Vaping with eCigarettes

[OcellotJenkins]

I'm late to the party but wanted add to this great thread.  Been vaping for a little over a month now and loving it.  Making sense of all of the variations of equipment, juices, and vendors was a little frustrating at first and it took a bit of experimenting but I found a great setup for me.

I'm rocking 3 kr808d-1 battery eCigs, one extra long with a manual switch and two automatic regulars.  I also have a USB pass through for the car.  I personally like a two piece system like this as there is less to fool with.  I just buy blank cartomizers and refill them after a day's use.  The XL battery lasts a long damn time and that coupled with the two shorter autos for stealth vaping at work I'm good to go.  The manual is a better experience but I like that I can safely put the autos in my pocket without the fear of activating the switch.

I have to recommend two vendors as they've been awesome for me.  vapor4life.com is great for the hardware and blank cartos.  They run sales every week, for example right now the "BEATCLOCK" code gets you 29% off.  Also mstsbakery.com has amazing juice!  Her snickerdoodle cookie and strawberry lemonade made all the difference for me and I didn't enjoy vaping to it's fullest until I found her.  Both vendors highly recommended on ECF.

Anyways, if I upgrade at some point down the line, I think the eGo Mega will be the way to go.

[Nerf]

One of these days I should post up my old wholesale price sheets so people can see how 'great' of a deal they're getting from these vendors.

I ran into a guy on campus last week that was paying $30 for fucking standard 510 batteries from one of these fucks.  I decided to dig and find one of my old sheets for giggles - <$3, heh.

It's all just re-branded shit from China anyways, don't waste your money paying some guy to import it with his logo and claim it's the next best thing.  Even non-wholesale prices from China blow everyone stateside out of the water.

[Furiously]

I'd still buy my juice from someone who claims they are using USDA grade stuff instead of Chinese imports.

[Nerf]

I'd still buy my juice from someone who claims they are using USDA grade stuff instead of Chinese imports.

Do you only buy your steaks from EPA and FDA certified butchers, or make sure that any car you buy has passed the rigorous safety standards set by the ATF?

[Furiously]

I'd still buy my juice from someone who claims they are using USDA grade stuff instead of Chinese imports.

Do you only buy your steaks from EPA and FDA certified butchers, or make sure that any car you buy has passed the rigorous safety standards set by the ATF?

Yes. I don't order my beef from China. And in Washington if you import a car from another country you have to get it safety inspected.

[OcellotJenkins]

One of these days I should post up my old wholesale price sheets so people can see how 'great' of a deal they're getting from these vendors.

I ran into a guy on campus last week that was paying $30 for fucking standard 510 batteries from one of these fucks.  I decided to dig and find one of my old sheets for giggles - <$3, heh.

It's all just re-branded shit from China anyways, don't waste your money paying some guy to import it with his logo and claim it's the next best thing.  Even non-wholesale prices from China blow everyone stateside out of the water.

I paid $14 bucks for an XL KR808 battery.  Assuming it lasts a few months I don't think that is too bad.  Smaller batteries than that are going for $40 at the mall, which is clearly a rip off.  Getting them for $3 would be nice, but it isn't feasible for most people to pool together and place a bulk order like you are talking about. 

[MahrinSkel]

Just as an update: I had managed to break or wear out all of my home-brew kits, and decided to just buy a standard kit (I'm missing most of my tools).  These days, there are kits made in China and Korea that take most of the ideas from the mod scene.  You can get big-battery e-cigs (up to 1300mAh), battery pucks, and voltage-regulated models, factory made.  There's also a new wave of dual-coil cartomizers that make the low-resistance atomizers pointless, and a couple of models with built-in tanks.

I expected this, which is why I pulled the plug on turning making my own mods into a business, but it has definitely arrived.  You can still get American-made battery/switch packs that are prettier than what's coming from Asia, but there really isn't a feature difference anymore.

For myself, I wound up picking up an E-Power 14670 from SmokTek and a variety pack of dual-coil cartomizers (to find out which model works best).  With a 3.5mL cartomizer, I might be able to stop switching back to regular cigarettes when I drive (reloading an e-cig while driving is too damned dangerous, and I puff like a fiend on the road).

