloodworth]

MBW... is there a game you're not playing? I keep seeing you everywhere I go! I think I'll be sad if there's ever an online game I'm playing that you don't show up in.

Reasons for quitting:
No Mrbloodworth

Aion. I think.  

If you are on Brandywine, I was your leader. Didn't get the memo?

[Yegolev]

These classes are multifunction like crazy HOWEVER you will need to put some levels in.  Say lv20 before you start seeing some alternate tactics fleshed out.  Well, I'm not sure what a Hunter can do except kill and be killed.   Ah, actually Hunters are the travel-masters: they have all the teleports.  Also that fellowship runspeed buff.  Also tracking, I miss that one a lot now that I'm playing my RK.

My Guardian, pretty early on I gave her a 2-handed sword, put on Overpower and had lots of fun versus lower-con enemies... especially with the arcing attacks that hit multiples.  Even better, she's level 23 and still has never died.  With a shield on and a defensive stance, she can (slowly) take on three even-con orcs outside Trestlebridge, plus she has a tiny self-heal that triggers on a block.  Lack of a ranged attack is the only sore spot, but it's a minor gripe.

My wife loves her Warden: tanky plus a ranged attack plus a self-only runspeed buff.  I don't know a lot about how it plays but she likes it.

Loremaster = swiss army knife

The runekeeper can both attack and heal, and do both rather well, but not at the same time.  Sometimes a fight starts to go bad and my wife yells "throw out a healing rock" and I always yell back "I can't do that right now".  Depending on the fight/mood, I will let her hunter attack while I heal, or I will attack with her.  In either case, our bane is multiple enemies; the RK has practically no AoE, even the Hunter has a better AoE with Rain of Arrows because you can actually kill things with it.

You asked about an ideal group and we answered, but really I think you will be fine if everyone just picks whatever they like.

[Mrbloodworth]

These classes are multifunction like crazy HOWEVER you will need to put some levels in.  Say lv20 before you start seeing some alternate tactics fleshed out.  Well, I'm not sure what a Hunter can do except kill and be killed.  Ah, actually Hunters are the travel-masters: they have all the teleports.  Also that fellowship runspeed buff.  Also tracking, I miss that one a lot now that I'm playing my RK.

Traps, Strength stance slows, lures, aggro control skills, as well as rain of arrows can become a root, and a poison heal. Off the top of my head.

Bestist ever? No. Useful utility? yes.

[Yegolev]

Forty levels of RK and I forget all my 40 levels of hunter tricks!  Although I never went in for the traps, myself.

[Mrbloodworth]

Forty levels of RK and I forget all my 40 levels of hunter tricks!  Although I never went in for the traps, myself.

I love'em, then again, I die a good deal, mostly because I'm am having fun trying to figure out different combinations of stuff. I have been known to solo a group of 4 mobs, 3, stuck in traps  Also, you have the love the set trap in combat trait.

[HaemishM]

I would be proper insane without all the Hunter ports.

What I've found from playing the Hunter to 41, the Burglar to 17 and dabbling with minstrel is all the classes seem to have some form of CC. I've had some groups with no healers, just hunters pingponging aggro back and forth from massive DPS. The classes in LotRO are actually extremely versatile - very unlike holy trinity style classes from other games.

[Mrbloodworth]

See, HaemishM approved, and not one word said in anger.

[tazelbain]

It's his kinder, gentler avatard mellowing him out.

[sigil]

Wardens have great flexibility as well as a nice bit of burst DPS with their  Javelins which can be plain sick from behind with wages of fear. but Wardens can lay down layers of DoTs (some with equal heals) and can keep a steady self heal going to provide survivability and at higher levels have group fear and a modest group heal/threat transfer to go with interrupts and their ability to remove some of the nastier enemy buffs and debuffs.

The only problem is keeping all the gambit combinations in your head, because one false step that's not picked up can lead to you having not much of anything and then you've got to clear on or all of them out and finish up which can be a pain when in the middle of a battle.

[Azazel]

These classes are multifunction like crazy HOWEVER you will need to put some levels in.  Say lv20 before you start seeing some alternate tactics fleshed out.  Well, I'm not sure what a Hunter can do except kill and be killed.   Ah, actually Hunters are the travel-masters: they have all the teleports.  Also that fellowship runspeed buff.  Also tracking, I miss that one a lot now that I'm playing my RK.

You asked about an ideal group and we answered, but really I think you will be fine if everyone just picks whatever they like.

