CCP Shanghai making console FPS aka EvE 360 - via Kotaku

[Endie]

I think the number of people who care about sov is probably larger than the number of people directly affected by it.

I though pretty much every player in Eve is effected by SOV.  Moon mining and SOV go hand in hand.  Moon resources ties directly into the T2 market and most players buy T2 items as soon as they can train to use them.  SOV conflicts direct effect mineral prices which in turn directly effect everyone playing.  Did trit loose 25% of it value due to end of the big war or loot drop changes?  I do not know but could believe it was the end of big war about SOV.

The people tangentially affected like that don't care who holds sov.

Edit: ha Amarr nobody reads the bottom post on page 7

[gryeyes]

This is fucking obvious you idiot savant that's what I'm fucking saying to you hahahahaha, god you're so fucking dumb it's unbelievable.

 

Three posts in a row, dont hurt yourself with the stupid now. You know a sizable portion of this thread is people explaining why a PC version would actually hurt the game, combined with the mountain of difficulty having PC/Console versions interacting with each other. Maybe "obvious" does not mean what you think it does?

The people tangentially affected like that don't care who holds sov.

You'll notice people tend to give a shit about things regardless if they are "directly effected" them or not. Of course this tangent is completely irrelevant to the truism of not "Shitting where you sleep" being a wise course of action.

[Amarr HM]

Three posts in a row, dont hurt yourself with the stupid now.

You're right I shouldn't bother responding to your content lite posts.

[Venkman]

Going to a console FPS is all about the stretchability of the brand, not trying to appeal to the current audience (which is not numerous enough, and has a proven interest in not leaving the world to do something else). If this idea fails, it won't be due to technical limitations nor which console this appears on nor whether Shanghai is the right developer nor for any reason at all related to Ambulation. All of that can be solved, some quite easily.

Failure will be because the "Eve" brand means dickall to anyone outside of one tiny pocket of the MMO space. High brand awareness needs high affinity to be a success, and the latter Eve does not have. And no matter how much marketing put behind it, you'll never outspend those with a vested interested in continuing their specifically-FPS franchises.

tl;dr: if it's a fundamentally bad idea, no technical solution nor any amount of faith will solve it.

Oh, so yea, I guess it is like Ambulation. 

None of this is saying anything new. But I thought it worth repeating after the yelling of the last few pages.

[eldaec]

Personally, I think if they really must introduce console players into eve, they should be doing it through something other than an FPS.

Some kind of third person no-aiming-required action rpg thing, PoP meets Batman meets Spy vs Spy or whatever.

There are plenty of genres that work just fine within the limitations of a console, and where you can also keep the PC players who bring a built in market from EVE, thereby guaranteeing that everyone would be able to regard the project as a success no matter what happens on the console.

[Bzalthek]

I don't think they want the PC audience to touch this game unless they're of the hardcore mentality where they'd buy a console just to give their EVE corp and advantage.  EVE's existence is propped up almost completely on the dramatic interaction of other players.  They don't want to dilute this pool of players by providing them another gaming option.

[Amarr HM]

Failure will be because the "Eve" brand means dickall to anyone outside of one tiny pocket of the MMO space. High brand awareness needs high affinity to be a success, and the latter Eve does not have. And no matter how much marketing put behind it, you'll never outspend those with a vested interested in continuing their specifically-FPS franchises.

Not only the brand but the mindset and gameplay of Eve is currently based a lot around strict timeframes, this is something I can't see translatiing well to a pick up and play environment. Even if they work around this how to induct console players to play round the clock on shitty backwater systems in Eve? There's thousands of planets in shitty systems that needs sov maintained does this mean thousands of mini FPS servers? I can't see this working for many reasons but interested to see their approach.

[Falwell]

I don't think they want the PC audience to touch this game unless they're of the hardcore mentality where they'd buy a console just to give their EVE corp and advantage.  EVE's existence is propped up almost completely on the dramatic interaction of other players.  They don't want to dilute this pool of players by providing them another gaming option.

Which also leads to, what I believe is, one of CCP's big misunderstandings. People outside of Eve are into the drama stories, NOT the IP itself. Tears are bringing the interest, not backstory, setting or lore.

