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Author Topic: winter patch: Dominion  (Read 126291 times)
dwindlehop
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on: August 31, 2009, 08:30:46 PM

Quote
Ten free expansions down. Now an eleventh.  Set for Winter 2009, EVE Online: Dominion will focus on what is often cited as EVE's "end game" - alliance warfare. It offers a complete overhaul of the current sovereignty mechanics in favor of a system that's a brilliant mix of our game design vision and the input we've received from fans on forums, at conventions (FANFEST!) and via the CSM. Savvy alliances will benefit greatly from following and understanding these changes, which will receive extensive testing.

In addition, we'll be adding some new epic arcs for pirate factions, offering the first iteration of the integrated social networking platform known as COSMOS, setting our artists free to rebeautify planets and more.

As always, more information is in the pipeline from any number of sources. Check in with our dev blogs, CCP interviews at conventions like PAX and Austin GDC, coverage from Fanfest and Alliance Tournament VII, gaming news and fansites, our forums, Facebook, Youtube, Twitter and the newly launched (but still mysterious) EVE Online: Dominion feature page.

I was very sad to see this subforum had no thread with the idle speculation about what we're getting in Dominion. So here it is!

I have a theory. The sov changes will not change the moonpoo endgame because you can currently mine without sov and I think they won't change that. Anyone care to take bets?
ajax34i
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Reply #1 on: August 31, 2009, 08:37:42 PM

"Brilliant mix of Vision and Forum Requests, and thoroughly tested."  Yeah.

EDIT:  I expect them to let us anchor harvesters, reactors, and labs at moon POSes, just like now, but change all sov-related stuff to be anchored near a (planetary) bunker, or to be bunkers (with set HP and resists).  I have a suspicion that they'll make it so a small recon/black-ops task force (5-10 ships) can take out a cyno jammer and open a system up for invasion.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2009, 08:53:14 PM by ajax34i »
dwindlehop
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Reply #2 on: August 31, 2009, 11:12:01 PM

I do also expect control bunkers. A control bunker that can be captured by a single squad and break the cynojam I don't think they'll do. If they did that it would utterly ruin the eight region R64 networks certain alliances run. Which would be sweet.
NiX
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Reply #3 on: September 01, 2009, 06:17:52 AM

YAY! PRETTIER PLANETS!
Endie
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Reply #4 on: September 01, 2009, 09:23:36 AM

I'm with Ajax on the shift from moons to planets.  And I think it will be a tweaked version of lowsec faction warfare bunkers, perhaps at each planet.  But I imagine that they will have to be capped by opposition for several days, with more than one period of vulnerability.  I believe that most of the stuff that currently happens at moons will stay there (jump bridges etc).

I suspect that there may be more mods for systems that are shootable, but not strictly related to sov.

I imagine that there will be a nerf to moon-mining income, but that there will be a slight boost to personal income in 0.0 which, if taxed, will go some way towards counterbalancing this.  This may take the form of a rebalance of the moon chains to decrease the value of some and boost that of others, but I hope not: space and systems of varying values makes the 0.0 political scene dynamic.  Scarce and valuable resources create conflict.

I think that stations will still matter in sov calculations to some degree.

The last two points (moon-mining changes and stations still mattering) are pure interpolation by looking at what various alliances with CSM reps and lots of moon-mining income are doing.

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Pax
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Reply #5 on: September 01, 2009, 11:29:22 AM

If it works anything similar to FW the attacker would need to "weaken" several systems in order for a single system to go vulnerable and capable of flipping.

I'm still undecided whether this really hurts the defender more than the old system, since right now you can hit multiple systems all across someone's territory to distract and eventually achieve whatever goal. With a bunker system any offense might need to be very focused.

