Consolidated Letdown: E3 2009

[schild]

I'm getting wasted.

This shit is amazing looking.

[Triforcer]

The Wii Vital Sensor is one of those things that seems to make perfect sense in Japan (where, remember, there are arcade games about anally violating your boss with your finger), but I'm willing to bet that no Nintendo employee with round eyes was within a continent of the board room when that shit went down. 

[Margalis]

I'm surprised how seriously people are taking the new motion controllers. Personally I found it a little sad that both MS and PS3 are so transparently playing follow the leader. I have the same question for both technologies: in an FPS how do I strafe left?

From what I've heard the Nunchuck was something Nintendo was forced to add to get around basic character control issues. Using the PS3 dildo how do you move left? You use your left hand to operate a standard PS3 controller left stick? On the MS system you do a mock sidestep?

Neither motion control system has a release date, a price or an annouced game. MS developers got their first kits for it yesterday according to MS. That's the start of the process of evaluating it, learning how to use it, deciding if you want to make something for it, then actually making it. Remember the Wii blew up when people stood in line to play Wii Sports at E3, not when they saw tech demos. Both companies are teasing motion controllers because they want a piece of the expanded audience and they want to be able to compete based on bullet points. It's about being able to say "look we have motion control too."

Technology-wise the MS stuff at least looks interesting.
---

Aside from that, here is my summation of the three conferences:

MS: Pretty good if you're looking for a bunch of sequels to shooters, otherwise pretty mediocre. No surprises. Halo appears to be weakening as a franchise, not generating much buzz. Probably pleased the typical XBox fans but as someone who does not enjoy the move-your-reticle-with-the-right-stick-and-pull-trigger-to-shoot-man-in-face genre I found it pretty underwhelming. To me this was the weakest of the three for that reason - the only game I can imagine myself buying is Alan Wake, and that's only if it can prove that's it's a lot less like SH5 and Alone in the Dark and a lot more like SH2. (Hey, it has the story so why not?)

I found "hey, do you guys like Castlevania and Metroid? Well here's a ripoff! Look it has the same map!" to be pretty odd. Might be a very fun game but I'm not sure why anyone would promote a new game like that.


Sony: Less presentation razzle-dazzle than MS (no celebs) and a more garbled message, but more interesting offerings in a wider genre. Underscored the difference between PlayStation and 360. A few genuine surprises. Kart racing game looked interesting, though I have no interest in it. Both MS and Sony offered Kart racers (hmm...) but at least this one had a hook. Was surprised to see that "test footage from a year ago" of Trico was pretty much what was shown, still it's a game I'll likely enjoy. God of War3 was pretty much exactly what you'd expect, nothing less, nothing more. Have lost interest.

Also: FFXIV. I called it in the car this morning on the way to work. Ironically I may not have the time to actually play it given my current position but I'm looking forward to it. Really curious to see how it differs from XI.

Nintendo: Worst presentation in terms of presentation. Delivered the most genuine surprises. 2D Mario was slightly spoiled. Galaxy 2 was a complete surprise. Metroid with Team Ninja was the surprise of the show. I could have named literally 70 developers that Nintendo could team up with to create a more mature game without naming them. That was totally out of left field - well played. Keeping Galaxy 2 and Metroid a secret was impressive.

Overall it really wasn't dissapointing. Although I'm dissapointed with what MS has to offer I think I have to chalk that up to being out of step with the demographic there. (Anyone looking to trade a PS3 for a 360 plus cash?)

[schild]

Sony: Less presentation razzle-dazzle than MS (no celebs) and a more garbled message

What was the garbled message, good sir?

[MournelitheCalix]

Just a question, did Obsidian Entertainment show up at E3?  I ask because they had a number of titles that I was pretty interested in and I have heard nothing about them.

Edit:  I see they did from Obsidian's Web site, did anyone have any impressions on the Alpha Protocol presentation?

