CCP Shanghai making console FPS aka EvE 360 - via Kotaku

[Bzalthek]

I still see nothing to indicate that the worst case scenario is nothing more than:

-Console game flops
-Lack of console participation ruins the fun in EVE for a week or two
-CCP is collectively sad and heartbroken, but not retarded so...
-Game impact from the console title is scaled back to 'little to none'

It's a risk - I personally feel the game is doomed, Lords of Everquest style, but hopefully they come up with a winner. And if not, there's always plan B.

I agree.  It's not like Dust is going to be permanently affixed to the MMO come hell of high water.  If the FPS flops, it's not going to drag down EVE, they'll just change shit again.  Some people are going to be pissed for a while until they do, and some people are going to be pissed anyway because gamers are, almost by definition, pissy people.  Such is life.

[NiX]

Just to quell those who say it's not fair because if their DUST team sucks, they lose the planet: It takes more than one DUST vs DUST fight to capture a planet, so the whole "What if my team sucks?" thing won't determine your loss from the beginning.

[Surlyboi]

And hell, depending on how the dynamics of EVE effect the ground game, the "my team sucks" argument my sometimes be rendered moot via the "peace through superior firepower" doctrine. In my days playing Planetside, some seemingly lost facility defenses were saved by a couple of well-timed orbital strikes.

[eldaec]

So many PC FPS purists on this board who don't realize they're a minority...

Don't be stupid. Everyone here understands that there are more consoles than gaming PCs. But it is only relevant if your primary goal is to make money for CCP. Mine isn't.

Just to quell those who say it's not fair because if their DUST team sucks, they lose the planet: It takes more than one DUST vs DUST fight to capture a planet, so the whole "What if my team sucks?" thing won't determine your loss from the beginning.

This is also kind of beside the point, in a sov situation you can be certain that everyone fighting will be aligned to the major alliances (the merc contract thing is BS), if your team sucks, it is because your alliance is sucks, and you are probably losing in space anyhow.

To me, this whole set up seems like a bad idea because the primary audience (EVE players) is being at worst locked out of the game, and at best unnecessarily irritated by them having to fuck around with consoles, and the secondary audience (not EVE players) would rather play CoD.

Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but I'm expecting a below average FPS, that is only interesting because it stuck on the side of EVE.

Despite that, let me play it on a PC, without shadowrun-esque control handicapping, and then as far as I'm concerned the console people can do whatever the hell they want.

I still see nothing to indicate that the worst case scenario is nothing more than:

-Console game flops
-Lack of console participation ruins the fun in EVE for a week or two
-CCP is collectively sad and heartbroken, but not retarded so...
-Game impact from the console title is scaled back to 'little to none'

It's a risk - I personally feel the game is doomed, Lords of Everquest style, but hopefully they come up with a winner. And if not, there's always plan B.

But this is true ofc.

[patience]

now they have to share it with the mouth breathing 12 year old console FPS crowd.

Fixed to represent the current idiocy I'm seeing on the Eve O forums.


I think it's unfair to say the Eve IP has no cachet among gamers outside of those who play the MMO. Whenever an Eve thread comes up elsewhere there are a handful of people saying they tried getting into the game because the world and politics attracted them but the gameplay sucked.

That tells me the IP does hold sway among people. But the MMO is a huge barrier because that's the primary way to experience the IP. If Dust 514 is a competent shooter like S.T.A.L.K.E.R. or The Conduit it will do a lot to make the IP more accessible.

[Rendakor]

Surly, my comment wasn't directed specifically at you; rather at the general sense that ignoring PC gamers would somehow hurt this title.

eldaec, you should realize that CCP's goal is to make more money, not make you happy. If they make it PC exclusive, they limit their market. If they make the console and PC versions not interact, that creates all sorts of silly scenarios: "squad A can't defend against squad B's attack because one is on Xbox and the other is on PC ". If you allow them to interact without handicap, the minority gets an advantage over the majority, which is just as retarded. None of those three make sense from a business standpoint.

Dust is not being released as Eve-fanservice only.

[Surlyboi]

Surly, my comment wasn't directed specifically at you; rather at the general sense that ignoring PC gamers would somehow hurt this title.

On that, we're in complete agreement. This game will rise or fall based on it's quality as a shooter.

[NiX]

He did mention RTS elements, maybe that's the reason for the shit eating grin. PC people can directly command the kiddies with bonuses to following orders.

[DLRiley]

Oh geez no one at CCP ever played Savage 2...