[patience]

I don't think they want the PC audience to touch this game unless they're of the hardcore mentality where they'd buy a console just to give their EVE corp and advantage.  EVE's existence is propped up almost completely on the dramatic interaction of other players.  They don't want to dilute this pool of players by providing them another gaming option.

Which also leads to, what I believe is, one of CCP's big misunderstandings. People outside of Eve are into the drama stories, NOT the IP itself. Tears are bringing the interest, not backstory, setting or lore.

I doubt that. CCP's CEO have said they are trying to use DUST to make the Eve IP bigger. That declaration has to already assume the Eve IP isn't strong by itself. Besides many of the fans understand Eve is about drama. It's doubtful the game creators are oblivious to perception even if they themselves for some stupid  (which they hardly are) reason don't believe that.

[Venkman]

There's a lot of ways to grow a brand. But you usually find an adjacent space with an audience that has some tangential interest and give them the game they associate with your brand.

Suppose for example that Sins of the Solar Empire was branded Eve but otherwise developed the way it was. It probably wouldn't have sold many more units than Sins did, but that sort of extension makes sense. Or, at least, a lot more sense than going to a completely different demographic on a completely different medium with a completely different game as your first step. A parallel here is Halo to Halo Wars, but at least that attempt was on the same platform.

Still though, I'd like DUST to be successful. Eve is a universe I'm interested in, but the Eve sim is not something I'm interested in playing.

[DLRiley]

Isn't the EvE sim basically the EvE universe? I reckon that if you find the EvE universe interesting you probably aren't the type to touch a console fps with a 12 inch pole.

[eldaec]

12 inches wouldn't be a very impressive pole.

You need better metaphors.

[gryeyes]

Small poles aside, why would liking the EVE universe preclude playing FPS's?   

[Falwell]

Yet another interview with Hilmar post GDC presentation. Looks like there's a good possibility it'll be playable at fanfest.

[patience]

Small poles aside, why would liking the EVE universe preclude playing FPS's?   

Seriously. I hate debating points like these because it implies people are one dimensional creatures instead of beings that specialize in their roles and tastes, but still have the capacity and inclination to experiment in new directions; because they have the ability to think and choose instead of acting solely on gut instinct or preprogrammed commands.

Sure you may know CCP as a developer of spreadsheet gameplay enhanced by drama but that doesn't mean they should be held to your expectations they should only make the same type of game you are used to them making.
Sure players of Eve play it because they like the way the mechanics in that game work but that doesn't in of itself they are uninterested in other forms of gaming.

If you looked at my console and handheld library as a kid you would think I only played platformers but my library was vastly different on the pc and I spent a lot of time at arcades as well where half the games I played was different from my pc games and none of them were like my console games.

It's a terrible assumption to believe people don't find other things interesting or they can't become capable at new roles. At least CCP is staying within game development instead of trying something really out of their known field like building nuclear powerplants. * @ myself*

[eldaec]

Yet another interview with Hilmar post GDC presentation. Looks like there's a good possibility it'll be playable at fanfest.

Looks a lot like traditional console fps autoaim based nonsense. 

[schild]

1. That wasn't even gameplay. That was either scripted or straight up CGI.
2. This now strikes me as an engine for propelling their social networking site into some sort of mmog status. I don't know what, or why, I think he said Cosmos, but ask me if I care.
3. COULD THE NEXT INTERVIEW ZOOM IN ON HIS FACE MORE, PLEASE. Ugh. It was like MTV Grind except instead of asses it was chapped lips. (No, I'm not trying to insult the guy, more whoever decided to do the camerawork).

[eldaec]

I'm pretty sure it was scripted but using the real engine.


The way the player was moving/turning/strafing/aiming like he was trapped in a jar of molasses felt just right for controller fps.

[schild]

The way the player was moving/turning/strafing/aiming like he was trapped in a jar of molasses felt just right for controller fps.

I disagree with what you said. Not about the second part, console FPSs feel like molasses, yes. Rather, the video looked way too good for any current console game; lighting, shadows, etc were spot on. Rather, there was no player and there was never a player and I'm erring towards target video/render.

