Guild Wars 2

[Setanta]

GW2 has to be at the top of my list for games to buy. Factions was a hell of a lot of fun and I bought a few extra character slots as levelling is a joke... more a "hey, this is how you play the game" than "lets keep you playing by grinding your balls against a rust cheese grater" process. the fact that Blizzard sat up and took notice, implementing the PvP features of GW1 (badly) says it all. If only more MMO developers paid attention to GW and not WoW, there might actually be better MMOs

[Nebu]

Factions was a hell of a lot of fun and I bought a few extra character slots as levelling is a joke... more a "hey, this is how you play the game" than "lets keep you playing by grinding your balls against a rust cheese grater" process.

I hated factions and almost gave up on GW entirely because of it.  Nightfall really saved the title for me. 

[tazelbain]

I like GW, but after Arena.net dropped their "successful" game like it was radioactive.  I am worried about their commitment to their games.

[Ingmar]

I like GW, but after Arena.net dropped their "successful" game like it was radioactive.  I am worried about their commitment to their games.

Huh? GW has had 3 full campaigns and an expansion, and patches regularly for balance etc. How has it been dropped?

[tazelbain]

And its been over 2 years since the last one.  We would have at least a campaigns and 2 more expansions if they hadn't put this game on the shelf.

[BitWarrior]

And its been over 2 years since the last one.  We would have at least a campaigns and 2 more expansions if they hadn't put this game on the shelf.

I really dislike how Blizzard stopped making expansions for Warcraft 3 after World of Warcraft came out.

[Ingmar]

Huh, I had it in my head that GW was older than WoW, but apparently not? What happened to me in the mid-2000s, I wonder?

I'd guess that they are really feeling the limitations of the GW1 engine (it still looks pretty, but it has not aged nearly as gracefully as some others), hence the desire to move to a sequel starting earlier than for most MMOs.

[pxib]

The original Guild Wars expansion paradigm was a dangerous combinatorial nightmare. New classes with new skills and systems, new skills for all of the old classes, new armor and weapon enhancements. Everything had to interact with everything else in order to keep all the classes worthwhile. Keeping all those plates spinning was just going to get harder every time they did it.

The more stable framework GW2 will be a lot less trouble to maintain.

[Lantyssa]

And its been over 2 years since the last one.  We would have at least a campaigns and 2 more expansions if they hadn't put this game on the shelf.

They've been quite open that they are putting their major efforts into GW2.  They still do regular, if small, updates. 

[UnSub]

We're entering into the "how long should a MMO live?" territory. Personally I'd rather a game go out with some sort of dignity than limp to an unglamorous end.

GW still brings in okay revenue levels considering it hasn't released any new boxes for 2 years. 

[DLRiley]

GW the only reason why  should be used in the context of an mmo. But dignity and mmo shouldn't be used in the same sentence...(unless your talking about  Wars)

[Hoax]

So is the tag line for GW2:
"Now much more like WoW in every way"?

Admittedly I've always preferred the art style of GW to almost all fantasy games and adding guns helps that but are there any shots out yet with the ui and have they said what they are doing with the GW1 skill system yet?  Because just watching that races promo vid made me cringe at someone making another pathetic WoW clone.

[Lantyssa]

They are allowing GW achievements to carry over as small bonuses and a lot of people still play.  Keeping it running hurts no one, and shutting it down would piss-off their fan base for GW2.  What would possibly make them think doing so would be a good idea?

[Furiously]

Someone in accounting who says, we can sell more boxes if we shut the other one down.

[Velorath]

I feel like I'm missing some sort of explanation as to why Furiously and eldaec have almost the exact same avatar and are only 1 post apart in post counts.  Like one of them is a chameleon or something.

[NiX]

If you mean Hoax, it's Hunter S. Thompson and around here, where we use Bat Country for a guild name, it's not all that out there.

[Hoax]

If you mean Hoax, it's Hunter S. Thompson and around here, where we use Bat Country for a guild name, it's not all that out there.

Since my postcount is clearly much larger and manly I'm guessing eldaec also is using some variation of the Goonswarm bee as his avatar.  That means they both play Eve, I would guess.  If he is talking about me then yeah, Gonzo Journalism and whatnot, have you not noticed the flavor text for the various boards?

[Velorath]

If you mean Hoax, it's Hunter S. Thompson and around here, where we use Bat Country for a guild name, it's not all that out there.

