2009 NFL

[Nevermore]

He doesn't have to be Montana.  He only needs to be Joe Flacco: in a run first offense just manage the game, don't fuck up, have a strong arm and be accurate enough to punish the defense if they try to stack up against the run.

[Trippy]

Which is fine except that Stewie is claiming Henne has the skills and talent of Jay Cutler.

[Stewie]

Whoa hold up there and dont be putting words in my mouth.
heres what I said.
All I was saying was that he has the potential to be every bit as good as Cutler. I also am well aware that 1 or 2 good games is not a true measure of how good he will end up being.  But I really like what I have seen so far. The Game last night just reinforced everything I said earlier.
I've yet to hear any good argument as to why he will never be a playoff winning qb other than "I'm confident because I watched 75% of the games in his college career and every single big game he ever had."
Hoax, I'm not trying to change your mind, Honestly I don't care whether you like the guy or not. I'm just curious as to why you don't.  I have not seen anything to indicate that he wont be good, but if there is something I'm missing in the way he plays, I'm all ears.

[Trippy]

I didn't put any words in your mouth.

[Hoax]

All I said is he's not going to go and win playoff games, very few QB's go out and just take over a playoff game and win one.  Cutler sure has shit hasn't done that yet.

You are now beside yourself saying how can I possibly say that.  I told you.  I've watched enough football that in a betting situation I'd take a Henne never puts a team on his shoulders and wins a playoff game bet.  Based on the fact that I watched him choke in so many big games at Michigan I lost count.  His leadership was lacking, his poise was lacking, his killer instinct was lacking and he folded under pressure a ton.  You can't coach that shit away.  That's what I'm going off of, but its just one guy on the internet I'm not claiming to be some fucking guru or anything, was just amused at how quick you were being to get excited about the kid.  Remember when Jason Campbell went out and won some games and everyone got excited about how he was really going to turn out to be a good QB?  This is sort of like that.

Again though, I made a really safe bet, that Henne will never go out and just win a playoff game.  How many pretty to very good QB's in the league have never pulled that off?  Will he end up as good as Flacco?  Who knows, you sure Flacco is as good as everybody thinks he is?

[taolurker]

1. Jets defense sucked Monday, had problems stopping the run, so it made throws easy (even for running backs).

2. The game was played in a hot humid Miami with temperatures around 80 for the game.

3. Missed tackles on the best running back tandem, and opportunities to score missed on offense.

Henne is a decent rookie, but was made good by holes in the defense. I can't decide if I was more upset with the Jets D or with all the Edwards throws while ignoring the middle of the field. Two of the drives the Jets punted there were open receivers and Sanchez has zero progression looking Edwards all the way.

I think Henne spread it around more than Sanchez, and looked like the way better rookie, and I'm a Jets fan.

[Paelos]

So, the Cutler for Orton trade.  

That's NOT the way I thought things were going to unfold. Broncos are 6-0. Wow.

[Rasix]

Broncos seem to start strong every year.

[Paelos]

Broncos seem to start strong every year.

This would be the best in a decade.

[Rasix]

Well, they started well in 2008 and had the collapse at the end.  2006 was a strong start also.  No 6-0, but those teams started strong and ended up disappointments.  This team looks to be playoff bound, but we'll see from there.

[Fordel]

If the Bronco D keeps on keepin, they'll have no problems going all the way.

They just destroyed the Charger QB, especially in the 4th.

[Brogarn]

I only watched the first half last night and thought that it would be a high scoring game with a chance to go either way. I didn't expect the rookie head coach of Denver to come out of the half and and have his team dominate the rest of the game.

Also, Kyle Orton? Wow. He just really fits into this system, doesn't he? It's really satisfying to watch him succeed considering the circumstances of the trade. Him being lumped into the trade deal like he wasn't good enough to stand on his own had to sting a bit. It's got to feel good to show how good a QB he can be on the right team. Good for him.

[Nevermore]

So maybe the problem wasn't so much Orton as it was Chicago's offense?

[Murgos]

So maybe the problem wasn't so much Orton as it was Chicago's offense?

Also, it probably isn't so much Cutler as it is Denver's offense.

Anyway, if Orton would remember to hand the ball off to Forte so as to establish a running game he might not be quite so stressed in the pocket.

[naum]

If the Bronco D keeps on keepin, they'll have no problems going all the way.

They just destroyed the Charger QB, especially in the 4th.