Yep, thanks for that. It just looked a bit restrictive. For example the WoW Priest isn't much like the EQ1 Cleric in that Priests have nukes and dots etc that aren't a joke. I wouldn't mind playing a healer in that kind (WoW Priest/EQ1 Druid) of vein.
Do the Minstrel's "songs" just work like normal spells/abilities? Or is there some other twist to them? 

How important is a dedicated CCer/how important is CC? (The Loremaster looks a bit crap/unappealing - I never had the urge to play an enchanter in EQ.)

Oh - do the hunter's teleports work for the whole group or are they self-only?

[Cheddar]

Paging MrBloodworth, line 2!

[Ard]

Do the Minstrel's "songs" just work like normal spells/abilities? Or is there some other twist to them? 

Here, to put this in perspective, currently, far as I understand it, in their dps stance, and properly traited, minstrels are the third highest dps in game, and the highest burst aoe in the game period.  So take that for what you will.  They do need to be scaled back a bit, and champions should be above them for sure.  But like Runekeepers, when they're dpsing, they arne't healing, although they aren't as restricted as Runekeepers are as far as that goes.

[Rishathra]

Do the Minstrel's "songs" just work like normal spells/abilities? Or is there some other twist to them? 

How important is a dedicated CCer/how important is CC? (The Loremaster looks a bit crap/unappealing - I never had the urge to play an enchanter in EQ.)

Oh - do the hunter's teleports work for the whole group or are they self-only?

Minstrel songs do work like regular abilities.  It's a flavor thing mostly, but you are essentially still "healing damage."  It's just called "restoring morale."  They have an ability called War Speech, which basically switches them over to a dps role, for when you have multiple healers or need to burn something down.  There is nothing radically different about them compared to most healer types in MMOs, but there is enough to make them a lot more fun to play, and the flavor is entertaining.  I especially like how your attacks actually match up with whatever instrument you have equipped.

CC is important, but you aren't totally screwed if you don't have a dedicated CC'er, because as mentioned previously almost every class has at least one or two CC options.  However, the dedicated CC of a loremaster is really useful and powerful.  Depending on your play style, yeah, you might not really enjoy them, but their utility is unquestionable.  Burglars also have solid CC options.

Hunter teleports work for groups.

[Azazel]

Do the Minstrel's "songs" just work like normal spells/abilities? Or is there some other twist to them? 

How important is a dedicated CCer/how important is CC? (The Loremaster looks a bit crap/unappealing - I never had the urge to play an enchanter in EQ.)

Oh - do the hunter's teleports work for the whole group or are they self-only?

Minstrel songs do work like regular abilities.  
Hunter teleports work for groups.

Thanks - my previous experiences with this kind of thing is the EQ Bard.

[Cheddar]

Songs also build on each other - similiar to EQ.

[Zetor]

When we played through all group content from level 1 to 50-ish, our guild team was very unorthodox and hardly optimal:
Guardian [tank]
Minstrel #1 [healing]
Minstrel #2 [debuffing and damage, sometimes offtanking, rarely healing]
Burglar [debuff, cc]
Loremaster [debuff, cc]
Hunter [damage]

We found that we were really overboard on the CC and low on damage. Subbing in a captain for a minstrel and a RK for the burglar would've helped a lot, but those were our characters, and we didn't want to level up from scratch all over again dammit! :p

Loremaster is pretty much the swiss army knife of the game, they are not just a CC bot, they can also debuff, do decent damage, throw clutch heals, cleanse debuffs, and even act as a mana battery for the healer (and unlike EQ necros, that's not ALL they are good for, heheh).
Hunters, RKs and champions are all very good damage; the RK can heal if needed (though they can't do damage and heal at the same time), the champion can offtank, and the hunter can kite.
Guardians and wardens are both good tanks, wardens are more single-target focused and use a combo point system [in wow terms], while guardians are multi-target tanks and use a stance system [ditto]. Champions might be able to tank too, but our alt group with a champion tank had some survivability issues (then again, we were lowbies).
Captains can also do some offtanking, they are kind of like a pre-BC WOW paladin with a lot of utility, a lot of buffs, comparatively low damage output, and being able to take a few hits.

Edit: for 4 people I'd go with Yegolev's recommendation. Maybe switch out the guardian for a warden [more damage].

Not in my book, all the classes here are more flexible than any other MMO I have played. It may not be that evident in lower levels i guess. But for instance, one may see the hunter as a single target DPS only, but they also have a good deal of CC. Wow classes are rather cut and dry, and group makeup is strict, LOTRO group makeup is extremely overlapping.