No, I meant eldeac.  I was unaware that there was a "Goonswarm bee", but I guess that explains it.

[Fordel]

The Goonswarm Bee's are like the best part!

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/6899/beepostervi4.jpg


 

[Zzulo]

http://www.arena.net/blog/guild-

New info in this design manifesto released today as they prepare to fuel the hypemachine. 2 in-game pictures provided in the link as well. Elementalist as a class revealed. They obviously intend to reveal the other classes in this silhouette picture soon as well as they step up the information release.

This week we’re celebrating the 5th anniversary of the release of Guild Wars. Coincidentally, this year also marks the 10th anniversary of the founding of our company. We founded this company because we wanted to shake up a risk-averse industry, and show that game companies don’t have to just keep making the same games over and over again to be successful. We believe that gamers want to try new things, new experiences, and that they’ll reward the companies who can bring them something new.wars-2-design-manifesto
So five years ago we released Guild Wars, which was really a new thing. It was an RPG, but it also had elements of a strategy game; unlike most RPGs it was inspired more by M:tG than D&D; it was an online world with no monthly fees. We called it a CORPG but the ‘net raged with debates about whether or not it was an MMORPG. However you categorized it didn’t matter; it was a fun, new, different experience. We thought we could sell a million copies, and we ended up selling over 6 million.

We’re not going to rest on our laurels now. We started this company to innovate and bring players new experiences. Guild Wars 2 is the perfect game for Guild Wars players, but it’s not just the same game repeated again. We took this opportunity to question everything, and we have some exciting answers for you today.

The first thing you should know about Guild Wars 2 is that, this time around, there’s no question that it’s an MMORPG. It’s an enormous, persistent, living, social world, filled with a wide variety of combat and non-combat activities. There’s so much depth here that you’re never going to run out of new things to discover.

So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee.


Shouldn’t great MMORPGs be great RPGs too?

It sometimes feels like our industry has thrown the baby out with the bathwater. When you play an RPG, you want to experience a compelling and memorable storyline. You want your choices to matter. You want your actions to leave their mark on the world. Let’s start demanding those things of MMOs too.

The original Guild Wars was known for the level of storytelling it brought to online RPGs, so with GW2 we obviously wanted to take it to the next level. In GW you experience the story of the world, but the story in GW2 is the personal story of your character as well. You fill out a biography at character creation time that defines your background and your place within the world, and that starts you on your path. Then the choices you make will take the story in different directions. Each time you play through the game, you can experience a different storyline.

Some games mostly tell story through quest text. But we’ve all clicked so many exclamation points and accepted so many quests in our lives that we’re pretty immune to quest text at this point. GW2 tells story by allowing the player to befriend and adventure with key characters, by presenting him with moral dilemmas that will impact the lives of the people around him, and by having him live through world-changing events and all the key moments of the storyline.

In addition to great storyline and important player choices, another hallmark of great RPGs is that they create a world that feels real and alive. Let’s say a village is being terrorized by bandits. You don’t want to find out about that because there’s a villager standing there motionless with an exclamation mark over his head who says when you click on him, “Help, we’re being terrorized by bandits.” You want to find out like you would in GW2: because the bandits are attacking, chasing villagers through the streets, slaying them and setting their houses on fire. You can stand up for the villagers, or you can watch their village burn to the ground and then deal with the consequences. We’ve worked hard to create a living, dynamic world for you, where there’s always something new to do.
It’s time to make MMORPGs more social

MMOs are social games. So why do they sometimes seem to work so hard to punish you for playing with other players? If I’m out hunting and another player walks by, shouldn’t I welcome his help, rather than worrying that he’s going to steal my kills or consume all the mobs I wanted to kill? Or if I want to play with someone, shouldn’t we naturally have the same goals and objectives, rather than discovering that we’re in the same area but working on a different set of quests?

We think of GW2 as the first MMO that actually has a cooperative PvE experience. When I’m out hunting and suddenly there’s a huge explosion over the next hill – the ground is shaking and smoke is pouring into the sky – I’m going to want to investigate, and most other players in the area will too. Or if the sky darkens on a sunny day, and I look up and see a dragon circling overhead preparing to attack, I know I’d better fight or flee, and everyone around me knows that too.

With traditional MMOs you can choose to solo or you can find a good guild or party to play with. With GW2 there’s a third option too: you can just naturally play with all the people around you. I personally spend a big chunk of my time in traditional MMOs soloing, but when I play GW2 I always find myself naturally working with everyone around me to accomplish world objectives, and before long we find ourselves saying, “Hey, there’s a bunch of us here; let’s see if we can take down the swamp boss together,” without ever having bothered to form a party.