[gryeyes]

Surly, my comment wasn't directed specifically at you; rather at the general sense that ignoring PC gamers would somehow hurt this title.

You dont think a wider audience for a FPS/RTS/MMO might exist on the PC? Trying to talk about this title as is if it has Halo potential is a bit stupid. Nothing beyond the "FPS" will increase this games chance at console success. The other features guarantee limited console appeal. If they are going for the monies why include design choices that nobody on a console gives a fuck about?

At least on the PC its guaranteed the EVE fanbase and they can easily impose a subscription fee. Ignoring the complete inexperience of the Shanghai based studio.

[ajax34i]

I know I'm in a minority as a PC games player, and those piracy numbers were quoted here before (in another thread) I think.  Even if DUST flops, it will still probably double or triple CCP's subscriber count.  And no, the money they gain isn't going to go into EVE, much.  It's an old game, 2003-2009, 6 years; CCP is going to want to develop new games.  EVE servers are gonna close down eventually, which is a possibility that this DUST announcement reminded EVE players of.  That, and the fact that we've wasted those 6 years of our lives.

EDIT:  anyway, given that the competition in the FPS genre is stiff, and given CCP's track record with patches and ability to debug, I think it is going to flop.

[Venkman]

So many PC FPS purists on this board who don't realize they're a minority...

You misunderstand. We know full well we're the minority. But ignoring the one platform upon which Eve exists for the one market it serves makes a big assumption about the power of the EVE "brand" outside of the socioeconomic uniserver PC game. How many console gamers are going to think "DUST" any more than a generic sci-fi shooter in an age of ODST? Heck, how many console gamers even know what Eve is except in some passing mention by some guy who knew a guy on a forum?

It looks great, and there's a lot of promise. But with all the studios closing, or being bought and ripped apart, the harsh reality is that this industry isn't any more recession proof than any other. So it's going to take a lot more than "from the makers of Eve" to really get anyone but the existing and lapsed Eve players to give a shit. And how many of the core fans are looking to go groundside with a skill-based action shooter?

[DayDream]

PC players as minority of paying single-box-FPS customers, sure.  But PC players are the majority of MMO players, and the majority of EVE players.  I think the biggest marketing bonus CCP is going to get for Dust514 is an easier time with game news sites, and that's it.

Mixing PC and console audiences may indeed get CCP more boxes sold when the door opens.  And that may be all that they care about.  But that could easily turn into a poor business decision when console heavyweights get torn apart by faster PC players.  On the other hand, I wouldn't put it past CCP to change the design balance enough to make console players competitive at middling levels.

Either way CCP goes about including PC players in the Dust universe, I agree the game itself will make or break based on it's own merits.  I guess the interesting option to me personally, is how tying it into the eve universe might alleviate Planetside's problem of futility.

[Falwell]

So many PC FPS purists on this board who don't realize they're a minority...

You misunderstand. We know full well we're the minority. But ignoring the one platform upon which Eve exists for the one market it serves makes a big assumption about the power of the EVE "brand" outside of the socioeconomic uniserver PC game.

This is the biggie. I'd wager that your average console player knows little to nothing of the Eve universe simply because it is such a core PC experience and is the antithesis to most console games in general.

CCP is going to have to go BIG on marketing as launch nears. A few banners on the MMO sites and a few articles on the typical gaming sites accomplishes jack shit. We're talking TV ads, console marketplace ads, magazine and newspaper articles, the full meal deal. Far north of what even Warhammer and AoC pumped out marketing wise.

[Endie]

So many PC FPS purists on this board who don't realize they're a minority...

You misunderstand. We know full well we're the minority. But ignoring the one platform upon which Eve exists for the one market it serves makes a big assumption about the power of the EVE "brand" outside of the socioeconomic uniserver PC game.

This is the biggie. I'd wager that your average console player knows little to nothing of the Eve universe simply because it is such a core PC experience and is the antithesis to most console games in general.

CCP is going to have to go BIG on marketing as launch nears. A few banners on the MMO sites and a few articles on the typical gaming sites accomplishes jack shit. We're talking TV ads, console marketplace ads, magazine and newspaper articles, the full meal deal. Far north of what even Warhammer and AoC pumped out marketing wise.

If they bring it to market then journalists will fall over themselves to write about it.  The average FPS is, to this day, little more than a mod of CS or Quake with some graphical upgrades.  To a lazy journo something with a hook as big as Dust's will be a welcome delight.

