Fuuuuuuuck youuuuuuu

[kildorn]

For anybody that's died in a ground effect, boss mods usually scream at you that you're in a fucking ground effect. And yet, 90% of the time, that's the problem with raiders "not getting it."

Or patches that turn off projected textures by default for no good fucking reason <3 <3

[Sjofn]

Even if not for convenience, why wouldn't you use addons to fix UI frames and such. The default blizzard bards and unit frames are terribly designed, and have a ton of unnecessary artwork which clutters the screen. Honestly, if MMO devs made FPS games we'd still be using a Wolf3D style interface.

They don't bother me, and it doesn't feel cluttered to me. I play on a giant ass screen, though, it would probably feel more cluttered on a more tiny-screened resolution.

For anybody that's died in a ground effect, boss mods usually scream at you that you're in a fucking ground effect. And yet, 90% of the time, that's the problem with raiders "not getting it."

Things I don't die to: ground effects


EDIT: I don't 25 man raid very often, and when I do I'm a DPSer, not a tank. We don't do hard modes or anything like that. I don't need a boss mod to take chance out of the fights if I pay attention. Which I always do. Because I don't have a boss mod.

It has the added bonus of patches never fucking me up because half my add ons are broken and I can't function without them.

[proudft]

Don't forget not being able to load in Dalaran because by the time the game loads all the city textures, player textures, and all two dozen of your addons, the server decided you're not connected anymore and boots you.   

[Jayce]

It has the added bonus of patches never fucking me up because half my add ons are broken and I can't function without them.

This happened to me.  I had the whole suite of Led-something-or-other addons, configured and tuned to a fine pitch.  Then a patch came along and totally broke my UI and I had no idea where anything was or how to do much more than walk. 

Never again.  I like tweaky UI addons, but if they all go away I have to still be able to function.  I just don't want to spare the time to jack with them every patch.

[Ingmar]

For just that reason, the only addons I use anymore are informational only, except for Grid, and Quartz for my casters. I don't use a bar mod for any of my characters anymore (my shaman was the last one using one, but blizzard fixed the totem UI finally), don't reskin the UI, etc. It makes patch days much nicer. If I lose my windows for Recount, Omen, my various FuBar plugins (or FuBar itself), etc., it is annoying but it doesn't interfere with my ability to actually play.

[K9]

Oh, I do use recount. Any raidleader not running recount just to keep tabs on what people are doing is missing out.

[Paelos]

Things I don't die to: ground effects

Yeah if the tank starts dying to ground effects, pack up your shit and move out of that instance. It's not gonna happen.

Also, yes on recount as a RL tool. Holy shit do you learn a lot about who's facerolling in your raid.

[K9]

The death function in recount is the best thing ever.

[Fordel]

The only Mod I use is Omen, and that's like 95% just to see if Thorgrim's opening attack whiffed or not.

Oh, I also use a Druid specific one called Sqawk and Awe, to keep track of the Eclipse internal cool down.



The Blizzard default UI actually tells you when "BIG BOSS ABILITY" is about to happen on it's own these days, has for awhile.



Where I would need major modding is healing, the default raid frames don't display the information every well at all.

[Gobbeldygook]

When I tried to pug Naxx-10 some time before 3.2 on my resto shaman, a healer asked to be put in the same group as the tank so it would be easier to heal.  The other one agreed.  I should have bailed right then.

I used the built-in raid frames pre-wrath, but post-wrath, I use grid.  Even when tanking, it's pretty valuable to know when some miserable failure dies in the fire.

[Sjofn]

It has the added bonus of patches never fucking me up because half my add ons are broken and I can't function without them.

This happened to me.  I had the whole suite of Led-something-or-other addons, configured and tuned to a fine pitch.  Then a patch came along and totally broke my UI and I had no idea where anything was or how to do much more than walk. 

Never again.  I like tweaky UI addons, but if they all go away I have to still be able to function.  I just don't want to spare the time to jack with them every patch.

We have a couple of dudes in our guild that use an obscene number of add ons. Every patch, even the little ones, screw 'em up it seems like, because it might break one add on but it takes them hours to figure out which one is making it so they can't play at all, etc.

[K9]

Really the only people who I can't see having much benefit out of having a raid frame visible are Rogues and Warlocks. Everyone else has one or more abilities which you may need to apply to any member of the raid at given times during some or all fights. Being able to target people fast for these is only going to improve your raid's success over time.

[kildorn]

When I tried to pug Naxx-10 some time before 3.2 on my resto shaman, a healer asked to be put in the same group as the tank so it would be easier to heal.  The other one agreed.  I should have bailed right then.

I used the built-in raid frames pre-wrath, but post-wrath, I use grid.  Even when tanking, it's pretty valuable to know when some miserable failure dies in the fire.

The only thing that's fucked up to the "I cannot function well as a player" is my healframe at the moment (I'm patching it as I type, raid night!), healing outside your group without healing frames is going to be playing at 80% at best. The default healing frames are BETTER, but still lack so many functions of alarming and allowing for rapid one off spells.

That said, there are still isolated reasons to arrange groups, most have to do with ranges on group wide effects, or the like 3 spells that are still group wide instead of raid wide.

[lamaros]

Back then casters stacked int, rogues didn't care about tohit, and most tanks didn't even know proper rotations beyond stack sunder, then stack some more. Geddon's bomb was an immense threat, several raid bosses were nothing more than tank'n'spanks, and +fireresist was the preferred way to victory. Also lolwepskill.
 
Rose tinted glasses, they're awesome.

Yeah, everyone know the real hardcore were zerging strath for those leet +spirit postman drops, not that int shit!

On Topic: What Tale said.

