Consolidated Letdown: E3 2009

[Triforcer]

Thanks a bunch for checking out DCUO Margalis.  That sounds about like what I expected, although I had hoped for more polish 

[Velorath]

The only Bioware I saw on the show floor was a canned presentation of Dragon Age in a screening area, if Mass Effect 2 was there at all it was hiding.

I don't think it was there for hands on play.  Just a presentation.

[Velorath]

Uncharted 2
Graphically this was probably the best game of the show. Great detail in the foregrounds, multiple levels of depth in the background all rendered nicely, great looking sky and smoke. Gameplay-wise it seemed a lot more combat-focused than exploration, even in single player.

The demo is more combat focused because that's the flashiest part to show off.  Apparently they didn't think it would be as exciting to see people just wandering around and exploring.  The ratio of exploration/puzzles to combat is supposed to be the same as it was in the first game, with some new types of puzzles thrown in also.

[Azazel]

Just saw the Natal video linked off of Lum's blog. It's not going to happen. Maybe if it's built into the XBox 3 or 720 or whateverthefuck they end up calling it, but it's not happening this gen aside from some shoveled-out gimmickware. I mean, if pretty much noone but Nintendo can make a half-decent Wiimote game, Natal isn't happening this generation.

[AutomaticZen]

I guess you could call them bigger exclusives but I find it hard to believe that at least Conviction and L4D2 won't sell more on the PC, PARTICULARLY the latter.

L4D on the 360 came in at #7 in the December NPD's with 629,000 and #4 in the January NPD's with 243,000.  It may very well sell more on the PC, but it's still a very strong seller on the 360.  Mass Effect 2 will probably do strong sales on the 360 simply because people like me who went out and bought the first one on 360 rather than wait for a PC version will want to use our saves going into the second one.  Splinter Cell isn't a series I follow at all, but my mind has always connected it with consoles.  I have no idea whether or not the series has a strong following on PC.

I bought the first game twice.  First because I wanted it on 360, and later because I saw the PC rev for $20 in Best Buy.  I did not finish the 360 one.  I beat the PC one and even started a second run through.  Much improved over the 360.  Better graphics, better interface.

Hoping they release the PC same date with the 360 rev.  Doubt it though.

[UnSub]

What impressed me about Splinter Cell: Convinction is how against torture most of us are in Politics, yet those same people drool over the idea of beating information out of characters as a core game play mechanic.

Everything else: I don't believe the hype. 2010 is a long way away for a good number of these titles.

[naum]

Well, it's a pretty big drop. Just under $1500, so basically, it'll cost about the same to make iphone apps soon. Well, THEORETICALLY not counting employees. It's a good price drop.

Uh, no. Not even close.

$99 (a corporate deal is a little more, but really not needed unless you're doing an exchange type app). Price is just to sell in the AppStore. Developer kit and tools are free.

$99 is for the application.
$550-$750 for the mac mini.
$229 for an ipod touch.
Mac OSX + Whatever software you'll use, mostly if you don't already have a mac (like I don't).
On the marketplace you'll be doing your own marketing and shit unless you get tied up with a publisher - with the PSP you HAVE to have a publisher of some sort, there is no app store (so they'll take the cost of that, and most likely burden some of the development).


All told, for a single user at home to make iPhone apps, at the bare minimum on mac hardware, you're looking at $1200-$1500.

The Computer + PSP that make up the PSP dev kit is $1500. An iPhone setup is the closest comparable thing. So uh, yes, very much close.

Um, you already have a Mac or you wouldn't be contemplating developing for it in the first place. In contrast to a PSP where the only reason you have one is to play games…

OK, an iPhone costs $199, slightly more than a PSP?

All the software you need comes bundled with the Mac.

Regarding the marketplace, you don't need a publisher — the AppStore takes care of that for you. You start a blog or tumblr and venture into web spaces where there could be interest in your product and voila…

[Ghambit]

Sony has always been a h8tr when it comes to developing anything on their equipment.  Remember the bitching when the PS3 came out?  (people are still bitching actually)

[schild]

Um, you already have a Mac or you wouldn't be contemplating developing for it in the first place.

What would make you think that?

