Guild Wars 2

[Malakili]

Oddly enough, I never really played a healer in GW so I can't speak to that except the party interface was a bit crappy if I remember right.

From the new post/article it appears you won't be playing one in GW2 either.

http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/healing-death/

We're making players more self sufficient, but are also providing appealing ways for them to effortlessly work together to create a more inspired moment-to-moment experience. That is why Guild Wars 2 does not have a dedicated healing class.

I can't tell you how happy I am to hear this.  For those that love healing, or love the holy trinity, sincerely sorry (but it's not like you don't have enough holy trinity games already).  REALLY looking forward to this game now.

I always play a healer, and do like like them, but to be honest, another holy trinity game isn't exactly going to appeal to me in a sea of games that already do that.  If GW2 comes up with another system that makes groups work well, but can do away with the trinity, I'm at least interested.   Hopefully it works out better than Champions Online's attempt to do away with the trinity where group gameplay is just a clusterfuck.

[tazelbain]

I don't mind losing healers, but I concerned about its affect on diversity.  It seems like a path toward hegemony where everyone is slight variation of the same DPS class.

[DLRiley]

Now after reading the article... IWAY LIVES!!!

Combat is about different approaches to deal with the problem of sending someone from full health to zero, adding enough variation in order to ensure you don't always know the correct response to a given approach because the means to the end are significantly different. And having the ability to proactively and or re-actively react to the means to take you down. Why do some people take sniper rifles verses assault rifles? Why automatic as a side arm instead of a semi automatic? Why pick ryu as oppose to chun-li? Guild Wars taking this approach to mmo's is fucking win, someone is listening to my 2 years old vent conversations, fuck. 

[caladein]

I have no great attachment to making-the-bars-go-up as a playstyle, but do like that it allows for more of an overview of the battle versus being focused on your immediate skirmish.  Guild Wars (1) already provides for that on the more offensive end with CC/Debuffs/DoTs, so I'm not too concerned about being completely left out.

[DLRiley]

Well to draw some contrast
Traditional mmo combat at its highest level comes down to:
* target healer
* if healer is dead
   * target rest of team, TANKS LAST SCRUBS
*else
   * keep targeting healer
Guild Wars 1 combat played out like:
*Target support preventing healer from dieing quick death
*Now target healer
*Ok back to targeting support
*Now target warrior overextending
*Now target healer
*Ok back to support

In guild wars teams that trained banged the healer usually lost in quick order, the focus being target switching in order to prevent the healer from keeping up with your dps. I speculate that guild wars two is probably going to see a lot of range stand offs broken by coordinated melee pushes. I can see 8 warrior team devastating a bunch of scrub teams. The nerf iway threads will block out the sun.

[Lantyssa]

I want to have kittens with ArenaNet's employees.  All of them.

I also like how they focus on Support rather than Healer.  I loved my Dark Defender in CoH so much.

 

[Draegan]

As long as they don't water down every class to make up for no dedicated healer this might be pretty cool.

[Ingmar]

I wonder if 'dedicated healer' will still exist in the NPC companion/hero types?

[DayDream]

I'll be curious what the response is to the few healing spells in game.  I can see it being real easy to have them mandatory for the characters that they're available to.  Of course, the most interesting possibility is that they're not, and the healing skills actually have to fight for a spot in the support section of those classes skills.

Either way, Guild Wars 2 looks hotter and hotter.  Hope they deliver.

[Draegan]

The heal spells are just spread among the class it looks like.  An elementalist with a Healing Rain ability that's a targeted AOE.

[Malakili]

The heal spells are just spread among the class it looks like.  An elementalist with a Healing Rain ability that's a targeted AOE.

If thats all I slightly worry about it simply because I don't trust most people to stop and cast their heal spell when its needed because it would hurt their precious damage meters.

[Lantyssa]

I wonder if 'dedicated healer' will still exist in the NPC companion/hero types?

They did away with companions except for a few pet classes.  They mentioned this in one of the early blogs.  Since I liked collecting and outfitting heroes, I was a bit bummed by it.

[Ingmar]

Oh, that sucks. Oh well.

[HaemishM]

Why should we debuff you, take away experience, or make you run around for five minutes as a ghost instead of letting you actually play the game? We couldn't think of a reason. Well, we did actually think of a reason--it just wasn't a good one. Death penalties make death in-game a more tense experience. It just isn't fun. We want to get you back into the action (fun) as quickly as possible. Defeat is the penalty; we don't have to penalize you a second time.

Someone's been reading my rants for the last 8 years. 

[Fordel]

I want to believe!

[DLRiley]

someone has been having me on tape recorder for 3 years, fuck this i should sue their ass while playing this godwin game.