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lac
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Reply #6 on: September 01, 2009, 12:56:18 PM

How about they drop the entire capture the flag/pos/bunker crap and award sov based on the alliance activity in a constellation. An alliance get sov points for every rock mined, every pvp & pve kill, every mission completed, every item produced, exploration site cleared or whatever other metric that indicates activity they can come up with. With a system like that they can easily tie in their xbox game without too much consequences.
Maybe they can couple it with a new system for t2 reactions and be done with the r64 bullshit too. If they can make a system in which it makes no economic or military sense to occupy a larger patch of space than your pilots need they can open up 0.0 and make sov levels a more organic consequence of activity.
Sparky
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Reply #7 on: September 01, 2009, 01:30:57 PM

How about they drop the entire capture the flag/pos/bunker crap and award sov based on the alliance activity in a constellation. An alliance get sov points for every rock mined, every pvp & pve kill, every mission completed, every item produced, exploration site cleared or whatever other metric that indicates activity they can come up with. With a system like that they can easily tie in their xbox game without too much consequences.
Maybe they can couple it with a new system for t2 reactions and be done with the r64 bullshit too. If they can make a system in which it makes no economic or military sense to occupy a larger patch of space than your pilots need they can open up 0.0 and make sov levels a more organic consequence of activity.

Ratting/mining are piss easy to macro while production etc is extremely difficult to interrupt.  Whatever form sov takes it should revolve around blowing shit up.  But the above system HEAVILY weighted to PVP wouldn't be terrible.
tazelbain
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tazelbain


Reply #8 on: September 01, 2009, 02:09:15 PM

Just limit the amount of activity of 'living in a system' can count for sov so you a broad spectum of activity to make strong claim.  Also it should take into acount num of players do the living.  20 chars doing 1 hour of ratting should be worth 4 to 5 times the activity 1 character doing 20 hours of ratting.  Since this likely to done during reboot, it could be a pretty elaborate formula to weed out mocroers.

My idea is to have tokens(command codes?) drop from all 'live in system' activities.  The token can only be turned in at a command post in that system.  Macroers can farm all the tokens they want but if they don't have the military might to take command post it does them no good.  In the opposite scenario: an expansionist alliance could have the might to capture a bunch command posts but since no lives in the systems to turn in tokens, the systems are unproductive.  All unused tokens are deleted weekly.

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eldaec
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Reply #9 on: September 01, 2009, 04:02:17 PM

That all sounds horrible, it sounds like basing sov on who deserves it rather who wins an actual fight for it.

I really can't see that happening. I suspect sov will get even more separated from industrial and other isk related activity.



We'll fight over planets instead of moons for sov, and planets will provide logistical bonuses rather than isk generating opportunities.

Moving the sov fight to planets will actually increase the amount of work needed to conquer a region (since you'll still need to hit the moons for isk), but it will at least allow more systems to switch hands along the way, and will provide ccp with an opportunity to help the logistics guys by using planet ownership to make it easier to run a system.

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Simond
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Reply #10 on: September 01, 2009, 05:35:10 PM

My prediction: CCP screws this up horrendously.

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
patience
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Reply #11 on: September 01, 2009, 06:46:13 PM

That all sounds horrible, it sounds like basing sov on who deserves it rather who wins an actual fight for it.

I really can't see that happening. I suspect sov will get even more separated from industrial and other isk related activity.


CCPs goal has always been to get more people into 0.0. They are going to move away from this system you love because Alliances hold too much territory they don't use.

Quote
The following discussion is performed on an idea level - all possible actions in regards to 0.0 stated here are subject to change and/or not be taken.

CCP created the sov system in the Coldwar expansion to allow alliances to claim 0.0 and has been running for a while, but is in need of renovation and changes.

The current system was given a brief summary. CCP feels the sov system should be more complex, more factors should weigh in, so CCP is thinking along the lines of 'the Pendulum' idea where sov can be determined by multiple forces, each force 'pushing' the pendulum to a desired state. The forces in question could be starbases, agent missions, deadspace complexes, agent bribes, and 'pillars of society' (still a concept).