[Falwell]

True, I'm interested to see if the console crowd will be as fired up about the persistence and interdependence as the press are however. Which just takes us back to the game needing very, very good shooter mechanics if it hopes to float. Essentially, we just performed an internet Chinese fire drill. Good stuff.

[patience]

So many PC FPS purists on this board who don't realize they're a minority...

You misunderstand. We know full well we're the minority. But ignoring the one platform upon which Eve exists for the one market it serves makes a big assumption about the power of the EVE "brand" outside of the socioeconomic uniserver PC game.

This is the biggie. I'd wager that your average console player knows little to nothing of the Eve universe simply because it is such a core PC experience and is the antithesis to most console games in general.

CCP is going to have to go BIG on marketing as launch nears. A few banners on the MMO sites and a few articles on the typical gaming sites accomplishes jack shit. We're talking TV ads, console marketplace ads, magazine and newspaper articles, the full meal deal. Far north of what even Warhammer and AoC pumped out marketing wise.

If they bring it to market then journalists will fall over themselves to write about it.  The average FPS is, to this day, little more than a mod of CS or Quake with some graphical upgrades.  To a lazy journo something with a hook as big as Dust's will be a welcome delight.

Game journalists are not enough but they are good at creating a core fanbase. CCP is required to spend money on mass media adds to really draw attention to DUST.

Frankly I hope they are willing to spend that money because I want to see what their marketing team can do with  a large budget and I'm confident they can deliver. Whoever are those people working in that department are brilliant and have made some very clever ads in the last four years. If I was millionaire and wanted a marketing team I would poach some of their members.

[Venkman]

Eve already has a core. That's the problem. It's both too small and enamored with a game that is completely not what DUST is.

Then add what little we know about the actual game play of DUST besides footage that makes me think that's what Huxley should have been. It looks awesome, but whatever draw the Eve brand has through robust marketing is only going to get people to show up once. If it's another one of Endie's CS knockoffs, that's not enough to set it apart from the other CS knockoffs.

Having said that, I'm still excited for what this could be. CCP is a great combination of visionary, stubborn, and (mostly) realistic about the strength of their property. But being known for precisely one thing has its drawbacks

[Falwell]

Having said that, I'm still excited for what this could be. CCP is a great combination of visionary, stubborn, and (mostly) realistic about the strength of their property. But being known for precisely one thing has its drawbacks

Oh without a doubt. I fail to see how MMO players couldn't be excited about this. Even if FPS games aren't your bag, or Eve for that matter, this is still a big step towards very, very grand scale MMO's. That alone should have people's interest.

[Endie]

Having said that, I'm still excited for what this could be. CCP is a great combination of visionary, stubborn, and (mostly) realistic about the strength of their property. But being known for precisely one thing has its drawbacks

Absolutely.  Everyone (including me) has been bitching about MMOs being staid and stuck in a decade-old rut.  Here we have one of the proven innovators in the genre announcing that for three years they've secretly been developing a twitch, non-diku MMO that ties into their existing product with each impacting the other to some extent.  I don't really see why anyone interested in the MMO genre wouldn't want to see that sort of risk-taking behaviour.  It certainly puts the hype about the same-old-same-old disaster which was Vanguard into sharp contrast.

[Engels]

makes me think that's what Huxley should have been.

So we probably won't see it till we've signed intergalactic trading treaties and entered the first Jupiter-Earth War IRL.

[UnSub]

If they bring it to market then journalists will fall over themselves to write about it.  The average FPS is, to this day, little more than a mod of CS or Quake with some graphical upgrades.  To a lazy journo something with a hook as big as Dust's will be a welcome delight.

I see something Planetside-esque on consoles as being exactly the kind of thing console journalists could get excited about.

[gryeyes]

announcing that for three years they've secretly been developing a twitch, non-diku MMO that ties into their existing product with each impacting the other to some extent. 

Holy shit, whats the name of the non-diku twitch MMO? Or are we just throwing the MMO label around for kicks? This game could be counterstrike with a leaderboard that updates into EVE, lets not go projecting grandness onto stupid.

Who could possibly have a problem with innovation! Taking "risks" with design and platform for no observable justification beyond the mythic "console EVE fans" is not deserving of anything but disdain. Stupid is not revolutionary, the "console" factor does nothing but exclude the only people who who have any idea what EVE or CCP is and bring a set of restrictions that hinder every single design goal we have heard.