[Malakili]

Why should we debuff you, take away experience, or make you run around for five minutes as a ghost instead of letting you actually play the game? We couldn't think of a reason. Well, we did actually think of a reason--it just wasn't a good one. Death penalties make death in-game a more tense experience. It just isn't fun. We want to get you back into the action (fun) as quickly as possible. Defeat is the penalty; we don't have to penalize you a second time.

Someone's been reading my rants for the last 8 years. 

That sounds good on paper, but we'll see if zerging like in Champions Online or Star Trek Online becomes problematic.  Its pretty silly to be able to beat any encounter in the game by just respawning and bum rushing and while "running back" might not be fun, either is a game in which all the group play devolves into DPS until you die, respawn, and dps more.

[DLRiley]

Except it takes you longer to respawn, monsters recover any health lost after being 20 seconds out of combat. Though I prefer the old death penalty when you get a moral debuff every time you died. Basically if you died enough times you can have your health reduced to 40% of your maximum health and mana and could only be worked off by getting xp.

[Trippy]

Why should we debuff you, take away experience, or make you run around for five minutes as a ghost instead of letting you actually play the game? We couldn't think of a reason. Well, we did actually think of a reason--it just wasn't a good one. Death penalties make death in-game a more tense experience. It just isn't fun. We want to get you back into the action (fun) as quickly as possible. Defeat is the penalty; we don't have to penalize you a second time.

Someone's been reading my rants for the last 8 years. 

That sounds good on paper, but we'll see if zerging like in Champions Online or Star Trek Online becomes problematic.  Its pretty silly to be able to beat any encounter in the game by just respawning and bum rushing and while "running back" might not be fun, either is a game in which all the group play devolves into DPS until you die, respawn, and dps more.

People do that even with death penalties (a la EQ back in the old days ).

[Malakili]

Why should we debuff you, take away experience, or make you run around for five minutes as a ghost instead of letting you actually play the game? We couldn't think of a reason. Well, we did actually think of a reason--it just wasn't a good one. Death penalties make death in-game a more tense experience. It just isn't fun. We want to get you back into the action (fun) as quickly as possible. Defeat is the penalty; we don't have to penalize you a second time.

Someone's been reading my rants for the last 8 years. 

That sounds good on paper, but we'll see if zerging like in Champions Online or Star Trek Online becomes problematic.  Its pretty silly to be able to beat any encounter in the game by just respawning and bum rushing and while "running back" might not be fun, either is a game in which all the group play devolves into DPS until you die, respawn, and dps more.

People do that even with death penalties (a la EQ back in the old days ).

Fair enough.  Regardless of the death penalty though, I hope they find a way to stop zerging to victory.

[DLRiley]

Cause aggro and pull to victory is so much more thrilling. 

[Lantyssa]

Fair enough.  Regardless of the death penalty though, I hope they find a way to stop zerging to victory.

If waypoints are far enough away there can't be much of a zerg.

[Kail]

If waypoints are far enough away there can't be much of a zerg.

That's true, I guess, but I don't see much difference between running back to where you died as a ghost versus running back as a live character.  Actually, the differences I think of off the top of my head would suggest that running back as a ghost would be easier than doing it alive.

[Lantyssa]

You don't suffer a 75% penalty for choosing not to run back.

[kildorn]

Zerging requires a target near a spawn point that can be kept in combat.

It doesn't really work in most modern MMOs, because things regen FAST out of combat to prevent it. The main up side I've seen to minimal/non existent death penalties is that it encourages people to try challenging content more. When you're not going to lose anything but the time spent playing the encounter, it's a lot easier to go "enh, I'll try this without the perfect setup"

[Ratman_tf]

Fair enough.  Regardless of the death penalty though, I hope they find a way to stop zerging to victory.

If waypoints are far enough away there can't be much of a zerg.

THAT'S 15 SECONDS I COULD BE PLAYING! 

[Fordel]

Update: http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/ranger/


Standard Issue Bow + Pet class, with added bonus of tiny bird minions to peck your enemies eyes out!

[caladein]

It's MMOrdecai!

[Sjofn]

I wonder if 'dedicated healer' will still exist in the NPC companion/hero types?

They did away with companions except for a few pet classes.  They mentioned this in one of the early blogs.  Since I liked collecting and outfitting heroes, I was a bit bummed by it.

Oh damn, she said a week later, that sucks.

Still, the game is pretty and I hope it's fun. 

[Lantyssa]

Update: http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/ranger/

[Cadaverine]

sharks.

 

I'd love to see a shark flopping along after some ranger as they run through town.

[DLRiley]

Update: http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/ranger/


Standard Issue Bow + Pet class, with added bonus of tiny bird minions to peck your enemies eyes out!

Well that was mostly disappointing.

And i was wrong. god damn it guild wars.

[Mosesandstick]

I can't wait till I kill someone with the flying chicken attack.

[HaemishM]

I want to shoot someone with a bow, then throw a shark at them! 

[Mrbloodworth]

That ranger looks like hotness. I may have to pick this up after all, is there a release date yet?