Isle of Conquest

[Xanthippe]

I played about 6 games last night.  Won all 6 games, some easily, some hard fought.

Generally, my battlegroup has a fairly even score for wins/losses between the two sides.

Granted, it's a small sample but is there some disadvantage to Horde side?

[kildorn]

Not that I've been able to tell so far.

It seems to me like the game is settled currently in the first 5 minutes. Whoever gets siege on the doors properly wins. This will likely change as people "get" the airships.

[Paelos]

I played once yesterday. We flew around on the ship and bombarded things. I couldn't figure out what the hell to do when you parachuted into the castle until I noticed the bombs hanging around. We ended up losing on the boss because we got wiped once inside the castle and the Horde caught up.

[Jayce]

I just can't stop thinking of it as "I love Conquest".

I think it's the early Piers Anthony "Isle of View" influence.

[Fordel]

You just had a good streak Xanth.

[K9]

This BG is pretty fun, and makes good use of vehicles. My only gripe is that it is in serious need of some tuning. Currently, if one side zergs the Hanger sufficiently to collapse whoever the other side sends there, they can easily get 15-30 people inside the fort within 2-3 minutes and that's pretty much game over. I realise that Blizzard have worked hard to move away from the 14 hour AV matches of yore, but some of these games are just too short. BGs should be tuned to take around 10-15 minutes, the current incarnation takes half that, and with games that short the amount of time spent queuing and in the pre-fight buffing becomes disproportionately large.

Still, overall I give it 6.5/10; it can definitely be improved, but the fundamental concept and environment are very well done.

[Xanthippe]

Winning strategy seems to be:  send most everyone to the Hangar, get on board zepp, drop into opposing fort, take down walls from inside, kill boss.

Not as much fun as taking all the bases and having battles around the bases, though.

[K9]

That seems to be the feeling in my batlegroup too. It's not really very fun. I'm sure the BG will see more tuning in the coming weeks and months though.

[Fordel]

There's a pretty simple counter strategy to the airship drop in, just defend the keep flat out. It's real easy to pick them off as they drop in all over the place scattered and disoriented. They can't capture the keep GY till a door is down, so they'll rez at best, back at the airship and have to wait for another pass.


It's just the Airship is the totally awesome new toy  , so everyone is flocking to it.

[Paelos]

They need to do something better with the docks. As it stands, they are pretty useless overall.

[K9]

The stealth catapaults are pretty cool. I reckon if they removed the ability to parachute in from the airship, and left the airship as the awesome bombard platform it is, then the docs would be balanced, as the catapaults would then be your best way to break the gates from the inside.

How do you get Siege Tanks by the way? I haven't figure it out.

[Fordel]

The stealth catapaults are pretty cool. I reckon if they removed the ability to parachute in from the airship, and left the airship as the awesome bombard platform it is, then the docs would be balanced, as the catapaults would then be your best way to break the gates from the inside.

How do you get Siege Tanks by the way? I haven't figure it out.

The Siege Tank becomes available after you've held onto the Workshop for X minutes. Don't know the exact time yet. It's like 3-5 mins though. It's a damn beast too.


The Glaive throwers and StealthPeoplePults are both extremely valuable, but they are just overshadowed by OMG AIRSHIP PEWPEWPEWPEWPEW right now.



It's like how in AV when it first came out, Ivus/Lokholar were the WOO BIG DEAL bad asses! Yet the Special Infantry or Ram/Wolf Riders were far more effective. Once people realize there are seaforium bombs at the workshop and you can just bomb the doors from the outside just as easily as you could from dropping in and doing it from the inside and etc.


With that said, AirShip Cannon-erring is 

[Sjofn]

Ran this a couple of times with my hunter. I likes it. :)

[Fordel]

After playing a bunch more, I've come to the conclusion that the Glaive throwers are way more valuable then the airship.


The Two of them, can tear up a Keep gate from Full to Zero in roughly 3-5 minutes... from OUTSIDE keep cannon range. 