The idea is to bring more carebears into 0.0 to ally with alliances to effect sov. CCP wants to keep using the old systems to accomplish this, but wants sov to change things like exploration sites, what NPCs spawn, what moon materials are generated, output volumes, agents being available, and possibly NPC market seeding. CCP wants to bring in a system that brings life to 0.0 not just through conflict but market forces and 'seeding' 0.0 with logistics.

CSM Log

OP is assuming its somewhat of a design-goal of eve to make players happy.
this is however not the case.
Goumindong
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Reply #12 on: September 01, 2009, 07:55:50 PM

non-combat sovereignty...

Retarded. Expect goons to take over the galaxy by shitting it up.
Phildo
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Reply #13 on: September 01, 2009, 08:56:52 PM

The era of Shadow of xXDeathXx has arrived!
Comstar
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Reply #14 on: September 02, 2009, 05:39:58 AM

CCP wants to bring in a system that brings life to 0.0 not just through conflict but market forces and 'seeding' 0.0 with logistics.[/b]

Oh happy news, CCP destroys my tech 1 production business.

I like the idea of NPC agents though. Going to be hilarious when we discover that the players who live there currently can't use them because they already shot their standings to -5.0.

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Endie
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Reply #15 on: September 02, 2009, 07:41:45 AM

I like the idea of NPC agents though. Going to be hilarious when we discover that the players who live there currently can't use them because they already shot their standings to -5.0.

They'd pretty much have to add a way of getting NPC faction standings back up from below the lowest levels that agents in that faction speak to you at.  Though they'd maybe forget to do so at first, I grant you.

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Pezzle
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Reply #16 on: September 02, 2009, 07:54:21 AM

Or they simply create new corps that serve the empires in 0.0.  These corps would not derive initial standing from the parent empire.  I still want to hire my agents though =(
palmer_eldritch
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Reply #17 on: September 02, 2009, 09:26:02 AM

Removing or reducing the need to shoot POSs is a good idea, and in particular the fact that wars are won or lost largely on whether you put the right amount of stront in a POS to have it come out of reinforced in the right time zone seems to me to be ridiculous. So I'll be glad if they change that.

I'm not so sure about this idea about getting more "carebears" in 0.0, as that document puts it. When I played in Empire a long time ago, the idea that there were civilised areas and lawless areas with wars taking place seemed quite cool to me. The separation between the players actually added to the atmosphere of the game.

Having said that, there's already a role for "carebears" in 0.0, if that includes miners, industrialists, importers and explorers (who can get T2 stuff and faction mods), as having a dynamic economy in their stations helps a 0.0 alliance a lot. Alliances who exclude these types of players are already hurting themselves.

What I don't really want to see is mindless mission running becoming part of holding space. Life in 0.0 doesn't have to be restricted to PvPers, but it should be a place where you have to take the initiative and use your brain to get by rather than just going to an agent and asking for a mission.
patience
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Reply #18 on: September 02, 2009, 09:40:59 AM

By the very nature of 0.0 if they go there they are taking initiative to try and reap more rewards while being threatened by more risk. People don't play this game just to pvp. Accumalting isk and faction for new shinies is all they want.

OP is assuming its somewhat of a design-goal of eve to make players happy.
this is however not the case.
Pezzle
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Reply #19 on: September 02, 2009, 10:01:14 AM

Moving sov to planet orbit is fine.  You could then introduce a visual overhaul (merge dependent modules to the structure) and introduce subsystem targeting vs structures (the only place I think it is viable).  Hell no to capture the flag though.  The bunker system is not compatible with 0.0.

They could overhaul fueling so it is not such a kick in the nuts and get rid of stront timing too, but that will not happen.  Most people do not care about pvp, content will be generated towards attracting them.
eldaec
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Reply #20 on: September 02, 2009, 03:29:52 PM

non-combat sovereignty...

Retarded. Expect goons to take over the galaxy by shitting it up.

Sov should be decided by activity in the local channel.

imo.

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"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
ajax34i
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Reply #21 on: September 02, 2009, 03:33:27 PM

The idea is to bring more carebears into 0.0 to ally with alliances to effect sov.