[Hawkbit]

Darniaq said what I wanted to say. Precision was never the Wiimote's primary issue, eventhough it is a big issue. Sony's contraption doesn't solve how we're practically going to play a fully developed, modern game using motion capture. It's just a "hey, we can too" to Nintendo/MS. Exceptionally few activities in real life (or games) involve standing still and swinging your arms about.

Again, I said 3-5 years.  Sony had a neat tech demo on it.  If it comes to fruition, awesome.  If not, oh well.

When I saw the sword/shield combo, I thought of playing Oblivion like that.  Then switching on the fly to your bow, and so forth. 

[Margalis]

I see they did from Obsidian's Web site, did anyone have any impressions on the Alpha Protocol presentation?

I'll be there tomorrow, I'll try to stop buy, check it out and report back if they have anything at their booth.

[Ghambit]

The problem I've got with Natal (as groundbreaking as it is) is there's absolutely no tactile response between you and any virtual tool you plan to use (sword, bow, gun, etc.), since you're just swinging your limbs through the air.  This REALLY kinda kills the interface to the game, unless you've got some kind of LARPing prop to make up the difference or focus on games that only require magic, psionics, etc.  The purple-dildo at least has some feel to it, although the tech. is overall obviously more limiting.

There's only one other company that's pulled off what Natal has, but it's not even commercially available for even development work.  So regardless, it's a leap forward for interface design and deserves Kudos.  

As for dev. timetables, imo (not that anyone respects it) most of these interfaces arent all that challenging to port even into an existing game really.  It's all just gesture-based macroed button pushes and/or analog X-Y coordinates.  The game engine doesnt know the difference.  Matter of fact, you could probably use a 3rd-party prog to pretty much use the interface(s) on any game.  e.g. if I was making an RPG or Bushido Blade type game that releases within 1 year from now, I'd find a way to incorporate Natal/dildo.

[UnSub]

LARPing

That's what all this motion-sensing technology is making me think of.

This is MS and Sony playing follow-the-leader, despite the fact that the leader in this area has seen a lot of (third party) developers worry about exactly how to design for a Wiimote. Perhaps they've got it by now and MS / Sony can benefit from them taking up Nintendo's time in working it out.

[Falwell]

I got home from the office late this afternoon, jumped on steam, and made the mistake of asking Schild how the Sony conference went....

I was hit with a blast of text scrolling so fast that I believe it sent me into some kind of coma. I still can't feel my legs.

Sony, you fuckers, put MAG on the PC.

[Triforcer]

Did DCUO get any player or run any trailers?  Can't seem to find much on it, and that shitty shitty shit Myspace page won't load in Japan.

[schild]

2 seconds of it in the PS3 montage.

[Velorath]

Sony didn't fuck up even a little is what happened.

No PS3 price drop/slim model I'd say was their biggest fuck up.

[patience]

I got home from the office late this afternoon, jumped on steam, and made the mistake of asking Schild how the Sony conference went....

I was hit with a blast of text scrolling so fast that I believe it sent me into some kind of coma. I still can't feel my legs.

Sony, you fuckers, put MAG on the PC.

There are a lot of games that I want to be on the PC. If I was forced to choose only one it would be Splinter Cell over MAG.

I seriously also wish EA would just cough up Fight Night round 3 and port it to the Wii. After playing Punchout! I've regained my desire to see that happen.

[Cyrrex]

How can you possibly believe that FNR3 on the Wii would be any good at all?  They would have to dumb it down beyond all recognition.

[Ghambit]

Did DCUO get any player or run any trailers?  Can't seem to find much on it, and that shitty shitty shit Myspace page won't load in Japan.

http://video.ign.com/streaming/e3-2009/index.html#
Scroll to the DCUO demo on the right.  (note the suckage)

Gamespot has a live stage demo tomorrow also, which I've seen to be the most informative by FAR for all the games they've done.

If you want any info. on pretty much anything,  ign and gamespot are the best... either Live or through their archives.

[tmp]

I'm surprised how seriously people are taking the new motion controllers. Personally I found it a little sad that both MS and PS3 are so transparently playing follow the leader. I have the same question for both technologies: in an FPS how do I strafe left?

