EQ 'Next'

[Scold]

The interesting thing to me is that MMOs are a rich and varied enough bunch these days that people constantly say things like "Man, if only MMOs would do _________", and almost always there are several MMOs that do, in fact, do _______ that the person's just never tried.

The implication there is that they want a game that not only does X but is also good overall.

I tried to play Tera. Is the combat cool? I don't know, because I stopped after about 10 minutes, because of how bad the initial area / starting quests were and how bad the general chat was.

All that shit's in the eye of the beholder, though, and totally dependent on both individual pickiness and how bored one is with the genre as a whole. DDO totally scratches my itch for action combat, for example.

[Sjofn]

Obviously none of you ever played  a warden in LoTRO. This character used 3 basic moves which could be combined to do a ton of different finishing moves, like a shout,kick,shout giving you a move that taunted and added temporary defence.  I really liked this system as it played into my RSI quite nicely as I have limited movement left in my fingers other than index and forefinger however they screwed it up royally by making the "elite" skills be combinations that played like kick/punch or  punch/shout, thus tripling the number of keys you had to reach to be able to use the new moves. Still, until 50 or so the character was fun to play, though a lot of people didn't like it because you had to keep all the combos in memory.

I enjoyed the warden but yeah, having to memorize all the different combinations was a bit of a pain. It also makes it nigh impossible to pick up after having not played for any length of time, which I suspect MMOs would see as a bad thing (as it means the people who wander off between big content dumps or patches or whatever are going to be less likely to check out the new shit).

[tmp]

I tried to play Tera. Is the combat cool? I don't know, because I stopped after about 10 minutes, because of how bad the initial area / starting quests were and how bad the general chat was.

In ten minutes you get to do the first 2-3 opening quests which cover the most basic mechanics a fresh MMO player is about to experience: "speak to npc to get a quest", "go over there" and "kill X rats". If this somehow makes the game extremely bad and makes you put it down, I don't think there's a MMO that can win you over, save maybe for one that either says "screw new players and tutoring them, who needs them" or finds a way to directly upload these basics into new player's brains.

[Nebu]

Tera killed my interest with it's cutesy look and uninspired class design.  I always felt dirty playing that game, so I just quit.  A little too  for me.

[Paelos]

Tera killed my interest with it's cutesy look and uninspired class design.  I always felt dirty playing that game, so I just quit.  A little too  for me.

I agree, it's one of the few times I refused to play a game over it's aesthetic and "feel"

[Modern Angel]

I enjoyed the warden but yeah, having to memorize all the different combinations was a bit of a pain. It also makes it nigh impossible to pick up after having not played for any length of time, which I suspect MMOs would see as a bad thing (as it means the people who wander off between big content dumps or patches or whatever are going to be less likely to check out the new shit).

The warden (and Dwarf Fortress) taught me that I have amazing muscle memory. I can come back any time and drop right back in. It's weird.

[Margalis]

In ten minutes you get to do the first 2-3 opening quests which cover the most basic mechanics a fresh MMO player is about to experience: "speak to npc to get a quest", "go over there" and "kill X rats". If this somehow makes the game extremely bad and makes you put it down, I don't think there's a MMO that can win you over, save maybe for one that either says "screw new players and tutoring them, who needs them" or finds a way to directly upload these basics into new player's brains.

Even clicking on someone to interact with them was awful. My problem was not that there was an introductory part, my problem was that the introductory part was terrible and even people who like Tera don't often claim it has a lot to offer outside of the combat. It was incredibly uninspired and rote, not just on a big picture level (click on guy with mark over head to get quest) but in all the execution details.

Had I heard that the rest of the game is really great once you get outside of the intro I would have stuck with it, but everything I've heard is that the game is Generic MMO - The Game outside of combat.

[Ingmar]

Tera killed my interest with it's cutesy look and uninspired class design.  I always felt dirty playing that game, so I just quit.  A little too  for me.

I agree, it's one of the few times I refused to play a game over it's aesthetic and "feel"

Same, I'll never know what it plays like. I don't need the NSA thinking I'm into that.

[tmp]

Even clicking on someone to interact with them was awful. My problem was not that there was an introductory part, my problem was that the introductory part was terrible and even people who like Tera don't often claim it has a lot to offer outside of the combat. It was incredibly uninspired and rote, not just on a big picture level (click on guy with mark over head to get quest) but in all the execution details.

Pretty much what I said, then. How do you imagine the game is going to get the execution details of something as simple as clicking on stuff to interact with it ... that isn't simply clicking on stuff to interact with it, which is "incredibly uninspired and rote" and makes you quit within 10 minutes?

It honestly reads like a complaint on the level of "I quit playing the latest manshoot when right at the start it told me to press left mouse button to shoot stuff".

edit: and yeah, it is certainly pretty true Tera is a "generic MMO outside of the combat". The catch being, combat makes roughly 90% of the game so that one thing being different, welp.