Regarding the marketplace, you don't need a publisher — the AppStore takes care of that for you. You start a blog or tumblr and venture into web spaces where there could be interest in your product and voila…

I know you don't need a publisher. In fact, I said that:

On the marketplace you'll be doing your own marketing and shit unless you get tied up with a publisher

But some games shop themselves to publishers. There was a pretty decently high profile one recently but the goddamn name is on the tip of my tongue. I think they went with ngmoco.

Anyway, you do need to do your own marketing. Venturing into web spaces where there could be interest in your product - that's called marketing.

In contrast to a PSP where the only reason you have one is to play games…

Unless, you know, you WANT to make games for it.

[Mrbloodworth]

Margalis - Did you play M.A.G? or just pass by it? if you did play it, care to expand?

I hear it was running live, how is matching handled? Some kinf of hub, or your standard lobby? or...something else? Was anyone using a mouse and keyboard?

[fuser]

More than 10,000 people responded. More than 51.9 percent of the respondents said Microsoft bested its competitors. Thirty-four percent of those who answered the poll said Sony had the best announcements. Nintendo finished last, with just 5.6 percent of respondents saying it had the best E3. Ironically, the fourth option--"None of them--they were all yawners"--beat out Nintendo, with 8.4 percent of the vote.

It's a well-deserved victory for Microsoft. At this year's event, the company announced a new, expanded Xbox Live offering for the console, including a new video store with 1080p content. The Xbox 360 will also sport Facebook and Twitter integration.

...

You can say what you want about Microsoft and its Xbox 360. But at this year's E3, it made the competition look foolish. And in the cutthroat business of video games, that's a major victory in and of itself.

Did people watch another presser then we did? Or is Natal that big?

[schild]

Did people watch another presser then we did? Or is Natal that big?

No, hating on Sony is just hip. And I've discovered very personally lately, that the lowest common denominator is far lower than I previously expected.

[AutomaticZen]

More than 10,000 people responded. More than 51.9 percent of the respondents said Microsoft bested its competitors. Thirty-four percent of those who answered the poll said Sony had the best announcements. Nintendo finished last, with just 5.6 percent of respondents saying it had the best E3. Ironically, the fourth option--"None of them--they were all yawners"--beat out Nintendo, with 8.4 percent of the vote.

It's a well-deserved victory for Microsoft. At this year's event, the company announced a new, expanded Xbox Live offering for the console, including a new video store with 1080p content. The Xbox 360 will also sport Facebook and Twitter integration.

...

You can say what you want about Microsoft and its Xbox 360. But at this year's E3, it made the competition look foolish. And in the cutthroat business of video games, that's a major victory in and of itself.

Did people watch another presser then we did? Or is Natal that big?

Ars' poll was about the same, as is most of the other polls I've seen.  Many seem to think Microsoft won out on its E3 presser.

I myself am currently look for a cheap 60GB on Ebay...

[Rasix]

Was it a more cohesive, better flowing presentation?  While delivering the most I'm personally interested, the Sony had several segments all together of stuff I really didn't care about (PSP GO, Home, Dildo). 

I didn't watch the 360 presentation, perhaps I should.  I just don't really even like turning on the sucker.  I hate the UI. I hate the noise.  I hate the fear of RROD.

[fuser]

Was it a more cohesive, better flowing presentation?  While delivering the most I'm personally interested, the Sony had several segments all together of stuff I really didn't care about (PSP GO, Home, Dildo). 

The poor woman trying to explain the facebook app was a trainwreck of stammering and way too long as per most of their segments. Sony's was presentation was tight and pretty fast flowing(finacials/psp go/mod racer went a bit long).

[HaemishM]

How the fuck could anyone be more impressed with the flailing woman and Peter Molyneux's NAMBLA application than the Sony dildo? I mean, I've had a serious mad-on for Sony since the PS3's launch price was so over the top and I am for the first time since release actually wanting a PS3.

[tmp]

Sony's was presentation was tight and pretty fast flowing(finacials/psp go/mod racer went a bit long).

Sony had the Home thing in theirs. and "It's been teh best year ever, our PS2 is outselling PS3" bits. On the other hand, MS had Molyneux so high it's easy to mistake him for a blimp.