From what I've heard the Nunchuck was something Nintendo was forced to add to get around basic character control issues. Using the PS3 dildo how do you move left? You use your left hand to operate a standard PS3 controller left stick? On the MS system you do a mock sidestep?

I'd guess it could be as simple as leaning to the left. Didn't see the MS presentation, but in Sony one they had no problem moving gun around the virtual room.

[Mrbloodworth]

I have the same question for both technologies: in an FPS how do I strafe left?

If its a WII, you press the directional controller. if its NTAIL, you do nothing, If its the PS3, you ... Strafe left.



I would like to point out, the one Microsoft has shown was 100% simulated. The PS3 demo, was live, real, and real time. I think its Microsoft who is farting in the wind and made a video of a wish list item.

[Draegan]

Watching the Sony Presser now.

OMG MAG

fuck.

[AutomaticZen]

After perusing the videos at Gametrailers, my games to look out for are:

Splinter Cell: Conviction (360) (Game of Show for me)
Mass Effect 2 (360)
Alpha Protocol (360/PS3)
Crackdown 2 (360)
Dragon Age (360/PC)
Uncharted 2 (PS3)
Assassin's Creed 2 (360/PS3)
The Last Guardian (PS3)
Heavy Rain (PS3)
Lost Planet 2 (360)
Split/Second (360/PS3)
Metroid: Other M (Wii)
Dead Rising 2 (360/PS3)
Tastsunoko vs Capcom (Wii)
MAG (PS3)
Alan Wake (360)
Final Fantasy XIII (360/PS3)

Four of those are PS3 only, so it's nice to see Sony get their heads in the game this year.  The PS3 just need to get to that impulse buy level ($300 for me), and the PSP Go is starting at the wrong price point (and why continue to sell the old PSP, if you're going to be releasing PSP Go-only games?).

[Ghambit]

I would like to point out, the one Microsoft has shown was 100% simulated. The PS3 demo, was live, real, and real time. I think its Microsoft who is farting in the wind and made a video of a wish list item.

wth are you talking about?  They both were live demos.  One was partially simulated (MS), one was not simmed at all(PS3).  And the demo for MS was way better because it had both live and sim.
Let me burst your bubble a bit more, the tech. that PS3 is using is over 10 years old.  It's old tagged A.R. technology [tagged=some kind of programming symbol the system recognizes, like a rune, reflective tape, IR, etc.]... just like in movie mocap or that shitty tech. you saw on CNN during the election.  It's absolutely nothing special, aside from the fact it's being developed for Sony.   (I can give you software RIGHT NOW, that'll allow you to do the exact same thing only you wont be holding a glowy dildo; you just print out an A.R. cube and stick it on the end of a wand... Sony's version is just covered by that glowy penix head)

Natal is the only truly groundbreaking thing in the entire E3 (we'd need a new thread to discuss it).  And even that really isnt new tech.  Neither are wishlist items; they're stuff that's been out a while, only just now being embraced by suits with money.  A truly SMART developer would use both technologies to make the best interface possible.  Your "props" will be utilized via the PS3 wand, and everything else will be interacted with through MS's facial/body-recognition system.

The caveat is, there's absolutely nothing stopping MS from just adding a tagged wand to their system, which would basically pwn everyone else outright.  Why they didnt add that to their demo is beyond me, but I guarantee you it's part of the system. (cutting down Milo with a sword would've been cool)

All this angst and cynicism towards MS for their E3 presentation isnt justified at all.  A lot of good/smart people have worked on bringing that tech. to the masses for quite some time; I'd like to say they deserve some credit, even in this forum.  Sony deserves none, they're just biters... always have been (they're good at teh shinay though).  Nintendo just stuck a gyro on a light-gun, then added another gyro, then yelled "MARIO."  MS actually brought something more groundbreaking that moreso represents a paradigm shift in the way we can interface; there are WAY more possibilities with their tech. than anything else you've seen at E3 in a looooong time.