[Kitsune]

Tera's opening is truly awful, yes, but its gameplay is hands-down the best of any MMOG right now.  For the first time in my recollection, I felt that a MMOG actually hinged on my skill as a player rather than what buttons and gear were on the character.

[tazelbain]

What sort of skill?

[Kitsune]

What sort of skill?

Timing, watching monsters for tells that they're about to attack (that don't involve big red circles on the ground), stringing some pretty situational attacks depending on the way the fight's going.  This is as a slayer, so I'm busy somersaulting all over the place with a two-handed sword while kicking things in the face and generally acting like a ferret on meth.  Ranged fighters are less interesting in my opinion, since they can feasibly just run around in circles and shoot/fireball their target.

[Trippy]

What sort of skill?

Basically you need to aim your attacks and conversely you can dodge attacks. There are exceptions (e.g. a few attacks will auto-track their target(s)) but overall the game is a real "twitch" MMORPG and timing, aiming and positioning are critical to doing well in the game.

[Ingmar]

Oh good, the old skill argument again, where only things that involve reflexes qualify.

[Trippy]

Knowledge is important too (e.g. learning the "tells" Kitsune mentioned above) but yes the game requires good reflexes to do well. If you don't like shooters and things like circle strafing (which you do a lot of in the game) make you tear your hair out you are not likely to enjoy Tera.

[Nebu]

Want a great combination of skill and knowledge?  Play World of Tanks.  Best I've seen yet.

[Rasix]

I really don't find driving around in tanks to be very appealing at all.  Like zero interest.  I think the only tank part of any game I've ever liked was in Saints Row 3.

[Numtini]

It is a great design though. Also skill in that context is knowledge of the game and gameplay, not being a 13 year old hopped up on Ritalin.

[Sjofn]

Puzzle Pirates = my skill-based game of choice

It's you and the puzzle, man. You and the puzzle.

[Paelos]

Puzzle Pirates = my skill-based game of choice

It's you and the puzzle, man. You and the puzzle.

I also like it. Just dont make me carpent. Please god no.

[Venkman]

Can someone hook me up with said art piece? Can't find it without stumbling upon SOE concept art. Just curious.

Otherwise, I'm with Haemish. I like discussing upcoming MMOs. I'll prejudge with the rest and enjoy doing so. However, I know full well I'm not the market, and that the market they inherit via forums is very not the market that anyone should target ever. Fickle perpetualy dissatisfied entitlement cases all over...

[Ingmar]

Read the thread? It's in here somewhere.

[Sjofn]

Puzzle Pirates = my skill-based game of choice

It's you and the puzzle, man. You and the puzzle.

I also like it. Just dont make me carpent. Please god no.

I usually get put on that because I am good at it and I don't loathe it, which makes me a ~special snowflake~. Ingmar will cut anyone who takes his bilging station.

[Paelos]

I love to sail. We could actually run a functional boat. 

[Numtini]

The YPP port to IOS was very disappointing.

[Venkman]

Read the thread? It's in here somewhere.

I have been People sounded like they were talking about some screenshot. All I've seen so far is the one Falc posted a few pages back from everquestnext.com. Is that it?

[Merusk]

yes

[tmp]

Want a great combination of skill and knowledge?  Play World of Tanks.  Best I've seen yet.

I've spent tons of time playing World of Tanks. And Puzzle Pirates.

Currently Tera wins over these two for me because there's (slightly) more variety to the things i can do in it. Plus, it offers the best dress up game

[Margalis]

Oh good, the old skill argument again, where only things that involve reflexes qualify.

This is a deliberate misreading. Complaining about "twitch" is just cane-waggling, there are few if any games where the skill component is composed solely of reflexes. (Maybe Guitar Hero for a track you've never played?) 3D fighting requires reflexes, recognition, spacing, planning, etc, and "reflexes" often rely more on ability to concentrate than reflex speed.

[Kageru]

Want a great combination of skill and knowledge?  Play World of Tanks.  Best I've seen yet.

I agree. There's a great deal of detail, tactical options and approaches and when you get beaten you generally know what you could do better. A lot of the other "skill" games come down to superior reflexes, build and ping.

[Falconeer]

Want a great combination of skill and knowledge?  Play World of Tanks.  Best I've seen yet.

Want a World of Tanks with little more skill?  Play MechWarrior Online. An FPS in Slow-Motion with plenty of tactical choices, definitely aimed at 30something and older.

[Kageru]

Not really, The ability to use cover and maneuver in WoT is far superior to Mechwarrior, which is mostly about better builds, pinpoint alpha and if that fails circle strafing.

[Falconeer]

I love World of Tanks. Really love it. And still, we disagree. It's cool.

[Threash]

I don't want to be a dumb tank, i want to be a person.

[Nebu]

I don't want to be a dumb tank, i want to be a person.

Are Elves people?