[gryeyes]

Was real pretty whatever it was.

[UnSub]

Or, at least, a lot more sense than going to a completely different demographic on a completely different medium with a completely different game as your first step. A parallel here is Halo to Halo Wars, but at least that attempt was on the same platform.

Broadly when it comes to growing a brand, you can go the product line extension - Halo to Halo 2, maybe Halo Wars (or Coke to Diet Coke - same category, new product) - or a brand extension - in this case, EvE to DUST (such as Dunhills releasing aftershave where its main category is in cigarettes - new category, new product).

Although it is a stretch for EvE to move towards a console FPS, it might not be a big issue. As I said before, if it is a success it opens up a new audience to EvE that is otherwise closed to it. The PlanetSide-on-consoles route could be very popular and I'm sure about 0.002 seconds after closed beta launches someone will have cracked the console version to work on a PC. It'll come down to the implementation.

[Venkman]

Well, yea, success always retroactively justifies the decision making process. But Halo to Halo 2 is a lot different from Halo to Halo Wars. And even that isn't as far a stretch as Eve PC space sim to Eve console FPS.

The other factor here is that so far there's been nothing shown nor said that specifically says DUST is MMO in scale, just that it links to one. Of course it's possible I missed something. But I don't see Planetside here. I see co-op and competitive FPS, something appropriate to the console platforms. Whatever persistence results from battles will exist in whatever meta connection they make to the core Eve game.

1. That wasn't even gameplay. That was either scripted or straight up CGI.

Wasn't that the same video from last week? The game play footage was exactly the same.

Scripted probably, I don't think it was CGI. It looked awesome, but not in some realm of unbelievably, if we're talking PS3 anyway. Couldn't a buff PC running DX10 pull that off too?

Otherwise, yea, we don't need to be THAT close for a good interview.

[patience]

But I don't see Planetside here. I see co-op and competitive FPS, something appropriate to the console platforms. Whatever persistence results from battles will exist in whatever meta connection they make to the core Eve game.

Well initially I thought DUST was going to be small scale battles like 32 players max but in an interview he said the rooms they are going for would range from 16-256 players. (well after watching that youtube clip I see that it is supposed to be less than 255, bah) So at the very least they are getting close to the large sizes PS offered while at the same time offer more intimate sessions for people who want to get away from feeling like a cog in the war machine.

[tmp]

Rather, the video looked way too good for any current console game; lighting, shadows, etc were spot on.

I think most of these shadows were baked in the textures. Don't know really, it didn't look that much different quality-wise from what Mass Effect 2 people are showing. If there's one thing CCP is really strong at it's their... taste i guess, when it comes to setting up lighting, textures and other gfx stuff to achieve some really good overall effect. So could see this video as something they'd actually make without having to resort to renders.

[Count Nerfedalot]

I'm still curious about how sovereignty plays out.  The earlier debates about boots vs flyboys was the wrong analogy anyway.  This is naval island warfare, where blockade, interdiction, and long-term starvation are the keys to having control change hands.  Yes, you need boots on the ground to take or hold it, but controlling space should allow you to deny the opposition any benefit from their ground holdings, at which point the ground war simply becomes a mopping up operation after the real war has been won or lost at sea.  And almost unnecessary to boot if you are willing to wait long enough to starve the ground forces out.  Some more interesting questions in that light include:

Is there the possibility for interdicting an invasion force, or a supply run?  If the space powers can supply goodies to the grunts, shouldn't those space powers be able to contest each other's ability to deliver said goodies?

How is it even possible to land an invading force if the defenders control the space around the planet?

Can you destroy a troop ship thus possibly winning a ground war before it starts?

If side A holds a planet but side B controls space, how can side A possibly get any benefit from the resources of the planet?  If it's automagical teleportation of resources to the market, that's crap.  If there are blockade runners (and thus the need for blockades) that could be pretty cool.

[eldaec]

Given what we know of EVE lore and CCP design philosophy; my guess is that on order to take control of an installation on a planet, the fleets will have to shoot at a shield for 15 minutes then drop a pod onto the surface.