[Selby]

I just got done with ToC & Uld-10.  Our guild has a good 7-8 people who are decently geared and play well.  We were breaking in new recruits tonight and almost every wipe was due to "standing in the fire" or "not DPSing the right adds when they need to be."  Towards the end I wanted to scream into /raid that those who could not bother to step out of the fire despite DBM & the default UI saying you were on fire needed to just leave (seriously, 9 wipes because a healer couldn't\wouldn't get out of the fire).  Such a waste of my time and money.  It still only takes one person who can't be bothered to pay attention to wipe the raid (ToC is really bad about this, one person dies in phase 1 and you might as well just give up).  It's almost like being back in Ony and MC again (whelps?  where did they come from?)

[Sheepherder]

Really the only people who I can't see having much benefit out of having a raid frame visible are Rogues and Warlocks. Everyone else has one or more abilities which you may need to apply to any member of the raid at given times during some or all fights.

This is not true.

Really, DBM/BigWigs isn't needed in most cases any more, and raid frames are not needed at all for many classes.  Damage/debuffs in raids are largely predictable and announced by the stock UI.  If you need your entire fucking screen to shake in order to see the fire and the damage ticks scrolling across the screen you need to stop matching your druid healer shot for shot.

(Someone actually did that last part, on vent, in my old guild.  Strangely, the druid improved markedly as time wore on.)

[Sjofn]

Really the only people who I can't see having much benefit out of having a raid frame visible are Rogues and Warlocks. Everyone else has one or more abilities which you may need to apply to any member of the raid at given times during some or all fights. Being able to target people fast for these is only going to improve your raid's success over time.

The default UI covers that for most of my characters. Shit, I can still cleanse better than an awful lot of paladins with just that rather than a real heal grid. ><

[Fordel]

The biggest thing for umm "Off-Cleansing", is having a mouse over macro, so you don't have to actually lose the boss target.

[K9]

Really the only people who I can't see having much benefit out of having a raid frame visible are Rogues and Warlocks. Everyone else has one or more abilities which you may need to apply to any member of the raid at given times during some or all fights.

This is not true.

Really, DBM/BigWigs isn't needed in most cases any more, and raid frames are not needed at all for many classes.  Damage/debuffs in raids are largely predictable and announced by the stock UI.  If you need your entire fucking screen to shake in order to see the fire and the damage ticks scrolling across the screen you need to stop matching your druid healer shot for shot.

(Someone actually did that last part, on vent, in my old guild.  Strangely, the druid improved markedly as time wore on.)

You seem to misunderstand the difference between raid frames and boss mods. 

The default raid frames are larger, more cluttered and less informative than what is available from grid, x-perl or pitbull; and more or less every class except rogues and warlocks have some or many in-fight abilities that may require selective targeting at any raid member.

[SurfD]

Yep.  I almost never play my druid in ANY form (Bear, cat or LazerChicken) without grid up somewhere on my screen.  Unless you want to stop for 3 or 4 seconds and possibly die in the Fire / Cloud / eye beam / Lava Wall / Tornado / Void Zone / Cleave / etc while you type /tar Playername to try to find the person who just asked for an innervate or battlerez, having a decent raid frame which is compact yet concise in it's information display is a must.

[kildorn]

Really the only people who I can't see having much benefit out of having a raid frame visible are Rogues and Warlocks. Everyone else has one or more abilities which you may need to apply to any member of the raid at given times during some or all fights. Being able to target people fast for these is only going to improve your raid's success over time.

The default UI covers that for most of my characters. Shit, I can still cleanse better than an awful lot of paladins with just that rather than a real heal grid. ><

part of me wants to say "hey, you guys are helping cleanse, thanks!"

part of me wanted to paste the recount dispel chart and point out that I still had 70+% of the dispels when I'd get pissy and make time to dispel when I didn't think they were dropping fast enough <3

But a raid healing frame helps a ton with reaction times to dispel. But healing is imo the only highly recommended addon that Blizz hasn't copied wholesale into the base UI now. You can live without it, but they help a lot with not feeling overwhelmed on some of the more intense fights.

[Sjofn]

The biggest thing for umm "Off-Cleansing", is having a mouse over macro, so you don't have to actually lose the boss target.

I don't have one (feel free to PM me the macro though) and I wound up doing the cleansing on the end Nexus fight in heroic because it was just TOO MUCH TO HANDLE for our paladin healer. ><

[Hindenburg]

Your post made me look Keri's move list on wowhead.

I now hate every priest and paladin that has ever teamed with me to do that instance.

[kildorn]

Your post made me look Keri's move list on wowhead.

I now hate every priest and paladin that has ever teamed with me to do that instance.

You didn't know about the root? It's the "fuck youuuuu" move that makes you think about the fight a bit.

[Hindenburg]

I did, I just assumed that it couldn't be removed since the fuckers always had me standing there, popping UA/IBS/AMS during the full duration and praying that DPS would have the sense to go balls to the walls during the enrage.

[Sjofn]

Ahahaha, oh, poor Hindenburg. That makes me feel slightly better about MY experience at least. <3

[kildorn]

Wait wait wait. You were the TANK and not getting cleansed?

My goddamned UI won't stop pestering me if the tank has anything on them that can be removed.

[AutomaticZen]

According to WoW Insider, she's still hard as shit.

[Hindenburg]

Wait wait wait. You were the TANK and not getting cleansed?

My goddamned UI won't stop pestering me if the tank has anything on them that can be removed.

Yep.
Pugging: it's awesome.

[Sjofn]

I was also the tank in my little experience. I was NOT pugging. >< >< ><

[kildorn]

Not my fault your guild healers su.. shit.