Please stop with the, WHO HAS PROBLEMS WITH PROGRESS ITS A NEW DAWN OF INNOVATION WITH CONSOLE FPS/RTS HURF BLURF. The premise is stupid, the execution nearly impossible to make work and even if perfectly executed it still wont be bringing in a wide audience.

[schild]

Absolutely.  Everyone (including me) has been bitching about MMOs being staid and stuck in a decade-old rut.  Here we have one of the proven innovators in the genre announcing that for three years they've secretly been developing a twitch, non-diku MMO that ties into their existing product with each impacting the other to some extent.  I don't really see why anyone interested in the MMO genre wouldn't want to see that sort of risk-taking behaviour.  It certainly puts the hype about the same-old-same-old disaster which was Vanguard into sharp contrast.

Oh bugger off. Gryeyes nailed it, but even more so, like I said: They had enough trouble with walking. I'm 100% sure I'd rather them be putting Shanghai to work on the White Wolf MMOG than some nebulous fps game.

Edit: Also, I have even less faith in the Chinese than I do in CCP to make a game that succeeds on merits instead of faults.

[Endie]

announcing that for three years they've secretly been developing a twitch, non-diku MMO that ties into their existing product with each impacting the other to some extent.

Holy shit, whats the name of the non-diku twitch MMO? Or are we just throwing the MMO label around for kicks? This game could be counterstrike with a leaderboard that updates into EVE, lets not go projecting grandness onto stupid.

Who could possibly have a problem with innovation! Taking "risks" with design and platform for no observable justification beyond the mythic "console EVE fans" is not deserving of anything but disdain. Stupid is not revolutionary, the "console" factor does nothing but exclude the only people who who have any idea what EVE or CCP is and bring a set of restrictions that hinder every single design goal we have heard.

Please stop with the, WHO HAS PROBLEMS WITH PROGRESS ITS A NEW DAWN OF INNOVATION WITH CONSOLE FPS/RTS HURF BLURF. The premise is stupid, the execution nearly impossible to make work and even if perfectly executed it still wont be bringing in a wide audience.

Please stop with the "this is the end of the universe liquidate your ISK while you still have time" blurf.  You've offered no justification for it so far.  I, like most people, am just saying "this is a great idea if it works, I hope it works, but it'll be tricky."

And it is posited as multiplayer in a massive and persistent universe.  As explained it is way more MMO than Guild Wars, for instance.

tl;dr fly away little troll.

Oh bugger off. Gryeyes nailed it, but even more so, like I said: They had enough trouble with walking. I'm 100% sure I'd rather them be putting Shanghai to work on the White Wolf MMOG than some nebulous fps game.

As others have pointed out recently, it is as well that you have the keys to f13, as your unconstructive shitting up of threads wouldn't always be tolerated elsewhere.  When i tried to discuss your last piece of blank trolling on ambulation you just ignored it so you could try again now.

Edit: I read that again and it's not even close to grammatical.  You used to be a great fucking poster, too.

[schild]

Surely you mean "grammatically correct." You can't have something just be grammatical. It's either correct or incorrect. Thanks for the compliment though, I never considered myself a great poster.

My unconstructive shitting up of threads is tolerated in lots of places. I can't imagine the blind faith standard you wave so highly would be tolerated for most other companies either. But whatever, CCP instills confidence in those who think they're playing a game rather than playing a community. I don't know how it works, but good for them; they ended up with way more accounts than they could ever imagine.

By the way, the only place we differ is with this:

"this is a great idea if it works, I hope it works, but it'll be tricky."

And I'm saying it's a great idea and it won't work, so prove me wrong, CCP. I dare you.

You're like the guys who think Bioware Austin is Bioware Edmonton.

Also, trolling implies a nebulous amount of subterfuge to actually be trolling. I'm OPENLY antagonistic toward their terrible design, GUI, and ability to actually craft a meaningful game. There's nothing trolly about it, except the fact you think I'm insulting YOU.

Edit: Found your ambulation post, didn't even see it before:

Schild, the ambulation was due out about 7 or 8 months ago.  It looks to me like they worked out the potential for this new approach and decided not to announce until they'd done feasability work.  I very much doubt if they reckon they've wasted a penny, as a result.