They got that completely wrong.  We don't need carebears in 0.0, we're perfectly capable of turning PVE'ers ourselves and exploiting the agents, exploration sites, etc. ourselves.  Why the hell would we need empire carebears?

Reg
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Reply #22 on: September 02, 2009, 04:21:49 PM

Because there aren't enough of you to create a truly large and vibrant economy. Carebears are what? 90+ percent of the players? If you ever want a 0.0 version of Jita you need them.

I wouldn't be too concerned though. For those of us interested in playing market games empire space is the place to be and I doubt that's going to change any time soon.
dwindlehop
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Reply #23 on: September 02, 2009, 05:34:26 PM

Scarce and valuable resources create conflict.
Sure, and this is good. What's bad is fixed scarcity. Even if Eve gets 10M subs, the number of R64 moons will be the same. That will most certainly get fixed, but I imagine it'll be a T2 BPO/Invention type of fix where the old system is allowed to kick along albeit at reduced levels of profitability.

I'm going to stake a claim on planetary orbits not mattering in Dominion, either for sov or isk but installations actually *on* the planet mattering. These might be Dust 514 interactable, but they definitely will not be shootable by a ship.

I do not think there will be sov controlling structures at planets. They'll ditch the concept of spam altogether, not make it more manageable.

Thanks for the 2009 CSM CCP Meeting minutes-- I was actually trying to find those last week. That certainly makes it sound like I'm on the wrong track with the idea of a control bunker.

Regarding "starbases, agent missions, deadspace complexes, agent bribes," what makes you think the agents in question wouldn't be player alliance NPCs?
patience
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Reply #24 on: September 02, 2009, 09:09:04 PM

Because there aren't enough of you to create a truly large and vibrant economy. Carebears are what? 90+ percent of the players? If you ever want a 0.0 version of Jita you need them.

I wouldn't be too concerned though. For those of us interested in playing market games empire space is the place to be and I doubt that's going to change any time soon.

Actually no. There is someone who strongly believed CCP was going this route and has built up a thread in Eve general convincing Empire players to go into 0.0. It will be interesting if his strategy pays off big time or only in a small way.

OP is assuming its somewhat of a design-goal of eve to make players happy.
this is however not the case.
ajax34i
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Reply #25 on: September 02, 2009, 09:20:23 PM

Come on, "large and vibrant economy"?  That sounds like a CCP marketing guy desperately looking for a buzzword - anything - he can use.  What's the purpose of 15 guys 0.01-isk'ing each other over Tech 1 junk?  The 0.0 outposts I've seen have sufficient quantities of all the ships and stuff I've needed, and cheaply (considering the income I could get from ratting locally).

And every time Jita is mentioned, it's with a groan.  
« Last Edit: September 02, 2009, 09:23:56 PM by ajax34i »
palmer_eldritch
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Reply #26 on: September 02, 2009, 09:56:43 PM

By the very nature of 0.0 if they go there they are taking initiative to try and reap more rewards while being threatened by more risk. People don't play this game just to pvp. Accumalting isk and faction for new shinies is all they want.

Well yeah, I talked about all the people in 0.0 who do stuff apart from PvP. I just don't think going back and forth to an agent should become a bigger part of 0.0 than it is.
Reg
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Reply #27 on: September 03, 2009, 01:23:14 AM

Come on, "large and vibrant economy"?  That sounds like a CCP marketing guy desperately looking for a buzzword - anything - he can use.  What's the purpose of 15 guys 0.01-isk'ing each other over Tech 1 junk?  The 0.0 outposts I've seen have sufficient quantities of all the ships and stuff I've needed, and cheaply (considering the income I could get from ratting locally).

And every time Jita is mentioned, it's with a groan.  

/shrug. That's fine. You play your game and I'll play mine.
Goumindong
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Reply #28 on: September 04, 2009, 03:53:05 PM

So, the new faction ships have been announced. The dev blogs read as such...