Felt pretty much like a tie in the end.

[Ghambit]

E3 is a trade show for the gaming industry, not just some place to show off games.  In those regards, the tech.+games that MS showed either tied or slightly outdid Sony.  That's why people are voting as such.  From a pure GAMING perspective, I can see how Sony would seem the winner with their rapid-fire clean, no-nonsense approach.  Personally, I'm less about the instant gratification and more about long-term tech.  So I just believe MS did a better job;  I'm somewhat a biased perspective though.

I wonder how much console ownership actually played into it.  Most people dont own both consoles therefore one would tend to believe they'd support the console they had at home.  More people own 360 (and PCs) than PS3, but more Wii than both.  Also developers love the Xbox, but generally loathe PS3.  It's only natural the presiding feeling would be that MS won the day... even if Sony was right there with them.

Both MS and Sony are generally hated though; Nintendo shoulda came with the force at E3, but they just sucked.

[Hoax]

I pretty much despise Xbox owners, I'm glad they have a console that easily identifies them as twats.  If you own a Wii or a PS2 your exempt, or if you have upgraded your gaming PC since the 360 came out.  People who bought the xbox and then bought the 360 and declared the console war over?  Fucking idiots, the worst stereotype of American dickbag gamers.  I'm also pretty sure that the fact that there are a ton of them is why any poll about which company "won" e3 is going to have a unrealistic tilt towards Microsoft.

The games I think I'll end up playing on console:
Bayonetta (DMC but your a chick? Moves look even flashier?  Sweet)
Hard Rain (I think I'll try it, could be cool, if Schild if frothing when it releases I'm in)
White Knight (Only because I think its a jrpg where you get to turn into a giant mecha/suit of armor?  Does it have some kind of multiplayer co-op too?)

Everything else sounded like it had aiming and aiming is something I don't do on consoles.  I'm taking recommendations if there is something with no aiming I should watch videos of.

[Pennilenko]

I pretty much despise Xbox owners, I'm glad they have a console that easily identifies them as twats.  If you own a Wii or a PS2 your exempt, or if you have upgraded your gaming PC since the 360 came out.  People who bought the xbox and then bought the 360 and declared the console war over?  Fucking idiots, the worst stereotype of American dickbag gamers.  I'm also pretty sure that the fact that there are a ton of them is why any poll about which company "won" e3 is going to have a unrealistic tilt towards Microsoft.

The games I think I'll end up playing on console:
Bayonetta (DMC but your a chick? Moves look even flashier?  Sweet)
Hard Rain (I think I'll try it, could be cool, if Schild if frothing when it releases I'm in)
White Knight (Only because I think its a jrpg where you get to turn into a giant mecha/suit of armor?  Does it have some kind of multiplayer co-op too?)

Everything else sounded like it had aiming and aiming is something I don't do on consoles.  I'm taking recommendations if there is something with no aiming I should watch videos of.

So I have a 360, but im exempt from being a twat if i regularly upgrade my (primary gamine machine) gaming pc and own a wii? If so cool, im safe from being a twat for now.

[Velorath]

How the fuck could anyone be more impressed with the flailing woman and Peter Molyneux's NAMBLA application than the Sony dildo?

I think it comes down to a lot of people being more impressed with a no controller system rather than one that requires a controller in each hand.  At least that's the impression I got from a lot of the articles I've read.  Also, the Milo stuff is actually pretty cool once you get past all the obvious  jokes.  In particular it's been pointed out that there's a lot of potential for use in RPG's.  Personally I won't care much about Sony or MS's tech demo's until I see games actually utilizing them, and using them well.

[schild]

The PS3 eye already did stuff without a controller. Shit, it's been doing that for years. Maybe it's a matter of people simply being uneducated. The only thing Microsoft added was the face/voice stuff. And even then, Milo was just creepy.

[Velorath]

The PS3 eye already did stuff without a controller. Shit, it's been doing that for years.

There's been other stuff before as well, with Sega's "Activator" peripheral for the Genesis being one of the earliest ones I can remember.  I don't think MS is claiming to be the first to do this kind of thing though, just like Sony wasn't pretending to be the first company to come up with motion sensitive controllers.  It's more a matter of how well they can refine and utilize the technology.

