"Oh btw, FFXIV Online in 2010"

[Numtini]

I actually LOVE grouping. What I don't love is waiting for a group that never comes together. If you want to have a game that's heavy on the grouping, you have to have a load of ways to get your people together for a group--LFG channels (EQ2 got this right with global level limited channels), a useful LFG system (FFXI's was useless), etc.

[Falconeer]

So, here it comes the WoW killer.

[Draegan]

So, here it comes the WoW killer.

You had to say it didn't you?  It'll be successful if, and only if, it adapts the philosophy of WOW.. which was "Is it fun?"

[Falconeer]

Out of curiousity, cause I can't remember very well: does anyone here rember if Final Fantasy XI was the MMORPG with the most subs before WoW, or am I just making stuff out? Same, am I wrong or it got the lead by passing and leaving behind the original EverQuest?

These are honest questions, I am not necessarily looking for a pattern. I just remember FFXI being extremely and unreasonably succesful when it first came out, and Squeenix knows a thing or two about polish.

[Numtini]

Out of curiousity, cause I can't remember very well: does anyone here rember if Final Fantasy XI was the MMORPG with the most subs before WoW, or am I just making stuff out? Same, am I wrong or it got the lead by passing and leaving behind the original EverQuest?

Yes, it had 500k active subs beating EQ1's 450k.

[Falconeer]

Out of curiousity, cause I can't remember very well: does anyone here rember if Final Fantasy XI was the MMORPG with the most subs before WoW, or am I just making stuff out? Same, am I wrong or it got the lead by passing and leaving behind the original EverQuest?

Yes, it had 500k active subs beating EQ1's 450k.

Well, whatever it means, that's an often overlooked feat...

[Delmania]

I suppose I can agree with people here.  FFXI would have been a lot more fun had I a static party with a set time to log in and level up and quest together with.  Th problems I had was that soloing to advance your character for things like tradeskills and money was very painful and time consuming.

[Tige]

FFXI was a great game provided you had a static LS and Group options.  Combat mechanics within a well balanced group were fun.  Unfortunately, if you did not fit into this small, difficult to achieve portion of the game, it was misery.  Pick up groups usually resulted in a step or two backwards with the vicious death penalty. There was only so much fishing and crafting you could do before you ran out of cash and patience.

Fortunately we had a good LS formed from the old WT (hey Numtini) but most of burned out around the mid 60's levels.  I was broken after that FFXI run.  I haven't been able to stay with a MMO for more than a month or two since.

Here's to hoping 14 addresses the pain. 

[Lantyssa]

The thing is it should be clearly and far and away superior to group to get things done.

That depends entirely on whether they like money hats or not.

[Numtini]

I think the entire paradigm of overground/quest/solo and dungeon/instanced/group works really well for everybody.

[koro]

According to Square's ongoing press thing, they're wanting to focus more on solo content, so there is that, I guess. We'll see come beta, I suppose.

[Cyrrex]

Considering that all Single Player versions of the FF series require you to manage 3 or 4 characters during combat, wouldn't it be the easiest thing in the world to simply allow the player to recruit NPCs and allow the player to either directly or indirectly control them?  I assume it isn't turn based combat (never played FFXI) that would allow full control if desired, but if nothing else you could have your team of henchmen.  Certainly not as good as a human group, but likely more viable than leveling solo.

[Quinton]

Oh no.

Oh gods, no.

I wasted so much time playing FFXI.  Yeah, it was a hellish grind in places, but I played with a bunch of good friends and I loved the world design, the big epic mission storyline stuff, etc. 

Haven't played XI in ages, but they've been steadily adding content for solo and smaller groups, etc, so if the same people are involved in this it's possible they'll learn a bit from the good and bad of FFXI and make something pretty slick.

I both look forward to and dread this.

[tmp]

from the conference thing:

Another very important concept that takes a different direction from FFXI, for FFXIV we want to make it so the player can choose to play solo, in a party, 40 minutes, all-day... there will be content for ALL of those play styles and systems for all of those play styles.

Shit. and it launches on PC and in english, too. Might be tempted to check it out, now

[schild]

The presser was just a Q&A about Final Fantasy XIV they added at the last minute.

The only real important thing in it was:

12:26
   A: We will NOT be using PlayOnline, but friend lists will transfer over.

[Draegan]

Here's the whole live feed.  Sorry for the formatting, I'm lazy.

[Lantyssa]

Considering that all Single Player versions of the FF series require you to manage 3 or 4 characters during combat, wouldn't it be the easiest thing in the world to simply allow the player to recruit NPCs and allow the player to either directly or indirectly control them?  I assume it isn't turn based combat (never played FFXI) that would allow full control if desired, but if nothing else you could have your team of henchmen.  Certainly not as good as a human group, but likely more viable than leveling solo.