That is complete and utter bollocks and something only a fanboy would say. They're having CCP Shanghai (whatever ) make this particular game. That says about a million things, none of which instill any sort of hope for this project to be fun, let alone playable or released (ever). I'm very much convinced the ambulation thing was scratched because:

1. It was stupid.
2. It was a waste of money.
3. It didn't add a damned thing to the game.

[Endie]

Now you explain it in terms superior to - and very different in meaning from - that of the person who you claimed had "nailed it" We're probably not even that far away from each other on optimism re the outcome.  But I think it is important somebody out there tries.

I think that Shanghai are making this game because CCP crashed and burned on their attempt to penetrate the Chinese market and so don't have the use for them they thought they would; because they don't have spare development capacity in their Iceland or US teams (the latter of which post-dates the beginning of development, anyway); and because they think it is cheap.  I'm just looking at it with a project management hat on.

I look at ambulation as fairly "meh" and if i was scheduling their work I'd rob it of resources.  I don't think they've done that.  They certainly claim not to have done so.  But I can think of plenty of reasons to delay it, and my own supposition is that the same engine is being used in ambulation, this shooter and the putative White Wolf game, and that the resulting demands upon the design are greater than they thought as a result.

Re your thread-shitting: sure, some boards would tolerate it.  Others wouldn't.  My point was only that it's self-indulgent of someone who can do a shitload better.  And grammatical sentences are those which observe the rules of grammar.  It's a common enough usage vOv.

That's not a full answer to a big reply, sorry, but I have to go eat chilli.

[gryeyes]

Please stop with the "this is the end of the universe liquidate your ISK while you still have time" blurf.  You've offered no justification for it so far.  I, like most people, am just saying "this is a great idea if it works, I hope it works, but it'll be tricky."

Its not screaming that the sky is falling by pointing out the obvious and extreme problems with the limited information we so far have.

The inherent technical limitations with a consoles ability to interact with EVE (Most of the planet would be excluded with XBOX for example), the fact the ENTIRE fucking EVE/CCP fanbase is PC centric and will be exlcuded and that none of the design highlights will broaden its console popularity, in fact they assure a niche console product. Seems more than enough justification for something beyond cries of "Good fer dem!" And "Its a good idea if it works hurr hurr". Its you who have failed to support why in any fucking way beyond "Halo sells good, CCP would be fools to pass this up!" this is a smart idea.

Good for them! They have posited a concept that excludes their established fan base for a platform extremely ill suited for the intended game. Those innovative geniuses!

[schild]

And grammatical sentences are those which observe the rules of grammar.

Grammatically correct sentences do, sure, and mine almost nearly always are - as were the ones in the post previous.

But like I said:

You're running on faith, which strikes me as naive and is indicated by the fact that you were only "meh" with the ambulation. I'm not even playing the game and I know how intensely stupid that was to work on (even with spare cycles) instead of say, rejigging the entire GUI ten times over.

Note: Every single board I've ever been on tolerates my thread shitting. Why? Because I'm at least open and up front with it and I make no attempt to tangle things up in a mess of nonsense. In fact, I'd like to think of my thread shitting as even more indicative of the state of something simply because, well, I'm more informed than... what? Maybe 99% of the gamers out there? 99.9%? Being informed is my job and I threadshit with a bat labeled Truth & Justice.

Of course, I could've just responded and said "This means nothing from someone who willingly posts at an SA sub-board and actively maintains a membership with one." But that's too easy, even if it's correct and too the point.

So, out of curiosity, do you have your expectations set low enough so that when this inevitably turns out to be a terrible game you won't be let down? Just wondering.

Edit: Oh, right, more importantly - this:

But I think it is important somebody out there tries.

I agree. But more than that, I like it when companies stick with what they know. I'd rather CCP move into another setting and try to implement all they've learned in making Eve rather than jumping into a different genre and screwing up old ideas in completely new ways. For example, I don't mind SOE making EQ Next. Yea, it's boring, but hey, at least they "get EQ." Theoretically, at least.

Honestly, I don't think we'll see a meaningful persistent online FPS from anyone that isn't from Epic or Valve (though, I don't know what Romero/Slipg8 is working on yet, maybe I'll find out at AGDC). I guess we'll see persistent MAG is, but even that's only 256v256 and I'm not sure it's consistent. Mostly though, it ain't gonna be CCP and I think they're chasing a dream instead of trying to create a reality.

[Endie]

Good for them! They have posited a concept that excludes their established fan base for a platform extremely ill suited for the intended game. Those innovative geniuses!

They already have their existing fanbase.  The way to make a growth star instead of a cash cow is to appeal to a new market.  Yes, they'd be dumb to alienate their existing market to do so, but so far the only evidence of that is contained in shrill doomcasting from forum posters.  It might happen, but there is no evidence.