With GW2 there’s a third option too: you can just naturally play with all the people around you
Of course GW2 has great support for parties, but they just don’t feel as necessary as they do in other MMOs, because your interests are always aligned with all other nearby players anyway. When someone kills a monster, not just that player’s party but everyone who was seriously involved in the fight gets 100% of the XP and loot for the kill. When an event is happening in the world – when the bandits are terrorizing a village – everyone in the area has the same motivation, and when the event ends, everyone gets rewarded.

We even redesigned the competitive part of the game to be friendly like this. Now worlds can compete against each other, through the mists that separate them, for scarce resources that benefit an entire world. Joining this PvP competition is completely optional, just like it was in the original GW, but if you do compete you’re now going to find that your world welcomes you with open arms. You don’t have to join a party to join the fight. All you have to do is get out there and start helping. Everyone has the same objective, and if your world can get 501 people working for the same goal, that’s only going to be more helpful than 500 people.
Rethinking combat

Finally, since combat is such a core part of the gameplay of any MMO, we’ve put a lot of emphasis into rethinking combat. So much of traditional MMO combat is rote and repetitive. You execute the same strategy over and over again, just augmented over time with better and better gear. After a while it starts to feel like you’re playing a spreadsheet. Combat needs to be about making creative choices, and it needs to feel immediate, active, and visceralCombat needs to be about making creative choices, and it needs to feel immediate, active, and visceral. So we’ve put a huge focus on strengthening our combat, giving the player limitless choices, and providing the thrill and joy of being in combat.

The original GW featured a CCG-like skill system that allowed each player to discover unique combos and new strategies. Theoretically every Elementalist in the game could approach combat with a different strategy. In fact players found thousands of interesting strategies over the years, most of which our designers never anticipated, which is always the sign of a flexible system.

GW2 shares this flexible skill system. The big difference is that now skills are much more visual in explaining what they do. The process of actually discovering combos, or understanding them when they’re used against you, is a lot more clear, because you can visually see how skills combo with each other. An Elementalist can cast Fire Wall next to an opponent, and then switch to Water attunement, which freezes all enemies around him. Using the concussive force of Water Trident, he can slam his frozen enemy into the Fire Wall, leaving him to roast in the flames.

GW2 adds even more possibilities for distinguishing yourself in combat. Now you can choose a race, and each race comes with unique combat abilities, such as the Norn’s ability to transform himself into a bear. And now you can build up and select traits for your character which give you new intrinsic abilities, such as the Elementalist’s Stone Boots trait, which keeps his feet firmly planted on the ground even when an attack or skill effect would normally toss him through the air.

And like the original GW, in GW2 the creativity doesn’t end with your own character. When you play with others, you’ll find that your abilities can complement theirs, and that you can discover new skill combos and strategies between professions. So if you’re playing an Elementalist, try casting a fire wall, and then see what happens when your friends shoot projectiles through it.

Then we add environmental weapons to mix up combat even more. In the original GW you’d sometimes find a catapult or trebuchet that you could take over and fire at enemies. That’s one type of environmental weapon, and in GW2 we have dozens more. If a Stone Elemental throws a boulder at you, pick it up and throw it back. Or as an Elementalist, use that boulder to create a meteor storm. If you’re fighting an Oakheart with an axe and you manage to hack off a branch, pick up the branch and try using it as a weapon. If you meet a beekeeper outside town, buy a jar of bees from him and see what happens when you lob it at nearby enemies. If you come across a stash of powder kegs, don’t just blow them up in place, but try moving them to where they can do the most damage. If a centaur wheels a siege machine up to the outskirts of a village, don’t just destroy it; take it over and use it to turn the tide of battle.

And while you’re discovering new opportunities, new weapons, new combos, and new strategies, you’re surrounded by the pure visceral joy of combat. Smash a monster with a plank and watch him fly through the air. Avoid the Oakheart’s roots as they creep out of the ground looking to entangle you. Launch yourself on a sweeping attack that takes you behind your enemy. Smash open the garrison gate and begin your assault. Dodge out of the way before the Drake Broodmother unleashes her fire attack.

It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to momentOur games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.