FFXI with prettier graphics mixed with Guild Wars heroes for when you don't have a full group.  (And less grind, thanks!)  That would be .

[Cyrrex]

Considering that all Single Player versions of the FF series require you to manage 3 or 4 characters during combat, wouldn't it be the easiest thing in the world to simply allow the player to recruit NPCs and allow the player to either directly or indirectly control them?  I assume it isn't turn based combat (never played FFXI) that would allow full control if desired, but if nothing else you could have your team of henchmen.  Certainly not as good as a human group, but likely more viable than leveling solo.

FFXI with prettier graphics mixed with Guild Wars heroes for when you don't have a full group.  (And less grind, thanks!)  That would be .

Yeah, that was my thinking.  And if by some crazy fluke they decide to make it fully turn based, it would be even easier because they could just give you full control.  It'd be like four Lantyssas in a group!

[DLRiley]

Considering that all Single Player versions of the FF series require you to manage 3 or 4 characters during combat, wouldn't it be the easiest thing in the world to simply allow the player to recruit NPCs and allow the player to either directly or indirectly control them?  I assume it isn't turn based combat (never played FFXI) that would allow full control if desired, but if nothing else you could have your team of henchmen.  Certainly not as good as a human group, but likely more viable than leveling solo.

Oh wait you mean...actually learn something from guild wars. I really do hope square is smart enough to learn from a game that over 6 million boxes.

[AutomaticZen]

Final Fantasy XIV for 360 still a possibility.

See, they'd like to clarify yesterday's announcement that the game was "exclusive" to the PS3. It's not. There'll also be a PC version. Following that, however, a carefully-worded statement said "in terms of all other hardware, including Microsoft consoles, we are considering all other options at this time".

Translation:  "We're not making it now, but we do like money."

Either that or it's a timed exclusive.

[Ingmar]

Out of curiousity, cause I can't remember very well: does anyone here rember if Final Fantasy XI was the MMORPG with the most subs before WoW, or am I just making stuff out? Same, am I wrong or it got the lead by passing and leaving behind the original EverQuest?

Yes, it had 500k active subs beating EQ1's 450k.

Well, whatever it means, that's an often overlooked feat...

I haven't gone back to look but I had thought Lineage was the pre-WoW champion.

[schild]

Lineage has always been impossible to actually gauge because of the popularity in South Korea. We can throw numbers around but they'll never be hard numbers. They never were when they claimed to be king either.

[Trippy]

There was nothing wrong with the Lineage numbers. It's a subscription-based game(s) and NCsoft, until recently, diligently included the numbers in their financial reports (they switched to using PCU numbers).

[Numtini]

There was nothing wrong with the Lineage numbers. It's a subscription-based game(s) and NCsoft, until recently, diligently included the numbers in their financial reports (they switched to using PCU numbers).

If I recall Lineage was one subscription = one character and that the Korean accounts were mainly PC bang accounts charged by IP number, not by subscription. Meaning there was no cost for most users to create or maintain one.

[Delmania]

  Q: What influence have games like World of WarCraft have on the development of FFXIV?
12:02
   A: As with WoW, we want to aim a bit for the casual user. However, we don't want to make a copy of WoW. We believe we will have things that are unique and will stand out from that game.

  

As much as I hated having to level them, I thought SE's job/subjob concept was pure awesome.

[LK]

This has me more excited than The Old Republic. Just having one character that can switch seamlessly between different jobs, even if it meant going to Lv. 1, was huge to me. Jedi Powers have been done so many different ways in so many different venues...

I would LOVE to try some of the new stuff they've added in FFXI but the game does not encourage experimentation due to vicious death penalties.

[SnakeCharmer]

  Q: What influence have games like World of WarCraft have on the development of FFXIV?
12:02
   A: As with WoW, we want to aim a bit for the casual user. However, we don't want to make a copy of WoW. We believe we will have things that are unique and will stand out from that game.

  

As much as I hated having to level them, I thought SE's job/subjob concept was pure awesome.

Because no one has ever said that before when talking up their MMO?

[Trippy]

There was nothing wrong with the Lineage numbers. It's a subscription-based game(s) and NCsoft, until recently, diligently included the numbers in their financial reports (they switched to using PCU numbers).

If I recall Lineage was one subscription = one character and that the Korean accounts were mainly PC bang accounts charged by IP number, not by subscription. Meaning there was no cost for most users to create or maintain one.

The players have to buy their own subscriptions, on top of whatever they have to pay to play in a PC baang. The PC baangs may have to pay a licensing fee as well (the game client doesn't cost the players anything) but that's separate from the player subscriptions.

[Tige]

Anything else about the weapons?

The team let slip to us that choosing weapons for specific tasks one day versus another could affect how your character develops.

Weapons affected by weather?