Broncos coaching staff excelling in making adjustments. Their 2nd half defense has allowed like a FG (40+ at that) in the past 5 games…

[Nebu]

Anyway, if Orton would remember to hand the ball off to Forte so as to establish a running game he might not be quite so stressed in the pocket.

I'm sure Orton would love to hand off to Forte.  Sadly, he's stuck with Moreno.  

[HaemishM]

Well, they started well in 2008 and had the collapse at the end.  2006 was a strong start also.  No 6-0, but those teams started strong and ended up disappointments.  This team looks to be playoff bound, but we'll see from there.

I don't see anything stopping them from reaching the playoffs. The Raiders and Chiefs are absolute punching bags this year... again. The Chargers can pass but they can't seem to run worth a shit this year. LT is too hurt, Sproles isn't the kind of bruising runner they need to spell LT. Their defense is average at best. The Broncos meanwhile, aren't turning the ball over, their defense seems stifling and they beat San Diego on the road. The Chargers might be lucky to make the playoffs, the Broncos are a shoe-in. I feel dirty saying this, but Orton may be just what the Broncos needed. Not great, but like Garrard was that year the Jags won 12 games, he's just not making mistakes.

Meanwhile the Saints defense looks like it's for real. Maybe if Eli had been all the way healthy, the Giants would have been more of a challenge, but even with the running game, the Giants couldn't control that game.

And Goddamnit, the fucking Ravens should have beat Minnesota. Fucking kickers.

[Brogarn]

Meanwhile the Saints defense looks like it's for real. Maybe if Eli had been all the way healthy, the Giants would have been more of a challenge, but even with the running game, the Giants couldn't control that game.

I don't think this one should hang around Eli's neck, and trust me, I yell at him through the TV quite often. This was more a combination of Brees being on absolute fire and the Giants' D not knowing what to do about it and looking like a bunch of amateurs out there. Not Titan's bad, but pretty bad all the same. Games against shitty teams were hiding the injuries we have on D. The Saints, being a damn good team, brought that out and shined a huge light on it.

I miss Spags. :(

[Nebu]

And Goddamnit, the fucking Ravens should have beat Minnesota. Fucking kickers.

While I agree, I have to confess that this is the first time in forever that I've enjoyed watching my childhood team.  They have a solid running game (which Minnesota never has), a decent air attack, a great young TE, and solid defense.  I have no delusion that Minnesota will win the Super Bowl, but I am sure enjoying the season. 

[naum]

I don't see anything stopping them from reaching the playoffs. The Raiders and Chiefs are absolute punching bags this year... again. The Chargers can pass but they can't seem to run worth a shit this year. LT is too hurt, Sproles isn't the kind of bruising runner they need to spell LT. Their defense is average at best. The Broncos meanwhile, aren't turning the ball over, their defense seems stifling and they beat San Diego on the road. The Chargers might be lucky to make the playoffs, the Broncos are a shoe-in. I feel dirty saying this, but Orton may be just what the Broncos needed. Not great, but like Garrard was that year the Jags won 12 games, he's just not making mistakes.

Sproles can't run between the tackles or even off tackle. The offense SD runs isn't suited for his Eric Metcalf skills — which would be better suited as slotback or maybe they could embrace the Wildcat craze but that would be nonsensical, taking away Rivers ability…

Also, LT is a worn down back now, still a good back, but not at the dominant level he was a few years ago…

[Murgos]

Anyway, if Orton would remember to hand the ball off to Forte so as to establish a running game he might not be quite so stressed in the pocket.

I'm sure Orton would love to hand off to Forte.  Sadly, he's stuck with Moreno.  

Sorry, meant Cutler.   

[Margalis]

Minnesota is a worse team than their record indicates. I expect a couple of losing efforts followed by endless Farvruh debating.

[Nebu]

Minnesota is a worse team than their record indicates. I expect a couple of losing efforts followed by endless Farvruh debating.

The power rankings on ESPN and out of Las Vegas both have them in the top 5 in the NFL.  Where do you rate them?  Looking at defensive performance, running game, and record, it's tough to argue that they should be out of the top 5.  Top 5 does match their win-loss record and they're certainly better than Denver, another undefeated team.

[01101010]

Minnesota is a worse team than their record indicates. I expect a couple of losing efforts followed by endless Farvruh debating.

when Favre is your weakest link... I'd say they are pretty well and good as a team.

[Murgos]

Minnesota is a worse team than their record indicates. I expect a couple of losing efforts followed by endless Farvruh debating.