--Dave

Just got the unit: Dual-coil cartomizers are the shiznit.  I've gotten equal vapor production out of some of my flat-pack/low resistance atomizer homebrew models, but you combine that with a 3.5-5.5mL capacity and it's better than analogs without the "just licked an ashtray" taste.  The overall unit is pretty big compared to the traditional e-cig (about 7 inches long and 3/4 of an inch across), but I'm used to big units (and it's smaller than an equivalent homebrew).  I actually managed to give myself a nicotine buzz.  It's cheaper than the equivalent mods ($45 plus another $12 for 3 DCC's, vs. $70+ for a big-batt mod), and unlike the bit-bat ecigs out right now like the Ego I can replace the switch ($12) and batteries ($4) separately.  Ego/Riva batteries in the same capacity range cost $18-20.

[Engels]

So, on the topic of juice...What are people's experiences? What kinds do you look for?

My story thus far is with myfreedomsmokes, with their cigarette-style flavors and with Johnson Creek smoke juice, which does more sweet 'pipe' flavored tobacco.

From myfreedomsmokes, I have liked their Dunhill and their whiskey flavor, and my partner likes their Lucky Strike flavor. With Johnson Creek, I like their Red Oak Tennessee Cured, which is a sweet style pipe tabacco flavor. Their other flavors range from 'ok' to blech.

I know that Katiri like the stuff from Mrs. T's bakery, and I'm sure its fine if you're looking for a sweet flavor.

I'd keep using them if nothing else was around, but I'm wondering if people have had better results in finding juice that doesn't rely on a sweet base flavor.

[MahrinSkel]

I DIY with LorAnn flavors, usually the low-residue fruit flavors (blueberry, peach, raspberry, watermelon, and so on).  I don't particularly like the taste of tobacco, and although I like the taste of the creme flavors (especially banana), they clog up the atomizers too damned fast.  It's a bit more work, but I bought 2.5 liters of 24mg liquid (actually 1 liter of 6%, a liter of PG, and 500 mL of VG) almost two years ago for $300 and I still have a liter and a half left.  Keep all but the half-liter I'm currently mixing from in the freezer, and haven't had any problems with the nicotine losing strength.

Even for DIY, you can get absolute tobacco extracts and lick all the ashtrays you want.

--Dave

[Engels]

Tempting as that may be, I think I'd best leave that to the pros, since I actually want something that seems to be a bit of a rare bird in the ejuice buisiness. My juice probably WOULD taste like an ashtray, rather than a cigarette. I know, its a fine distinction to those who aren't recent smokers, but its an itch non the less.

[ghost]

Electronic cigarette blows up and knocks out all of a guy's teeth.

He must not have had many teeth is all I've got to say.   

[MahrinSkel]

There have been reported of explosions before, but not with a significant injury.  Generally it involves homebrew high-voltage mods made out of flashlight bodies (and it's been seen in the light-hounds community as well).  In essence, when you jam two small batteries into a body designed for 1 large one, and you hermetically seal the case, you can get a compromised cell that starts outgassing, which leads to a pressure buildup in the case, which increases temperature, which means more gassing....  You wind up with the equivalent of an M80 going off in your hand.

--Dave

[Engels]

I'm sure that there are going to be isolated instances of this happening. Much like with iPhones blowing up. Of course, the media is going to jump on the fear factor and blow it out of proportion, at which point a politician will decide its a crusade, a subcommittee will be formed, and Ron Paul will get 30 more votes after he yammers on about freedom from gummint.

[ghost]

There have been reported of explosions before, but not with a significant injury.  Generally it involves homebrew high-voltage mods made out of flashlight bodies (and it's been seen in the light-hounds community as well).  In essence, when you jam two small batteries into a body designed for 1 large one, and you hermetically seal the case, you can get a compromised cell that starts outgassing, which leads to a pressure buildup in the case, which increases temperature, which means more gassing....  You wind up with the equivalent of an M80 going off in your hand.

--Dave

Okay.  I'll bite.  Why do you need to do a homebrew high-voltage mod? 


Engels-  Maybe I'm unreasonable, but I don't want my iPhone blowing up in my hand.  When it does, I'm going to be super pissed off.

[Engels]

E-cigs cater to people who love to tinker. Homebrewing your kit is an attempt to get the kind of vapor you like.

Essentially e-cigs are based on heating elements heated through resistance.  You jimmy with voltages and ohms and what not to maximize both battery life and the heat of the heating element.

TBH, there's commercially available products out there that give plenty of vapor and it just boils down to people liking to tinker.

In the news report, however, there's a strong inference that the e-cig used was a cheap 7-11 variety of disposable e-cig that lasts a few days. 'Real' e-cigs don't really try to look like cigarettes.