Schild, posting on SA and an SA-related board doesn't render one incapable of holding reasoned and informed opinions, nor does it prevent one being capable of articulating them.  So that burn really doesn't hold up, any more than the reverse does.  Yes, those communities are capabale of equal parochialism to yours and say the same of f13 on occasion.  They are just as wrong as you are.  I post in a few other places too.  Perhaps i should submit a list to you so that you can make sweeping generalisations about their posting quality at the same time?

So, out of curiosity, do you have your expectations set low enough so that when this inevitably turns out to be a terrible game you won't be let down? Just wondering.

I am the least likely person to be let down here by Dust not shipping, I imagine.  I am an FPS weakling and get motion sickness if I play most (not all, strangely) FPSes for protracted periods.  I have a huge number of skill points invested in my characters in Eve and can affect the gameworld more now than I could if I had to interact with Dust players to achieve the same goals.  My disappointment will be detached and on two layers: one is that I want somebody to move this moribund genre forwards somehow; the other is that I'd put up with the queasiness to be able to play a game that's not Eve with some folks from f13 (I've done some Xbox Live stuff but timezones are hugely different).

Regarding the final bit, CCP knew nothing about developing an internet spaceship game when they started.  It sucked at first then it developed into something some people liked.  If they want to expand their customer base, it has to be in another direction.  "Stick to the knitting" is fine advice but it's not always true, especially where niche companies are involved.  The odds are against success - as with almost all MMOs, I suppose - but all i am saying is that I really hope they succeed and I am glad they are trying.  If they cancel in a year I'll not be surprised, but i will be disappointed that I have to wait even longer for someone else to try.

[schild]

Regarding the final bit, CCP knew nothing about developing an internet spaceship game when they started.

Correct, they didn't - and it succeeded in SPITE of itself. And to date, it's still a game where the drama created by the players is still better than anything that has ever actually happened in game as a result of CCPs actions.

Lightning ain't gonna strike twice, especially not with an FPS where gameplay matters 1,000x more.

Actually, I'd say, for breaking even, the odds aren't against success anymore with a properly funded and marketed MMOG. Of course, breaking even isn't considered a "success" by normal market standards, but that's really a discussion for a different time.

This is about CCP, and like I said, they're dreaming again. I wish they weren't.

Edit: Clarity.

[Endie]

I don't think there's much that we disagree on, here.

[gryeyes]

They already have their existing fanbase.  The way to make a growth star instead of a cash cow is to appeal to a new market.  Yes, they'd be dumb to alienate their existing market to do so, but so far the only evidence of that is contained in shrill doomcasting from forum posters.  It might happen, but there is no evidence.

Are you fucking high? Console exclusivity is not fucking evidence alienating their existing fanbase? They seem to feel alienated by my casual observation. Not releasing this game as a PC centric title IS alienating their existing market...period. The only people who give a fuck about interacting with EVE are the people who play the fucking game. The only people who have the vaguest notion of what EVE/CCP is are PC centric gamers. Creating a console based RTS/MMO/FPS hybrid is likewise moronic as an explanation of "branching out". You couldn't ask for a more inherently niche console FPS, meaningful interaction (dependence) with a MMO you have never heard of is not really a bonus for those looking to play a console FPS. Interaction with console fucks who dont pay a monthly subscription likewise is pretty unappealing to EVE players.


Despite what you seem to think, one does not need to appeal to console users to appeal to a new demographic. EVE's niche player base has fucking nothing to do with it being a PC based game. Every "feature" in DUST is a hindrance to appealing to a broader market, the only people who perceive the stated design goals as positives are those already involved in EVE. It offers fucking NOTHING to generic FPS console gamer #114. Innovation is dandy but the only way this is even remotely possible involves massive concessions being made for the platform. Playing to a platforms weaknesses combined with drug induced levels of innovation is not a recipe for success. Its not trolling to notice the koolaid is brown and tastes like shit.

[Endie]

I assume that most software houses, when they decide to develop a new game, do not think "lordy me we can't develop that for the PS3!  Our Wii users will have their noses put right out of joint!"

[schild]

I assume that most software houses, when they decide to develop a new game, do not think "lordy me we can't develop that for the PS3!  Our Wii users will have their noses put right out of joint!"

I'm sure Gryeyes won't even realize it, but that's a wicked strawman you just put down bedding for.