The power rankings on ESPN and out of Las Vegas both have them in the top 5 in the NFL.  Where do you rate them?  Looking at defensive performance, running game, and record, it's tough to argue that they should be out of the top 5.  Top 5 does match their win-loss record and they're certainly better than Denver, another undefeated team.

They've won a couple of games on last second heroics.  It makes for fun games but you should be aware that they could easily be 4-2 right now.

[Trippy]

Their schedule has been soft too.

[Paelos]

The Vikings beat:

Cleveland, 1-5
Detroit, 1-5
San Fran, by a FG, 3-2
Green Bay, 3-2
St. Louis, 0-6
Baltimore, and they shouldn't have won, 3-3

There's not a single division leader on that list, unless you count SF in a tie with Arizona. I personally don't because the NFC West is the biggest suckass division in the league. I fully expect Pittsburgh to de-pants the Vikings this weekend.

[Nebu]

Pittsburgh has played the Titans, Bears, Bengals, Chargers, Lions, and Browns.  During this time they took two losses.  The only decent team in that lot are the Chargers (I think the Bengals are a farce and they proved it last weekend).  Not exactly a mammoth schedule there either. 

I think that Pittsburgh has a solid chance at beating the Vikings, but I think that's far more of a matchup issue than anything else.  Ben is playing very well and will handle the defensive pressure better than many other QB's in the league.  This will be especially problemmatic if Pittsburgh can establish a running game early on.  Willie Parker getting healthy now should help.

[Paelos]

Well, all that and they are defending champs.

[WayAbvPar]

With any luck a new supervolcano will open under the stadium and swallow Pittsburgh and the Vikings whole.

[naum]

The Steelers opponents:

TEN 0-6 (W)
CHI 3-2 (L)
CIN 4-2 (L)
SD 2-3 (W)
DET 1-5 (W)
CLE 1-5 (W)

The two losses, should have been Steeler wins — blown lead @ CHI where Jeff Reed missed 2 4th quarter FG and @ CIN again blown lead and defense went to sleep in 4th quarter (both losses by a FG). Otherwise, PIT is 6-0 and we are looking at a clash of undefeated teams.

Last two were softies and during DET game, it looked like PIT "played down" to the competiton, but not the first four (and though SD + Rivers made game interesting, it was a blowout for most of game).  Yes, TEN is 0-6 but it was a different team in week 1 — they had NFL caliber players starting in the secondary positions but now teams are exploiting the lack of skill at those spots, though it looked like the team as a whole has just quit on the season.

That said, if it was in MIN, I would lean Vikings but @ Heinz Field I expect the Steelers to prevail.

[HaemishM]

Minnesota is a very good team this year, and Favre is most definitely not their weak link. The weak link is at wideout - those guys are playing way above their level. They've been helped by a run game that has to be respected and the fact that it's early season and Favre hasn't worn down yet. He either hasn't had to make many passes (like early in the season) or hasn't been pressured at all (Green Bay game). The Ravens game had lots of stupid penalties on the Ravens, and most of the game, the Ravens couldn't get any kind of offense going. And Minnesota still should have lost that game. If Favre's arm wears down like I expect it to (though later in the season than last year because of fewer early throws), the Vikes will make the playoffs but not go to the Super Bowl. If it doesn't, the team has more than enough to win a Super Bowl - strong defense, great running game, good QB. Hell, the Ravens won a Super Bowl on defense and runnning with TRENT FUCKING DILFER. The only receiver they had worth a damn that year Sharpe.

[Cyrrex]

I agree with Haemish for the most part.  They are dangerous right now because they got a trifecta going...a very dangerous running game, as surprisingly competent passing game and a good defense.  Barring injuries, the only real question is if Favre can manage to keep it up and/or if that receiving corps comes down to earth.  Shiancoe seems to be getting better and better all the time, Harvin is dangerous, Rice is having a revival and Berrian is pretty solid.

[Rasix]

How can you have a revival if you were never shit to begin with?  

Oddly enough, I think the key to beating Min is taking your chances with AP and hoping he has an off game. Until people start hitting Favre, he's not going to slow down (unless he still has lingering arm issues).  With single coverage on almost every play, any QB not named Vince Young is going to pick apart defenses.

And putting up points on that D hasn't been much of a problem for people yet.  But being down to them in throwing only situations is going to get nasty with that pass rush.

[Cyrrex]

Sorry, wrong words chosen.  He is playing way above his pay scale right now, is all.