Also, ghost, you'll be happy to know that ever since I switched from cigarettes to e-cigs 3 months ago, my teeth are WAY cleaner. No stains!

[ghost]

That does make me way happier.  I wish that everyone would quit smoking, and if that means switching to e-cigarettes, so be it.  

So keep it up!  Good job!

[Hoax]

I see a lot of the ones that look like a cig but have a blue light on the tip, or it may be that the blue light just makes me notice them more.

[MahrinSkel]

A lot of people move away from the ones that look like cigarettes because they get hassled in no-smoking zones.  I get "What the hell was that?" looks on occasion, but the E-Power doesn't look at all like a cigarette so it's rare for anyone to make an issue of it.  Except for one lady who was convinced I was "cheating", because obviously the purpose of no-smoking bans was to make sure that anyone who used nicotine in those areas stuck to chewing tobacco, like God intended (yes, she actually used those words with a straight face).

--Dave

[ghost]

You should have made her show you the relevant passage in the bible.

[Der Helm]

You should have made her show you the relevant passage in the bible.

Don't joke about stuff like this, there probably is one.

[stray]

/bump

Never did take this thread seriously before, but I'm a heavy smoker. I am sold now though. Might be a fun hobby too to screw around and build my own shit. Right now, I'm using V2 stuff, which is good... I really like the power cig. It's even better than smoking real cigs. I think.... If only you could get this kind of vaper in a portable.

[MahrinSkel]

I'll pretty much guarantee that any "Big Batt" model (Ego, Riva, E-Power) with a Dual Coil Cartomizer will perform comparably to that direct-drive disposable cartomizer model, without being tethered.

--Dave

[stray]

I'll pretty much guarantee that any "Big Batt" model (Ego, Riva, E-Power) with a Dual Coil Cartomizer will perform comparably to that direct-drive disposable cartomizer model, without being tethered.

--Dave

I can only find the specs on the Ego. Are they all the same? It says 3.7 volt. The V2 power cig is 5 volts.

edit: wait, don't know much about cartomizers. dual coil.. is that twice the strength?

Sorry, I'm a newb.

[Engels]

Don't feel bad, the whole danged nascent industry is rife with mixed terms. There's the compatibility with batteries to worry about, which isn't only about voltages, but also about the socket types. The EGO socket seems to be the same as the 510 battery type, but certain cartomizers/atomizers will not work with one or the other and its a danged mess for reasons that are sometimes related to the build of the cartomizer and sometimes to do with the voltage.

From what I have gathered, a cartomizer is the kind that has both the fluid and the atomizing heating element in the same contraption, while atomizers are the ones which are only the heating element thingie, with the nicotine fluid 'receptacle' separate.

Dual coil references the fact that the cartomizer has two heating elements, normally simple wires that are coiled up and 'heat', like a miniature hair dryer, which in turn atomizes the liquid, turning it into 'vapor'.

[MahrinSkel]

I'll pretty much guarantee that any "Big Batt" model (Ego, Riva, E-Power) with a Dual Coil Cartomizer will perform comparably to that direct-drive disposable cartomizer model, without being tethered.

--Dave

I can only find the specs on the Ego. Are they all the same? It says 3.7 volt. The V2 power cig is 5 volts.

edit: wait, don't know much about cartomizers. dual coil.. is that twice the strength?

Sorry, I'm a newb.

Okay, there are two factors on vapor output: Total wattage, and element temperature.  If you take a normal 3 ohm element and pump 5 volts through it, you've got 8 watts worth of heat energy vaporizing the solution, but you've got a very high temperature on the element (if it weren't cooled by the solution, it would top 1200 degrees and might even melt the nichrome alloy the coil is made of).  It tends to make for a very hot vape, and flavors can come out feeling "scorched.  You also tend to burn out/crust up atomizers faster that way, which is why the disposable cartomizers are popular with them (they're cheap, and they aren't intended to be used long enough for the durability issues to come up).

Old-school atomizers have the nichrome element atomizer separated from the fiber material that holds the liquid, which is in a cartridge.  Cartomizers combine them into one unit.  Disposables are just that, but not all cartomizers are disposable.  In a "dual coil cartomizer", you have two 3 ohm coils in parallel (which means 1.5 overall resistance), driven by a 3.7V battery (generally a "Big Batt" meaning large enough to supply 2+ amps without damaging the cell, 1000 mAh or more).  You wind up with about 9 watts of vapor production but with a much lower coil temp.  There are also high-resistance versions designed for high voltage, but we'll skip that for now.