[Zetor]

After playing a bunch more, I've come to the conclusion that the Glaive throwers are way more valuable then the airship.


The Two of them, can tear up a Keep gate from Full to Zero in roughly 3-5 minutes... from OUTSIDE keep cannon range. 

They also 2-shot players, which is pretty  . Kind of fragile though...

[Fordel]

People just don't grasp the catapults at all.


At BEST, they fire themselves in the keep, but leave the catapult right on the road in front of the keep cannons.


Move them 3 feet to the left and another 10 people can follow in like 15-20 seconds.

[Fordel]

The OTHER thing I'm finding really annoying.


People, it isn't enough to simply EXIST in the enemy courtyard, you need to actually drop bombs on the gate for it to work!


25 people in their courtyard, 5 of us dropping bombs, 20 camping the 4 horde in their GY. 

[kildorn]

I had one where people kept taking the bombs and trying to bomb the inner keep gate, not the front gates.

But then I had one with two of us in the courtyard on top of the keep occupying about half their forces. Priest shields me, I jump down, pick someone off, demonic circle back up when they rush me <3

[Fordel]

The people who can't seem to ignore roof campers are so 


Move 5 feet away, they can no longer threaten you in any way!

[Sheepherder]

People, it isn't enough to simply EXIST in the enemy courtyard, you need to actually drop bombs on the gate for it to work!

I think, therefore I am.

Conversely; I don't think, therefore I am not.

See?  Existence is half the battle!

Edit: Don't added to second maxim.

[Fordel]

People are adapting to this BG, way, way faster then any of the others.

It's what, day 2, and I already have people using glaive+pults to clear the turrets, smash the door, collect huge bombs and let the Demolishers ram the door.


I'm sure the Horde that were giddy about the airship drop in with their bomb line were more then a little bit surprised when their door went down at minute 4 of the game. 

[SurfD]

Priest shields me, I jump down, pick someone off, demonic circle back up when they rush me <3

Demonic circle is just fucking broken for that simple reason.

It is the only self teleport / distance gain / close type ability that ignores Line of Sight and pathing mechanics.  I wouldn't mind it so much, if say Blink worked the same way, or if i could feral cat charge (which with a leaping animation should work) up to the strange places locks can stick their portal, but as it stands, it pisses me off WAY too much when locks can stick the damn circle in impossible to reach places and port to it from pretty much ANYWHERE within range.

/rant off

sorry, just had to vent on that.

[kildorn]

Yet most warlocks would trade that ability for the ability to use it while stunned <3

[Musashi]

Priest shields me, I jump down, pick someone off, demonic circle back up when they rush me <3

Demonic circle is just fucking broken for that simple reason.

It is the only self teleport / distance gain / close type ability that ignores Line of Sight and pathing mechanics.  I wouldn't mind it so much, if say Blink worked the same way, or if i could feral cat charge (which with a leaping animation should work) up to the strange places locks can stick their portal, but as it stands, it pisses me off WAY too much when locks can stick the damn circle in impossible to reach places and port to it from pretty much ANYWHERE within range.

/rant off

sorry, just had to vent on that.

Charge used to ignore LoS, and just find a path as long as the target was withing the range.  I remember when I was a noob warrior, at the bottom of the troll cave in southern Desolace, charging all the way around the ramp back up to the top.  It was pretty awesome.  It was also changed shortly thereafter to require a LoS check.

[Sheepherder]

Charging up almost sheer cliffs is still fun though.

[bhodi]

No bear missl :(

[kildorn]

The Glaive Thrower is absolutely brutal.

And my team insists on turtling in our courtyard while I solo the enemy door down to 2% before someone finally manages to kill me while I do so. Idiots.

[Malakili]

I played one game of this the other day.  Was my first PvP in Lich King actually, since I don't really care about WoW PvP at all.  It was mildly fun.  It seems like they didn't learn much from AV though.

