Neverwinter Nights Online. (Cryptic Studios)

[Sjofn]

Apparently the upcoming 5th ed is more of a return to traditional D&D but using only additives instead of trying to explain THAC0 to people scared of negative numbers.

I'm not usually a negative nancy about stuff like this, but I am pretty sure 5th edition is going to suck nut. Also, THAC0 was stupid and it was good they ditched it when they made 3rd edition. 

[Ingmar]

Everyone always makes the wrong comparison, IMO. If there's an MMO that 4e D&D is mechanically similar to, it is GW1.

[Cadaverine]

I'm playing on Mindflayer, Vanja/Xanja Trask@cadaverine. 

Also, Zetor's Foundry adventure is well worth playing, if you haven't tried it already.

[Goumindong]

DnD 4e doesn't have any similar MMO's because there are no MMOs which have a focus on positioning and displacement abilities. There are also no sequentially turn based MMO's either so there is also that.

The move away from the retarded design of 3 into giving classes "roles" was ace because players ended up with roles anyway (If you think that DPS/Tank/Healer came from MMO's then well, you're dumb, it came from old PnP games) and solidifying them made choices easier while ensuring that "roles" were filled and not just by another wizard.

The action and ability economy was more or less perfect. The ability to expend all of your resources in a single fight in other editions makes designing encounters difficult for the GM both because you need to predict when the group has rested and whether or not they will rest at the end of the fight. At upper levels the game changing abilities that wizards had made. By enforcing that all players always had something to do this reduces the burden on the DM in designing encounters

DnD 4e, while imperfect*, is vastly superior to every other DnD system which has come before it (and likely 5 as well) in both its ability to provide fun combat and the ability to manage non-combat encounters

*Dwarfs are OP. Strictly speaking save vs being knocked over is way too strong, reducing the effect of pushes is even stronger, and then to top that all off you got an action economy boost from the minor action self heal and the best feats in the game. Fighters were clearly best defenders since they were the only defender with the ability to hamper enemy movement as a passive ability. Defenses and attack scale too disparately such that the old problem in 3e of "If i never hit player 1 i can still always hit player 2" comes back in and players need raw stat feats in order to stay competitive. Also there was all that shit they did to change it to be more like 3e after idiots complained it was too much like an MMO


I am currently downloading and will see if the game lets me play (it thinks I am behind an open proxy)

[Numtini]

Pen and paper reached its apogee with Runequest 2.

[Malakili]

It's basis is 4th ed D&D.  Back when that book was released the kick-around discussion had here was it looked like a good rule basis for a computer game but a horrible one for P&P.   Seemed to be the consensus during the beta discussions that cropped-up in Neverwinter, too. 

Apparently the upcoming 5th ed is more of a return to traditional D&D but using only additives instead of trying to explain THAC0 to people scared of negative numbers.

THAC0 hasn't been part of D&D since the 90s.  I mean it isn't like they skipped from AD&D to 4th.  I guess my point is that 3rd wasn't so bad and I don't know why they felt like they needed something so drastically different in the first place.  5th reads to me like "Oops, we went too far with 4th, now to bring you 3.75."  Not that it is a bad thing.

[Signe]

I've played DDO but I don't remember how much I did or didn't like it.  I remember thinking it would be fun if you had a group and met once every week or so.  But that didn't happen because we're Bat Country and we're fickle.  I've never played D&D table game, but I do like this NWN... when it's performance doesn't drive me mad.

[Goreschach]

I've played DDO but I don't remember how much I did or didn't like it.  I remember thinking it would be fun if you had a group and met once every week or so.  But that didn't happen because we're Bat Country and we're fickle.  I've never played D&D table game, but I do like this NWN... when it's performance doesn't drive me mad.

DDO was great for what it was. If anything, it was several years before it's time, and came out when people were still of the big world, big sub mindset. It was one of the most successful f2p transitions because it was a precursor to what modern mmo's are just now becoming.

[Fabricated]

Patcher can't update. Ah well.

[Ginaz]

Patcher can't update. Ah well.

Same here and the Neverwinter forums seem to be down, too.

[Threash]

Apparently STO is down also.  Maybe they forgot to pay for bandwidth :P

[bhodi]

I have to say, this game is pretty good. People are saying it's buggy, but so far I have nothing but a positive experience.

It's still a MMO, with MMO trappings, but it's done well.  It's WAY more fun than warframe to me. The "honeymoon" period is, so far, better than guild wars 2.

I think the foundry (ability for people to create their own dungeons/adventures) is going to be where the juice is 6 months down the road. Assuming they can iron out/revamp the rating/searching.