X hours later the dust players on the attacking side can clone jump to the pod and start the FPS instance. (X being a number adjustable by the defending team choosing how much strontium goes in a fuel bay and calculated from that by some arcane formula only understood by 3 people, 2 of whom are dead, and the third of whom is in Epsilon squad.)

Defenders can clone jump in any time they like.


Yes, through control of space you could restrict how much benefit an alliance gets from the ground (for instance blockading to stop industrial product being shipped out), but in practice complete denial would be as difficult as locking an alliance out of an NPC station or out of a station they still own. It is theoretically possible, but only practical in extreme circumstances where the blockading alliance has extreme motivation to log on - you'd be talking about something on a par with the siege of PR-8CA.

[Amarr HM]

Any idea or mechanic that means the console gamers are reliant on Eve players to do something means waiting around for the FPS players which will suck for them, this is assuming Dust players are tied to an alliance/corp. If it's just a bunch of guys fighting arbitrarily for which ever side they choose as they logon it will suck for the Eve players as they have little control over the battle once they do their bit. Even if this was a PC only port this would an issue the fact it's console you have a larger number of people at your disposal but only if the game is as good as the other FPS's out there. Might be too many ifs and buts in there.

[Venkman]

All of what has just been said is why I don't think there'll be nearly as direct a connection between the two different playerbases.

But I don't see Planetside here. I see co-op and competitive FPS, something appropriate to the console platforms. Whatever persistence results from battles will exist in whatever meta connection they make to the core Eve game.

Well initially I thought DUST was going to be small scale battles like 32 players max but in an interview he said the rooms they are going for would range from 16-256 players. (well after watching that youtube clip I see that it is supposed to be less than 255, bah) So at the very least they are getting close to the large sizes PS offered while at the same time offer more intimate sessions for people who want to get away from feeling like a cog in the war machine.

Interesting. Thanks for clarifying. Yea, sure, technically PS could have larger battles than that. But 99% of the genre is not going to expect nearly that range anyway. And I'd guess almost no console player will (whoever's left in EQOA notwithstanding).

This is now the thing I'm most curious about. Getting that many people in an FPS without gimping the UI to below acceptable levels for those FPS players is still so elusive most companies don't even try.

[Engels]

From the interview:

I don't think it makes a lot of sense to be interacting in realtime while you are fighting on the planet and flying in space

Is  he's just CYA for the fact that they're just pimping thier social networking site Cosmos, as schild suggested, or does he just not see that this would be of interest?

[eldaec]

This is now the thing I'm most curious about. Getting that many people in an FPS without gimping the UI to below acceptable levels for those FPS players is still so elusive most companies don't even try.

He didn't say 16-255.

He said the maximum was higher than 16 and less than 255. He was trying to be cute.

[Falwell]

Looks a lot like traditional console fps autoaim based nonsense. 

Yeah it does unfortunately. I can handle the slow-mo turn speeds etc. but Christ, autoaim? Hell, we couldn't even tolerate it in Goldeneye. In fact, anybody who suggested it during our almost nightly Goldeneye / get-shitfaced shindigs was ostracised.

[patience]

Any idea or mechanic that means the console gamers are reliant on Eve players to do something means waiting around for the FPS players which will suck for them, this is assuming Dust players are tied to an alliance/corp.

I doubt no one disagrees with this.

Let's assume DUST soldiers are not only supposed to be involved in SOV but also FW. FW is already much more conducive to pick up and play gameplay. So at the beginning of teir career DUST players are fighting for their factions to make low sec more civilized. But since CCP is interested in getting everyone to move out to 0.0 they'll make such planetary conquests meaningless.

As a result FW will be the vehicle to ensure the console players get constant action while SOV ensures they get the type of meaningful gameplay MMOs can provide, once the SOV bureaucrats get something accomplished.

[DLRiley]

Pick up and play and EvE being put in the same category 

[eldaec]

FW

Yeah, I think this is the key to giving dust players bikes to ride while they wait for their fleet to open opportunities in the real war. I imagine they'll have the factions issue open contracts all day long.


In EVE players can be occupied with NPC missions and ratting, not sure that translates so well to the FPS.

[DLRiley]

2 hour que for generic planet 192  . This will end in tears.