[Fordel]

I played one game of this the other day.  Was my first PvP in Lich King actually, since I don't really care about WoW PvP at all.  It was mildly fun.  It seems like they didn't learn much from AV though.

In what regard?





So after 200 odd games, some thoughts:

Them nerfing the Seaforium bombs to be expended on use helped to balance out the nodes some, but the workshop is still virtually useless without the Docks/Hangar to get people inside to take out the keep cannons. Demolishers seem to be at worst, distractions, at best, DPS adds for your Glaive throwers. The Workshops only really awesome bit is the SteamTank.

The Glaives are the clear choice now, with everyone fighting over the Dock instead of the Hangar. Well, almost everyone. We still get people who think the Hangar will win it all (with them bitching the entire time about how we will lose and we are all idiots. Then the enemy door goes down at minute 5 and someone will go "good thing we took the hangar!"  ). The main difference between the Glaives and the Airship, is the Glaives are counter-able even if you can't capture the Docks. Very fragile, but still without question, the fastest way to take out a keep door. The largest flaw, sometimes a real winner will end up driving one or both throwers. They'll sit in cannon fire, attack the wrong door, not attack the door at all... 

The Side Doors on the Keep have only 75-50% of the HP of the Center Door. That isn't really obvious unless you spend a lot of time breaking various doors. Two Glaives throwers, both attacking the West Gate, will take down the door in 4-5 minutes, depending on Quarry/Oil-Rig bonuses.

The SteamTank, is a God Damn BEAST. That thing can kill a zerg flat out in 10 seconds or less if all the pilots/gunners are competent. The amount of AE Damage it can deal out is just staggering. Broken more then a few turtles with that thing. The SteamCharge alone will literally cleave a path through the enemy, sending them flying in all directions and taking 5-15k damage in one go. Of course, half the time Captain XxDarkShadowAwesomexX will be the one who manages to grab the thing and spends 5 minutes driving in a circle chasing one lone hunter.

The Airship is still fairly useful, but it is very costly in terms of man-power. You need 6-8 players to man the guns, then you need another 5-15 to drop in for proper Bomb usage and cannon killing. Even with all that, it's still significantly slower then the Glaive Throwers. The main advantage to the Airship, is as long as you hold the Hangar, you can't stop it. A small but dedicated defense team can take out the throwers rapidly and really delay the enemy offense, but the Airship will just keep circling and eventually, you will get a door down.

One of the largest issues I'm finding, is getting people OUT of our fucking Keep already. If your offensive force fails at all 3 siege nodes, it is a giant bitch to get people to actually go back out and assaulting again. They just happily run out the door to be farmed and rez in the keep again. All the while bitching about how we all suck, always and forever, and why <faction> never wins blah blah etc. I've had too many games where a small team of us will take down the enemy gate, a good 10 minutes before they take ours down, but we can't kill the general because there's only 2-4 of us and no one will move to the enemy keep. So far the best way seems to be to just let the enemy take every node but their own Keep GY node, and once they assault our keep, all our players Rez in the correct keep and we maybe Zerg their general in time.


In other news, I got my Tabard of Conquest. /epeen

[K9]

You've won 100 games already? Damn...

[Soulflame]

Glaives are fucking retarded.  Their range enables them to hit the door outside of the range of the defensive cannons.

Alliance understands this on my server.  Horde does not.

I haven't won a game since the first day.

[Paelos]

Glaives are fucking retarded.  Their range enables them to hit the door outside of the range of the defensive cannons.

Alliance understands this on my server.  Horde does not.

I haven't won a game since the first day.

That's sort of the point. Hell, I'd be happy if they nerfed defensive cannon damage but extended the range. As it stands now, there's no point in taking the middle siege engines at all due to the cannon damage.