[Phred]

I tried the first dungeon today, in a random pickup group (they launched with a working very good dungeon finder. See other mmo's it's not that fucking hard) I liked the dungeon. A good mix of trash and elite mobs so you didn't get bored with endless packs of 2 trash mobs 2 elites or some cliched design. Overall I'd rate their intro dungeon 4 stars. (1 off cause nothing was in the final chest.) Also I am loving skirmish modes. You join, get put in a group with 4 random ppl and kill waves of mobs for a while while the loot rains from the sky. What's not to like. Do it while a skirmish event is up and you either get an exp boost or a bunch of diamonds. The systems are a lot like the ones in Forsaken World which a friend forced me to play for a while so it's not too confusing but I like the combat system way better than typical perfect world stuff. The tab modifier is kind of unique and adds an interesting take where it works on a few classes. Not however on the control wizard where they obviously ran out of ideas and it merely gets you an extra spell slot. Tanking with the guardian warrior is fun with this system, imo, with just enough skill not to feel like a face roll.

[Stormwaltz]

I have to say, this game is pretty good. People are saying it's buggy, but so far I have nothing but a positive experience.

The only outright bug I've seen was an official dungeon with a crafting node stuck behind one of the invisible walls they use to keep people away from problematic physics.

Since I didn't notice anyone else mention it, I also feel obliged to point out that queues went away on the second day of beta. Credit where it's due and whatnot.

EDIT: Of course, immediately after I post this, I find myself unable to connect to the login server. 

[Goumindong]

It's basis is 4th ed D&D.  Back when that book was released the kick-around discussion had here was it looked like a good rule basis for a computer game but a horrible one for P&P.   Seemed to be the consensus during the beta discussions that cropped-up in Neverwinter, too. 

Apparently the upcoming 5th ed is more of a return to traditional D&D but using only additives instead of trying to explain THAC0 to people scared of negative numbers.

THAC0 hasn't been part of D&D since the 90s.  I mean it isn't like they skipped from AD&D to 4th.  I guess my point is that 3rd wasn't so bad and I don't know why they felt like they needed something so drastically different in the first place.  5th reads to me like "Oops, we went too far with 4th, now to bring you 3.75."  Not that it is a bad thing.

The short answer is that 3rd was that bad but we didn't see it because there wasn't much else that was better. 4th is leaps and bounds above it

[Ashamanchill]

Well see, now I've lost all respect for you as a person Goum.

[Ingmar]

It's all down to what you want from your experience at the table. 4e is the best tactical combat game out of all the editions, full stop, and it's by far the easiest to DM. What it doesn't have is rich, granular character creation/advancement and that's the sticking point for most people who I know.

[Nija]

The game may or may not be buggy. Their infrastructure sure as fuck is.

I can't log in to my account. I reset the password and then i can't use it right after resetting it. I am able to see what my account name is and check that through the site.

I can't even make a new account with another email and a new account name and everything.

Complete balls, it's been like this for like the past 3 hours.

[Ingmar]

I just created an account fine while you were posting that, interesting. They're apparently undergoing extended maintenance right now, though, so that might be behind some of your issues.

[Phred]

Ya if you look in the top left corner of the patcher there's a little button that turns red when the servers are down. Sadly it reports your usename/password invalid when it can't confirm a login which is sloppy programming. So if the server status is red don't even bother trying to log in.

[koro]

Ya if you look in the top left corner of the patcher there's a little button that turns red when the servers are down. Sadly it reports your usename/password invalid when it can't confirm a login which is sloppy programming. So if the server status is red don't even bother trying to log in.

Funnily enough, the server status is red right now on the launcher, yet the game is working.

[Goumindong]

What it doesn't have is rich, granular character creation/advancement and that's the sticking point for most people who I know.

Yes but that is what roleplaying is for.

What server are we all on? Mindflayer?

[Phred]

I'm on Beholder. Don't know where everyone else was. I only picked it because it had slightly lower queues when they existed.

[Sjofn]

What it doesn't have is rich, granular character creation/advancement and that's the sticking point for most people who I know.

Yes but that is what roleplaying is for.

Some people like to see that reflected on their sheet, though. Although I found it easier to build special snowflakes that still functioned in 4E than in the other editions I've played. Still, it's all well and good to handwave and say, "Well, roleplaying" but I think that's a bit of a cop-out. The classes in 4E start to feel really, really samey, and I can see why that grates on some people.

However, the people who act like 4E is worse than Hitler need to relax. :P

[Ingmar]

I made my dude on Mindflayer. Game is rubberbanding like CRAZY with Sjofn downloading her copy, seems a lot more sensitive to network traffic than other MMOs I play.

[ezrast]

The game may or may not be buggy. Their infrastructure sure as fuck is.

I can't log in to my account. I reset the password and then i can't use it right after resetting it. I am able to see what my account name is and check that through the site.

I can't even make a new account with another email and a new account name and everything.

Complete balls, it's been like this for like the past 3 hours.

I did the exact same thing today (minus trying to make a new account; I can't muster that much effort for some reason), so it's not just you. Wouldn't let me into the website. No idea what the client would have said since I just now realized that you can download it without being logged in.

[Ironwood]

I have to say, this game is pretty good. People are saying it's buggy, but so far I have nothing but a positive experience.

It's still a MMO, with MMO trappings, but it's done well.  It's WAY more fun than warframe to me. The "honeymoon" period is, so far, better than guild wars 2.

