Hello?.....

[Kageru]

Of course they're repetitious. These games are expected to last for months to years. It's simply not possible to generate enough content that you can have constant novelty and those sort of durations. The trick is stretching out the content you have without diluting the fun too much.

[Margalis]

Of course they're repetitious. These games are expected to last for months to years. It's simply not possible to generate enough content that you can have constant novelty and those sort of durations. The trick is stretching out the content you have without diluting the fun too much.

Content is only part of the answer. There are many games that are very low on the content scale (any sports game, any fighting game) but can be played for long periods of time. Once you play a game of video football for example you've seen basically all the content - all that's left is different stadium graphics, different stats on some guys, etc.

Challenge, skill and competition are all ways to stretch a game without relying on content.

[Righ]

I'm still waiting for the content publish for chess.

[Margalis]

I'm still waiting for the content publish for chess.

That was Battle Chess, and it came out 15 years ago or so :)

[Alkiera]

Of course they're repetitious. These games are expected to last for months to years. It's simply not possible to generate enough content that you can have constant novelty and those sort of durations. The trick is stretching out the content you have without diluting the fun too much.

Content is only part of the answer. There are many games that are very low on the content scale (any sports game, any fighting game) but can be played for long periods of time. Once you play a game of video football for example you've seen basically all the content - all that's left is different stadium graphics, different stats on some guys, etc.

Challenge, skill and competition are all ways to stretch a game without relying on content.

I'd argue that football is at least as repetitive as MMOG combat...  Soloing in most MMOGs is a matter of pulling a single enemy, and pressing the winning sequence of attacks and hoping to not miss/get resisted.  The average offense play in football requires that you get the ball to the quarterback, and then have him either throw it to a guy who tries to run, or hand it to a guy who tries to run.  On defense, you're just trying to stop all this throwing and running.  Really, how is this different?

You might say that football offers different 'plays' and teams have different play choices...  but there are generally several different mob AIs, as fighter mobs and rogue mobs are fairly similar, but with a few differences, while fighting priest mobs or mage mobs is rather different both from each other and from the melee types.  And while MMOs label the different types, you can also predict what kind of plays a given team is going to use.

Really, it's not different.  Having a star player pull a hamstring and miss a few games?  Gee, sounds like stat loss/exp debt, you're not as good while you've got it, and only time will get rid of it... at least in RPGs it only happens when you lose badly.

Fun is largely attitude and expectations.  If you go into it thinking, 'Gee, this should provide endless orgasmic pleasure, even tho I know games of type are generally repetitive and make me want to pierce myself with an icepick' you really are not going to have fun.  The fact that people here seem to try to play these games as soloists probably doesn't help... it's like firing up a CounterStrike server and logging into it with no other players...  Without the other people, the point of the game is kinda missing.  Unreal Tournament has had bots for ages, but the game 'solo' with bots isn't nearly the fun it is with other real players.

Alkiera

[Margalis]

In football you have maybe 15 or so formations and each one has a dozen plays or so. Then there is the whole 2 player aspect. Football against the computer often is just about exploiting the AI. (Same with fighting games) But add in another player and suddenly you have a lot of depth.

[Alkiera]

Whereas, when you add a second player to an MMOG, assuming they aren't the same class as you, you get an entirely new set of abilities, which lets you take on additional challenges.  How you conquer those challenges varies based on the classes of the group members.  If you have a tank and a healer, it's pretty straightforward.  Similar if you have tank and rogue.  But rogue/healer groups are doable, and mage/rogue groups have ways of killing things that require the players to be a bit inventive.

Really, adding humans to any game increases the fun, and often the complexity.

Alkiera

[Murgos]

I'd argue that sex is pretty damn repetitive - that doesn't stop most people from wanting to do it over and over again and yet still enjoying it.

[SirBruce]

I'd argue that sex is pretty damn repetitive - that doesn't stop most people from wanting to do it over and over again and yet still enjoying it.

Thanks to millions of years of evolution in design.  Give computer game designers a little more time.

Bruce

[Margalis]

Whereas, when you add a second player to an MMOG, assuming they aren't the same class as you, you get an entirely new set of abilities, which lets you take on additional challenges.  How you conquer those challenges varies based on the classes of the group members.  If you have a tank and a healer, it's pretty straightforward.  Similar if you have tank and rogue.  But rogue/healer groups are doable, and mage/rogue groups have ways of killing things that require the players to be a bit inventive.

Really, adding humans to any game increases the fun, and often the complexity.

But the second player in football or chess is competitive. The second player in a group is still just fighting the same AI the single player was. An opponent that can react intelligently to different situations adds a ton of depth. Another team-mate to gang bang the computer with does not add nearly as much.

You might conclude that PvP could then be a way to extend life without content. I would say that is true, depending on the nature of PvP in the game.

[Murgos]

I'd argue that sex is pretty damn repetitive - that doesn't stop most people from wanting to do it over and over again and yet still enjoying it.

Thanks to millions of years of evolution in design.  Give computer game designers a little more time.

Bruce

Err, my point was just saying some thing has repetition doesn't mean it's not enjoyable.