[K9]

I soloed a glaive as a holy priest. Glaives are sort-of balanced in the sense that if you get a couple of players on them they go down crazy fast. The problem is a lot of people don't register that the glaives are quietly hammering away at the gate

I did a bunch of IoC today, and the thing which actually beat us quickest was a 10-man premade using the catapaults. They coordinated and were over the wall and bombing the side door so fast people didn't really register.

[Fordel]

They are very easy to kill though, you just have to go out there and do it in person. Sometimes I just end up suiciding myself against them a few times, it isn't pretty, but they die.



If you join a game before it starts, the best way to get as many people where you need them to go is just repeating something like:


"Go to the Docks, Protect the Glaive Throwers, Attack the WestGate (It has less HP). The Workshop sucks, the Hangar Sucks (it has been nerfed). If we take the Docks and Protect the Glaives, we'll win in 9 minutes."


Don't demand it, or start the all caps crusade. Just put it out there like you are stating facts, water is wet etc. People will start to pick up on it, and once you win a few times like that, you'll see people repeating it in the next game before you even have too, usually with a lot of exuberance and excitement.

"Guys Guys, Take the motherfucking Docks, we've won the last 8 games in a row by owning shit up with the glaives throwers!!!!"
"Docks or Bust you bitches woooo!"
"EVERYONE 2TEH DOCKZ FUUUUUUUUUU"
"What about the Hangar? :("
"FUCK THE HANGAR 2 TeH DOCKS, DO U WANT 2 WIN U FREAKIN NOOB?"
"Docks PLox, for cereal"

But still repeat your own calm spiel, Docks, Protect Glaives, West Gate etc. Good chance someone will recognize you and vouch for you and then you'll have 20-30 people who will be willing to actually listen and adjust to the changing situation. Always be the good cop, but don't whine and don't be a passive aggressive bitch. When ever possible, ask for specific people to do things. "Can someone take <blah>" will get you no where, but asking "JoeJimDK, you are right beside the quarry, can you cap it quickly?" will get you results probably 75% of the time. It makes the player feel important and vital, being acknowledged as a individual. 

When someone starts whining (100% guaranteed, even in the most perfect victory ensured games), don't feed it. Just keep on as business as usual. They'll eventually tire themselves out and look like a douche once the enemy door goes down or whatever. If they don't tire themselves out, or are spreading the whine to other people, I usually shoot out a "Less QQ, More PewPew! Please and Thankyou!". This works like 80% of the time, don't ask me why exactly, it just does.

Probably the most important thing though, is to NOT shut up. Keep constantly reminding everyone of what they are supposed to be doing. "Need more glaive defenders please and thankyou!", "The Enemy Siege at the WestGate needs to be killed, please and thankyou!", "FrankJackGlaivePilot, please move back 10 yards, you are in keep cannon range!".

If people have questions, try to answer them, but don't be a prick about it. Don't talk to them like little children, even though they probably ARE little children... but as soon as you start that "you are so stupid, listen to me as I speak slowly and carefully", you'll engage their Emo Rebellion ability which just shits up the entire team chat.


/Cat herding 101


It actually works though, is the fucked up thing. If I stay silent at the start of a game, and no one else is herding, my win rate is roughly 50%. Once I start the basic spiel and keep giving people reminders as to what the fuck they are supposed to do though? It goes up to 80-90%. The wins will start to feed the system and it's lulz all around.



K9, each win is on average, 8-11 minutes, so it doesn't take as long as you would think. Couple hours every other evening or whatever. I do admit I played the shit out of the BG the opening weekend, so that probably sped things up. Usually got 10-20 wins every night I played.

[Vash]

"Guys Guys, Take the motherfucking Docks, we've won the last 8 games in a row by owning shit up with the glaives throwers!!!!"
"Docks or Bust you bitches woooo!"
"EVERYONE 2TEH DOCKZ FUUUUUUUUUU"
"What about the Hangar? :("
"FUCK THE HANGAR 2 TeH DOCKS, DO U WANT 2 WIN U FREAKIN NOOB?"
"Docks PLox, for cereal"

   Sooo sad, but sooo true.