"Seriously, if you didn't think we had a hard on for Amarr recently, what the fuck is wrong with you?"
patience
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Reply #29 on: September 04, 2009, 09:05:30 PM

I'm not that familiar with Eve's  early years but aren't the trying to make up for all the crap they gave Amarr years ago?

OP is assuming its somewhat of a design-goal of eve to make players happy.
this is however not the case.
sanctuary
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Reply #30 on: September 05, 2009, 04:37:12 AM

WTB Imperial Navy geddon

Quote
Armageddon Navy Issue:

• Slot layout: 8 high, 4 med, 8 lows, 7 turrets, no launchers
• Fittings: 557 CPU, 17325 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots
• Bonuses unchanged next to normal hull
• Hitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (9316), armor (9961) and shields (8203)
• Dronebay: +50m3 dronebay, bandwidth unchanged
• Sensor: +25% radar sensor strength

mmm yummy
Meester
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Reply #31 on: September 05, 2009, 04:54:01 PM

I still want to hire my agents though =(

Id like to make myself an agent - kill ten goons and receive a mystery prize, although I would probably be beaten to the punch by goons themselves.
Endie
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Reply #32 on: September 05, 2009, 07:19:07 PM

I still want to hire my agents though =(

Id like to make myself an agent - kill ten goons and receive a mystery prize, although I would probably be beaten to the punch by goons themselves.

Only if I get loyalty points.  Oh and what are your faction ships like?

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Comstar
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Reply #33 on: September 06, 2009, 05:17:51 AM

news from PAX

Bolded the parts I didn't know and so fat as I know, haven't been announced.

Quote
...they are simplifying the way in which you claim space and attack people, and they are also letting alliances upgrade their space and invest in it.

Along with that, they are rebalancing the power of ships, making adjustments so that no one type of ship will be heavily favored. It's always been thought that the outcome of a battle was more or less settled with the presence of a Titan capital ship, the largest ship in the game, as its doomsday weapon could potentially wipe out an entire fleet. However, in the expansion this weapon is being changed from an area-effect to a single-target one. On the other end of the spectrum, they are introducing fighter-bombers, small ships much like the current fighters but which can destroy capital ships. Also in the pipeline are so-called "speedboat missions" for smaller ships, as most of the existing PvE missions tend to focus on the larger battleships.

As social networking seems to be the buzzword of the new millennium, EVE steps up to the plate by introducing COSMOS, a social networking framework that allows players to create Facebook-like pages for their EVE characters, allowing them to maintain friend lists, write blogs, update their status, send each other messages and upload pictures. E-mail sent ingame can be read by the recipient through the website. Corporations and alliances will also have their own page.

But, according to Noah, this is only the beginning of where they want to take this feature. Eventually, they want players to be able to access all sorts of ingame information from this website and even update their skills or buy and trade goods from the market without logging into the game, possibly even from their mobile phones. All the data that goes into the social network will also have API support, which will be valuable to fansites once they start putting in features like the calendar and market data. EVE currently supports an ingame web browser that's a little dated so this functionality will also be upgraded so players can access the website from within the game.

With the expansion, they are introducing more tutorials for advanced stuff like PvP and exploration. These tutorials are optional, meant for players who think they might need a little bit of help before they venture out into the cruel world. Planet graphics are being revamped so each planet will be unique and truly beautiful. Also, players will now be able to gift other players with Pilot License Extensions (PLEX), which are game time cards that can be purchased from the EVE website and that can be traded ingame.

How long have Titan's been ruling the game? About time they got nurfed.  I also look forward to the speedboat missons. I had more fun doing level 3 missions in a Jaguar and level 4's in a vagabond.

Defending the Galaxy, from the Scum of the Universe, with nothing but a flashlight and a tshirt. We need tanks Boo, lots of tanks!
Sparky
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Reply #34 on: September 06, 2009, 05:30:03 AM

I'm glad CCP feels able to make long overdue changes now their pet alliance is dead Ohhhhh, I see.
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