The point is, my E-Power with DCC's (Dual Coil Cartomizers) puts out at least as much vapor as your rig (probably significantly more, since less of it is turned to gas).  Now, I have to load my own cartomizers with liquid (cheaper, but a potential safety issue), and there is some maintenance (cleaning and drying), but I do that mostly to make it cheaper, I'm paying about $15/month to replace a $150/month smoking habit (including the amortized cost of my gear, liquid, and replacement parts).

Then there's the completely DIY "homebrew" stuff I make.  My variable-voltage flat-pack based rig can produce 24 watts worth of high-temp vapor, which is a little insane.  But it's finicky, awkward to use in public, and would never make it through airport security.

--Dave

EDIT: Compatibility issues are why I went with the E-Power, it uses standard 14650 cells I can buy from anywhere for $5 (well, online from several different vendors and three different manufacturers, I can't pick them up at Walmart) and can use any 510 connector based cartomizer/atomizer (although for some it would need an extender to get around physical fit issues) but also has a form-fitting DCC that costs $3/each (I use up about 2 a month).  Ego's and their knockoffs are functionally almost identical except that the batteries are specific to each and generally cost $15-20 each (because they include the switch, the E-Power has a separate switch module).  Batteries last 3-6 months, and you need at least 2 (one to use and one to charge, I have 3 so I can leave the house with a fresh one and a spare, with no worries of running out that day).

[Furiously]

I was talking with Engles a couple nights ago how it amazes me how the prices on E-cigs has dropped by about half in the last year.

It really encourages you to try out the different vaping systems. I love the Ego style batteries with their 600-1100 mamp's of power that last for a couple days. I've had way too many leaking problems with the Ego-T though. The Cartomizers seem fairly nice but I really like the amount of vapor I get from the 510 low resistance atomizers.  It's pretty interesting to see capitalism at work as different people make different "systems" to compete for my money.  I'm sure in two years or so just before they get outlawed it's going to be amazing!

[MahrinSkel]

I was talking with Engles a couple nights ago how it amazes me how the prices on E-cigs has dropped by about half in the last year.

It really encourages you to try out the different vaping systems. I love the Ego style batteries with their 600-1100 mamp's of power that last for a couple days. I've had way too many leaking problems with the Ego-T though. The Cartomizers seem fairly nice but I really like the amount of vapor I get from the 510 low resistance atomizers.  It's pretty interesting to see capitalism at work as different people make different "systems" to compete for my money.  I'm sure in two years or so just before they get outlawed it's going to be amazing!

If you're already using the Ego, try something like this (not a vendor I have used but they have a decent reputation and were the first link to come up, you can check around).  Holds as much as the Ego-T tanks, but without the flooding/leaking problems.  You *can* flood them and make them leak, but it's really simple: If it gurgles when you draw after reloading, unscrew it and blow firmly into a sink or paper towel.

I find that I can make it almost all day with two freshly loaded DCC's (as in morning to night, making it through a workday is easy) and a spare battery, although the E-Power's are just a little bigger than the Ego's.  Going from a LR atomizer at 3.7V to a DCC, you'll probably find it makes more vapor and it's cooler (less throat hit but more nicotine absorbed).

--Dave

[stray]

I'm sure in two years or so just before they get outlawed it's going to be amazing!

Man, don't say that.

I better try to make as much use of this so I can ween off of real cigs. There isn't a better alternative atm, and there won't be later.

Also, I think I should find a random "lifestyle cop" and beat the shit out of them.

[stray]

lol I sound like such a newb above.  I've gone crazy in the world of vaping since. Quit smoking too.

My need for power as I mentioned above led me to experimenting with more mods. Unfortunately, I'm starting to rely on CE3 clearomizers, which suck at high voltages.. but these are a great method for juicing. So I'm back at 3.7v.

[schild]

I'm bumping this to say I've basically kicked the cig habit through, ahem, vaping. Which is still a shitty verb.

The industry has gotten weird since Nerf delivered his homebrew direct drip bridged atomizer usb frankenstein thing into my hands in like 2008 or something.