I think the foundry (ability for people to create their own dungeons/adventures) is going to be where the juice is 6 months down the road. Assuming they can iron out/revamp the rating/searching.

Pretty much this.

I still don't think it's very D&D, but I'm old, so what do I know. 

Voice acting is, however, fucking woeful.  The Dwarf particularly fucked me off.  I wonder how you people react to actual Scottish people.

[Bzalthek]

We love them and hug them and call them George.

[Modern Angel]

We wonder why they're not shorter.

[Nija]

I did the exact same thing today (minus trying to make a new account; I can't muster that much effort for some reason), so it's not just you. Wouldn't let me into the website. No idea what the client would have said since I just now realized that you can download it without being logged in.

I had a hunch that was later confirmed in this thread. It says incorrect password when it can't authenticate at all. I did successfully reset my password - it just didn't work at all on the site.

If you put that user/pass into the game it works fine. This was after the emergency maintenance at least.

[bhodi]

Apparently they had an "unexpected hardware failure" last night. I think some network gear failed, causing it to be down. I know the outage affected both STO and Champions as well.

The voice acting is beyond awful; it's so bad, it's wrapped back into funny/amusing.

[Lantyssa]

Voice acting is, however, fucking woeful.  The Dwarf particularly fucked me off.  I wonder how you people react to actual Scottish people.

By wondering why they're not talking so funny?

[Signe]

I don't react to Scottish people at all.  I try to hide in the shadows and stay perfectly still until the smell of something deep frying distracts them.  Then I run away. 

I do have to say, though.  Glasgow has some of the friendliest junkies I've ever met.

[Ironwood]

Did you see the recent report about Glasgow being pretty much the hive of scum and villiany of Europe ?  I was upset at that.  I've been to Naples.

[Pezzle]

This game is terrible.

First, accept that it has almost nothing to do with D&D, Forgotten Realms or 4E.  You will be awash in names that might sound familiar, but it is at best a casual resemblance.  

Do not bother playing around with 'rolling' your stats much.  It looks like what they are rolling is predetermined arrays.  Abandon your notion of what stats do, this is an mmo.  I started with 12 con and over 600 hp.  Your at will powers are the left and right spambuttons, encounter powers have a few seconds cooldown and you can use your daily powers once you kill enough stuff to charge your 'action point' meter.  It is all reflavored generic mmo invest point for 2% increase in whatever.  

Ok, enough ranting about the non D&D.  It is wretched without the window dressing.

I made a 'trickster' rogue.  The very first thing I notice is the controls are awful.  Sure, I can spin around with my mouse but you cannot click screen objects because mouse keys  are attacks.  In order to enable a mouse cursor (so you can hover it over all the strange new things on screen for tooltips) you have to hit alt, which takes you totally out of the action portion of the game.  What the fuck.  So I remap nearly everything, talk to some dude and start smashing skeletons.  Hey this is fine, but I do not feel like a rogue or thief or whatever you want to call it.  Call me melee dps?  The game holds your hand while they explain different varieties of powers and looting etc.  I see all this mention of stealth.  Hey, that might cheer me up!  I am a rogue, how do I stealth??  I want to stab something in the neck while stealthing!  Hmm, I cannot figure out how to stealth.  I see references to it in my powers.  I see upgrades to it in my talent trees.  I have bonuses to movement and damage when stealthed.  GIVE ME STEALTH!  Hitting buttons.. no stealth.  Looking in help, no help.  Looking online.  You get it early on in the game.  NOT HELPFUL.  

Fine, I will go do a mission.  Melee damage choo choo.  Throw some daggers.  Hmm, could I use a ranged weapon instead of slashing somethings face?  Will have to look for a crossbow later.  Nodes that require skills?  Where do I get skills?  What is a 'kit'?  Found a nature kit.  Not sure where it went in my inventory.  Is there a button that opens my equipment and inventory at the same time?  No dungeoneering?  I am a DWARF!  I do not remember picking skills?  Why do I not have the dungeoneering?  I see rogue loot piles.  Get me that sweet rogue loot!  An old shoe?  ...


I have to identify some stuff.  Why?  Ok, I have scrolls for that, but this seems silly.  Oh look, I get to spend an upgrade point now!  I want to upgrade my stealth!  Stealth upgraded!  Maybe now I can use it?  What is this strange locked button on the UI.  a special power?  Is that stealth?  It is tab button, HIT TAB BUTTON.  WHY YOU NO STEALTH??      


So, this game is pretty generic if you take away the names.  I wonder if mages have to buy identify scrolls or they get that convenience as part of making the classes different?  The controls are very awkward for me and I was not captivated by gameplay in the early stages.  I was able to upgrade a skill the game would not let me use.  Can you shut off STO notifications?  I really do not care who is logging in and out of a different game.  I did not see drow on the character creation page.  My local gaming group and I all agree, we want Firaxis to make a D&D game like X-COM.  You could make that mmo style easily enough with random teams or your own adventuring company etc.  Private servers, world servers, you name it.  Characters could walk around and interact, but the fighting would not be actiony.  This game is shit.

Dammit, I miss NWN