That is the kind of stuff that I really liked in ffxi i.e., harvesting plants on different days yielded different results in product and quality.



Source http://ps3.ign.com/articles/991/991483p1.html

[Delmania]

Because no one has ever said that before when talking up their MMO?

The difference here is that FFXI does have some rather unique elements to it.  I would say it's the fact that your character is extremely flexible.  You can switch your job, subjob, allegiances at will.  Additionally, each expansion pack had elements that were both horizontal and veritical in how they added content.  Chains of Promanthia's introduction was level capped at thirty, and there was content that took you from 30 to 75.  Rise of the Zilart - same thing, only they added new classes on.  Expansions in FFXI are really that - expansions to the world without simply tossing the old ones away.   The problem, as many have echoed here, it's that's a very time consuming game.    I'd be wiling to play it again only if I had a static party.

[Murgos]

The difference here is that FFXI does have some rather unique elements to it. 

Like the extreme size of their grind.  Am I rite? 

[bhodi]

Good parts of ffxi:

* Combat system encourages actual teamwork and timing instead of just people who happen to be attacking the same mob at the same time.
* Job system steps in when you get bored of playing a specific character but don't want to reroll
* Auction house implementation better than any I have seen so far, puts WoW's AH to shame
* A decent LFG system, better than any except the most recent WoW LFG from the latest patch
* Some cool scenery: unique and very, very final fantasy
* Taru /panic
* Fishing while I slept to fund my static party's leveling and the static party itself vastly increased my enjoyment of this game. Yay moat carp!

Bad parts of ffxi:

* All the worst elements of EQ - camp checks, mob trains, unreliable mob strength information, extremely long travel time to get anywhere.
* Enforced "Find-a-quest" minigame by making quest givers look exactly like other NPCs in every city. Also, quests give no experience, only items which may or may not suck
* "Linkpearl" system makes it so you had to juggle different friend groups / channels, and there is no way of knowing who's online without cumbersome "equip" mechanics
* Heavy, almost crippling death penalty - XP loss and develing combined with a gruesome run back can mean hours to crawl your way back up after a bad wipe
* "Bind" system means when you wipe there is a good chance ONE of your group forgot to bind to the nearest stone and is resurrected half way across the world (30m+ away)
* Enforced grouping via being unable to solo, tanks and healers completely mandatory but population imbalance meant if you weren't one of them you have a long LFG wait
* Vulkrum Dunes (purgatory for bad groups and you're forced to go through them every time you level a different class, plus the subjob level quest is here)
* Ridiculously low drop rate on quest items and a complete cockblock quest in order to 'unlock' the next 5 levels past level 50
* 3 month post-subscription character deletion policy ensures you will never go back to see how the game changed, as your character will be gone.
* Cumbersome Playonline system ensures that you get to log in 2 or 3 times before you can actually play the game

I got the impression that the game was basically designed around the bad parts and the good parts were fairly incidental. If they learn from WoW's success and keep the good bits and discard with prejudice the bad bits, I'll at least try it for a few months.

[tmp]

Good parts of ffxi:

* Auction house implementation better than any I have seen so far, puts WoW's AH to shame

The guide makes it sound like you can't even search for items by name or filter down available selection entering level range etc in FFXI AH... if that's the best you've seen, just how many implementations have you seen, out of curiosity..?

[Delmania]

Like the extreme size of their grind.  Am I rite? 

I did say time consuming.  

I got the impression that the game was basically designed around the bad parts and the good parts were fairly incidental

I wouldn't say that.   It was built before WoW was launched and showed how successful a casual friendly game can be.  The clunky UI was there due to the need to support the Playstation 2, something no other MMO did.  However, FFXI was not a Western MMO, but more like Japanese take on EQ, which to that time, was the most successful game around.  Hell, the US release wasn't until about a year after the initial launch and we got RoZ with the base client.  If they take the good part and build it around a more casual friendly game, hell, I think we'd have a good thing going here.  Not a WoW killer, but definitely a good product.

[bhodi]

The guide makes it sound like you can't even search for items by name or filter down available selection entering level range etc in FFXI AH... if that's the best you've seen, just how many implementations have you seen, out of curiosity..?

There was no item level requirements to use items, so there's no need for a range selection. Items were also highlighted and automatically sorted by whether you could use them or not, and by their strength/power, and there weren't all that many items in one category so it was easy to browse. You never needed any sort of 'search' anyway.

The UI was a bit clunky because of it being designed around a controller but it's still nothing like WoW's AH. You could see price history, for one thing. For another, it was an actual bidding process - you put in what you're willing to pay and it takes the lowest seller that meets that threshold and matches you up. It also adds a lot of what auctioneer adds to wow, but built into the actual game.

Oh, also, there was no 'soulbound' so when you got an item upgrade you got to sell your old stuff on the AH.