[tmp]

And even then, Milo was just creepy.

Milo just looked to me like Eliza/Alice souped up with facial/shape/voice tone recognition rather than just text input. Totally not seeing what the big deal is supposed to be.

[Velorath]

Milo was just creepy.

Let's not kid ourselves, if Milo had a pet luck dragon and was demoed by Ueda, you'd be all over it.

[schild]

Milo was just creepy.

Let's not kid ourselves, if Milo had a pet luck dragon and was demoed by Ueda, you'd be all over it.

Oh please, you know for a fact I'd want to beat up Ueda for wasting his goddamn time.

[Ard]

I kinda feel that way about Molyneux right now.  I'd probably be more inclined if he'd actually made anything in the last decade that I could play longer than 10 minutes. 

[Velorath]

I kinda feel that way about Molyneux right now.  I'd probably be more inclined if he'd actually made anything in the last decade that I could play longer than 10 minutes. 

Didn't like Fable 2?  Regardless, due to his promotion it seems like we're more likely to see him promoting stuff like this rather than actually working on games himself.

[Ghambit]

The raw facts (regardless of implementation potential):
Eyetoy is just a webcam running gesture recognition software.  It doesnt actually "see" anything but movement; quite literally a glorified motion detector i.e. "Oh, you moved your arms = you hit the ball".  The A.R. wand was done to help fill in the gap for the eyetoy, which is good.  But it's still not anywhere near the same thing as Natal.  The wand is just tracking software for an A.R. symbol (you can make one at home).

Natal takes where/what/how your body is and translates it into a skeletal framework the software interprets as an animation asset, on top of the facial (downright awesome in its own right) and voice recognition (something MS has always been good at).  It literally plugs you entirely into the game.   I'll only interpret this as a "tiny step" in gaming tech.  if the developers dont take full advantage of it, which I'll find hard to believe.  Even if they make a low-res turn-based RPG with it, it's still an awesome achievement.

Ask every developer out there which SDK they'd rather get their hands on (and which box they're most comfortable with), and you'll have your answer as to why the mob thinks MS won the demo war.

[Ard]

Didn't like Fable 2?  Regardless, due to his promotion it seems like we're more likely to see him promoting stuff like this rather than actually working on games himself.

I haven't like a game he's done since Dungeon Keeper, sad as that is.  Everything since then has either been a let down (Black and White), or something I found tedious and boring (Fable).

Given how he's been doing with games for the last 10 years, this is probably a good promotion for him.  Hype is at least something he knows.

[Margalis]

That piece is so weak.

Microsoft is pushing the envelope and taking its business to the next level.

Quite the wordsmith.

[tmp]

The A.R. wand was done to help fill in the gap for the eyetoy, which is good.  But it's still not anywhere near the same thing as Natal.  The wand is just tracking software for an A.R. symbol (you can make one at home).

Now consider what Natal is doing is basically tracking more than just single A.R... and that Sony isn't limiting themselves to the idea of tracking just one point, and the gap shrinks, at least as far as practical applications for gaming go.


(human skeleton is funny, it doesn't take that many points and angles to determine arrangement of the whole thing)

[Ghambit]

The A.R. wand was done to help fill in the gap for the eyetoy, which is good.  But it's still not anywhere near the same thing as Natal.  The wand is just tracking software for an A.R. symbol (you can make one at home).

Now consider what Natal is doing is basically tracking more than just single A.R... and that Sony isn't limiting themselves to the idea of tracking just one point, and the gap shrinks, at least as far as practical applications for gaming go.


(human skeleton is funny, it doesn't take that many points and angles to determine arrangement of the whole thing)

wtf... that's an actual patent??  That's a joke right?  LoL

[ahoythematey]

I know!  It looks nearly as ridiculous as that girl flailing in the Natal video, what are they thinking!

[tmp]

wtf... that's an actual patent??  That's a joke right?  LoL

Nope, no joke. You can see the patent number on the side (20080261693) takes just quick search in the patent office to find it.

link for the lazy