Guild Wars 2 is a deep and rich game, and we have so much more to tell you. What I covered here is just the tip of the iceberg. So in the coming days we’ll be releasing a series of in-depth articles on different aspects of the game. The first one is written by our lead designer, Eric Flannum, and will tell you all about our combat systems.

This is an exciting time for ArenaNet. We’re a company of passionate gamers with one mission: to make Guild Wars 2 the best MMORPG ever created. We are a 150+ person development team and we’re betting our company on Guild Wars 2. If this sounds like the kind of game you’ve been waiting for, join us on Facebook and Twitter, and help us get the word out to other gamers as well. As you’re reading this, we’re playing the game constantly, tweaking it and polishing it, adding more content, and getting it ready for you. Over the next few months we’ll be revealing more and more about the game, and we’ll be working with our community every step of the way. Because in the end, this isn’t just our game – we want it to be yours as well – and we can’t wait to play it with you.

[Furiously]

This jar of bees has me intreged.

[Draegan]

We'll see.  But maybe that's a fancy way of saying you can jump in this game.

[Lantyssa]

I'll be in my barracks.

[Zzulo]

They released another image as thanks to the community for digg-ing them.

Elementalist casting "Static Field" spell:

[Mosesandstick]

Totally stoked. GW was the only MMORPG that held my interest for a while post-WoW.

[pxib]

When someone kills a monster, not just that player’s party but everyone who was seriously involved in the fight gets 100% of the XP and loot for the kill. When an event is happening in the world – when the bandits are terrorizing a village – everyone in the area has the same motivation, and when the event ends, everyone gets rewarded.

 

[Ingmar]

Why does that get a face of disapproval!

[Hawkbit]

Yeah, they'll have to seriously fuck it up for this to not be a day 1 purchase from me.

[pxib]

Why does that get a face of disapproval!

It's been promised for a long time, by many different games. The shitty group mechanics we have today aren't just old bad habits... they are the bitter pill result of a stream of failures of "everybody who participates is rewarded" systems. The press release is a great statement of purpose, and great advertising, but it will lead to a lot of disappointment if it isn't taken with a few heavy grains of salt. These are all old promises, and they haven't failed in the past for lack of effort, but rather because they collide poorly with player psychology. I don't see that players have changed much since the last few times, other than that there are more of them.

If I take these promises as optimistically as possible, it sounds like they're making an MMO without an endgame: all journey, no destination. You buy the game once, level up a charcter through your own "unique" storyline, and then retire having gotten your money's worth. There's no point rushing it because there's no prize at the end except repetitive PvP. ArenaNet gets away with this because nobody's paying a monthly fee, so they can't complain if there's nothing worth paying one for. You are expected to play for the sake of playing, not for the sake of winning.

That would be awesome, and I'm buying the game regardless because ArenaNet's done quality work, and I loved Guild Wars. I just hope they don't get too many people expecting the Robot Jesus because how great a game is depends on how people feel playing it. Crowds of disappointed players are poison.

EDIT: Forgot a "don't".

[Ingmar]

Gotcha. I read the face as meaning you didn't like the idea of rewarding everyone who jumps in.

[Severian]

I thought it got the face of disapproval because the system as stated rewards, fully, serial tap-and-run in fights others are engaged in. 100% EXP for one arrow, I'm in! And out and on to the next, good luck pal!

[Shatter]

I thought it got the face of disapproval because the system as stated rewards, fully, serial tap-and-run in fights others are engaged in. 100% EXP for one arrow, I'm in! And out and on to the next, good luck pal!

Hey that 1 arrow maens I participated!

[Cadaverine]

Sounds nifty.  Shame the final product won't have any of that stuff, or will have a watered down version if it does.

[Lantyssa]

I misread.  Nevermind my comment, which didn't make sense.

[Koyasha]

Well it does say 'seriously involved' which probably means minimum amount of damage, or healed someone who did the minimum amount of damage, by a minimum amount.

The 'shoot one arrow and get full exp' is the main problem that needs to be avoided though, yeah.  The trick is to make it so that gaming the system is too difficult to be worthwhile.  Any such system will be able to be gamed in some way, but by making such a thing too difficult/annoying to be worthwhile, it can be effectively prevented.

I can't remember what game it was, but I remember somewhere playing a healer and not caring whether my heals were effective at keeping my side alive - only that I landed a heal on as many people as possible, because it would increase my odds of getting rewards, or something like that.  I don't recall the details, but I distinctly recall being annoyed at having to approach with that attitude in order to maximize rewards.