California is obsessed with overpriced Filipino shit. There are mods that go for triple/quadruple what they are at retail on the auction market. Oh, and the industry fucking EXPLODED. Austin went from zero vape shops to 7 in the span of a year. They're all shitty, selling cloned Chinese shit. Texas is basically a hotbed for weird trash-types switching to vaping. In fact, I see more white trash making the logically-sound-for-their-health switch than I do hipsters. Which seems odd to me since a hipster can get 24k gold plated bizarre fucking mods that would fit their lifestyle better than goddamn Lucky Strikes.

ANYWAY. Vaping has gotten pretty high-tech (compared to what it used to be). CE3 clearomizers are basically shit these days. Kanger has done a pretty good job of wrecking the clearo industry with the Protank (it's Pyrex and Aluminum so it won't break under the strain of citrus or menthol liquids) and EVOD (like the protank, but plastic... and not an overly huge thing - it fits on top of an Ego Twist). Innokin is getting some traction with their double coil iClear 30 and 16s, but they are balls out ugly with their tanks (whereas Kanger tries to be... reasonably tasteful).

Anyway, billion dollar industry. Nerf should've rode that wave. Hell, he could've been way ahead of things with just boutique bullshit liquids (which go for 15ml for $16 from some companies).

Oh, and Big Tobacco is making serious plays in the space because they're about to get fucked by a literal fat guy in an overcoat (has anyone seen the douches that run the shops in SOCAL, oof).

Edit: Also, delving into the world of mods will get you the equivalent education in EE that you'd get a shitty college in Bumfuck, FlyOverState - so there's that I guess.

[MahrinSkel]

I've moved to an 18650 Ego-compatible using Ego DCC's, still mixing my own fluids from Lor-Ann flavors.  The e-cigs haven't caught on in San Diego yet from what I have seen, people know what it is but I don't see a lot of others.

Oddly enough, the Blu packs were really popular in the midwest (owned by one of the tobacco companies, I forget which).  There's really a major market split between the people who want something cheaper than analog, and people who don't mind the expens and expect to drop the same $1800 a year tobacco costs.

--Dave

[schild]

In San Diego you have Armory Vape, which is another "we only carry Chinese shit" store. Liberty Flights which carries Radiator Pluid (http://www.liberty-flights.com/information.asp?action=contact) - I don't know if they have a B&M location. Vaperoo, which has some of the best liquids imaginable (but pricey) - https://www.facebook.com/VaperooSanDiego - oh, they also carry all of the "high-end" gear.

Honestly, the entire California "scene" is ABSURD compared to the rest of America. From SoCal to the North Bay area, you can basically get fucking everything. Every city has multiple major stores, and nearly all the major juice brewers are out there.

The entire scene is full of people that would be slinging weed behind high schools if vaping hadn't become a thing though. The people involved are just completely fucking unlikable.

Edit: As a pack a day smoker for 9 years (so, $2555 a year), even if I jumped in and bought $1k in high end Mods @  $200 a piece, and a few pricey atomizers (Kayfun @ $150, etc), I'd still be hard pressed to hit $2555. And all that shit would last me through the next year also. And the year after that. Then after that year too.

[Engels]

Hmm, I use CE5s and the store I normally use, myfreedomsmokes, is often sold out. I like CE5s just cuz they don't look like you're smoking crack.

[apocrypha]

Quick question to those of you who've given up smoking tobacco thanks to vaping. Do you eventually plan or hope to give up nicotine completely at some point or are you comfortable with continuing using ecigs?

I honestly have no idea what the health effects of vaping are, although I'm sure tobacco is much, much more harmful, whatever they are!

It's a genuine question, I'm not making any kind of judgement whatsoever, I'm interested to know if the growth of ecigs is likely to end up with far lower nicotine & tobacco usage in the long term, if it's easier to give up tobacco by using ecigs as an intermediary, etc.

[schild]

I have gone from 24mg nicotine down to 6-16mg (depends on what device I'm on, as some are far more efficient than others).

The health effects of vaping thus far have been:
1. I quit smoking.
2. Senses of smell & taste seems to be restored.
3. I can exercise for a long time without getting beat to shit purely by my lungs falling apart under pressure.

I went through full cigarette withdrawal when I switched to ecigs, and it was gross.

I could *NOT* have quit without ecigs. But with them, I effectively quit cold turkey (as in, I got my ecigs on a tuesday and quit that tuesday - started with an ego twist with a vivi nova). Now that studies are coming out that say nicotine has no adverse effect on the heart (or body) and there's nothing that causes cell death or damage in good quality ejuice, I can't with 100% certainty say I'll ever quit. I play competitive games and nicotine is a wonder drug for that.