As much as I <3 my loremaster [and didn't see any hybrid in wow with a similar flexibility], I gotta disagree with this - I think wow classes are more flexible than you imply. WOW hunters are just as good at kiting/cc/trapping as the lotro counterpart, DKs and feral druids can switch from tanking to powerful dps at the drop of a hat (feral druids can also heal and cc in a pinch), priests can have 'warspeech' [shadowform] and be a capable damage class while still having good healing power, etc etc... unless you do 'serious raiding', but ath that point all classes in all games are pigeonholed anyway.

[Azazel]

Another question - how does the refer-a-friend thing work. Since there's 4 of us, it clearly works out best for us to get 3 referrals out of starting up. I assume that only a boxed account can give referrals out, and not a trial account?

If I activate my box (not a trial), will I then be able to refer the others before I've paid for a month's sub?

Are the buddy keys with 14-day trials found in the all-in-one moria boxes tied to the account giving them out (ie do you get referral credit for them?)


One friend is interested in playing a Champion, one a Loremaster, which I guess makes me a Minstrel for teh heals. Which is hopefully not boring to play. I did enjoy my flirtation with the WoW priest, but that was filled with Dots and nukes as well as heals. Our forth (my wife) would then be a Hunter for the ports and SoW. She also likes playing ranged DPS, which is handy.

That I guess gives us the 4 holy trinity classes anyway, hopefully enough to be able to do some full-group content without other people, and also flexible enough to slot in other PUG people and so forth.

My duo-with-wife character would probably be Runekeeper.



Oh - and does Race make any difference? All the info I can find on it just seems to go on about the lore of the different races, and I've seen the racial restrictions per class, but not what the races mean. My wife wants to be either an Elf or a Hobbit but can't decide which.

[Cheddar]

One friend is interested in playing a Champion, one a Loremaster, which I guess makes me a Minstrel for teh heals. Which is hopefully not boring to play. I did enjoy my flirtation with the WoW priest, but that was filled with Dots and nukes as well as heals. Our forth (my wife) would then be a Hunter for the ports and SoW. She also likes playing ranged DPS, which is handy.

That I guess gives us the 4 holy trinity classes anyway, hopefully enough to be able to do some full-group content without other people, and also flexible enough to slot in other PUG people and so forth.

My duo-with-wife character would probably be Runekeeper.

Oh - and does Race make any difference? All the info I can find on it just seems to go on about the lore of the different races, and I've seen the racial restrictions per class, but not what the races mean. My wife wants to be either an Elf or a Hobbit but can't decide which.

In no particular order:

-You get a racial travel.  Personally I think Hobbit has the bestest one (plus hobbits are just freaking COOL).  Race does not really matter; if you want to min/max then take a look at the "End Game" racial traits (example - Humans get a uber heal every hour or so).  Its really not that big of a deal.
-Do not fear being a Minstrel.  20+ you will have multiple roles you can fill (and can solo extremely effectively), and it is not boring.  Also, roll your character on the f13 server of choice so you have plenty of buddies to help you out.
-Keep in mind you do not "need" a healer.  Check out Guardian and Burg - you would fill a vital role with your current buds that is just as important as a mini.  
-You should be able to issue multiple friend accounts once you activate.  I am going to reactivate my account tonight; I can probably shoot some off (pm me so I remember you need friend invites).


edit.  After reading the patch notes on Fallen Earth I have succumbed to the mystery, so fuck LOTRO.  Sorry.  Check in next week!

[Mrbloodworth]

The refer a friend works but you entering the players email in your account page, this ends an e-mail to them, they then have to do something...... Then! if they sign up after the free 30days (as in are charged) you get points towards a free month.

[Yegolev]

Race is not a huge deal, except that elves are super-gay.   It is mostly about flavor.

Mostly.  Short people cannot wade in water quite as deep as tall people; this amuses my wife (elf) when I (hobbit then dwarf) start swimming while she is walking.  Dwarf race travel is to Thorin's Hall which has the good forges and Metalsmithing (and Weaponsmithing?) Guild.  Hobbits go to Michel Delving which has the Cook Guild and the good farmland.  Elves go to Rivendell, which is pretty damn cool if you are a Scholar since it is kinda hard to get to and that's where the Scholar's Guild is.  I assume Men go to Bree, which doesn't seem to have much to recommend itself except its location...?

So far the other non-endgame racial traits seem mostly useless.  Elves and hobbits get a stealth (less awesome than Burglar class), dwarves get a headbutt.  /shrug

[Mrbloodworth]

Hobbits can throw stones!

[Yegolev]

That is awesome for your hobbit Guardian.

[Cheddar]

That is awesome for your hobbit Guardian.

No.  Its not.

[Yegolev]

quiet u

[Cheddar]

quiet u

I would retort with something witty, yet I fear the Green.  Goddamn mods.


I am going to bed, 'night!