[AutomaticZen]

Kojima Productions' Lords of Shadow is revealed as Castlevania: Lords of Shadow.

Also, Natal is working tech, as shown by Kotaku's Hands-On.  Most of the presser seemed realtime as well, since no one needs to look that stupid for a simulation.

[MrHat]

In case you missed it: Tap L1 and R1 to RIP SOMEONES HEAD OFF WITH YOUR BARE HANDS.

[tmp]

What about shitting down the neck, though? 

[Mrbloodworth]

What about shitting down the neck, though? 

There is a new attachment for that. and its 60$

[Cyrrex]

In case you missed it: Tap L1 and R1 to RIP SOMEONES HEAD OFF WITH YOUR BARE HANDS.

It was kinda hard to miss.  I'm struggling to figure out if I find that unbelievably awesome, or just fucking disgusting.  Perhaps they aren't mutually exclusive.

[tmp]

There is a new attachment for that. and its 60$

Well, that's one way to utilize Natal.

"Look at what just happened."
"Scan".

[HaemishM]

The problem I've got with Natal (as groundbreaking as it is) is there's absolutely no tactile response between you and any virtual tool you plan to use (sword, bow, gun, etc.), since you're just swinging your limbs through the air.  This REALLY kinda kills the interface to the game, unless you've got some kind of LARPing prop to make up the difference or focus on games that only require magic, psionics, etc.

Agree.

 The purple-dildo at least has some feel to it, although the tech. is overall obviously more limiting.

Why is it more limiting? It's using a camera to track movement just like the Natal, only there's the tactile feedback and buttons. To me, the Sony Vibrator had a lot more possibilities than the Natal, Pedobear Stalking Game notwithstanding.


There's only one other company that's pulled off what Natal has, but it's not even commercially available for even development work.  So regardless, it's a leap forward for interface design and deserves Kudos.

The Natal to me falls flat on its face because: 1) it's an addon meant to attract the Wii's casual crowd but 2) it's likely going to cost $50-$100 on top of the $300-$400 for the 360 (compared to its competition at $250 w/ a game included) and 3) it seems to require a shitton of room most families don't have in their living room. The casual crowd is just not the 360's area - it costs too much and the games are not there for that crowd. Microsoft is trying to make it the home entertainment box but that falls flat because 1) no Blu-Ray, 2) its main draw is games and its main library is not family/casual games but hardcore games. Microsoft is chasing Wii money but they learned the wrong lesson of the Wii.

The PS3 demo, OTOH, didn't target the casual audience - it targeted gamers, which is the console's audience. It targeted geeks with money to burn. In short, it was an upgrade for the current audience, not an attempt to reach a market that doesn't exist for the console. In business terms, it was a retention mechanism, not chasing after a new market that likely wouldn't buy the original product anyway.

[tmp]

The Natal to me falls flat on its face because: 1) it's an addon meant to attract the Wii's casual crowd but 2) it's likely going to cost $50-$100 on top of the $300-$400 for the 360 (compared to its competition at $250 w/ a game included) and 3) it seems to require a shitton of room most families don't have in their living room.

also

4) requires slim people able to withstand prolonged cardio workout. 5) people just love it when the guy in apartment upstairs keeps jumping and landing on the floor with heavy thud every few seconds.

[Mrbloodworth]

The Sony motion thingy had many, MANY more applications that the MS one.

[tmp]

One thing the Natal brings to the table the others don't, though...

... if it works anywhere near as good as they claim it does, development of realistic animations for computer games might get whole hell cheaper and accessible..?

[Moaner]

Working 12 hour days during E3 sucks.  I'm going to have no idea what happened.

[Murgos]

The Sony motion thingy had many, MANY more applications that the MS one.

I don't think so.  The Sony product's abilities are a subset of the abilities of the MS product.

But execution is more important than the product itself in this case.  If it's 'easier' to do fun, relevant things in one more than the other then that's the one that will win, at least for this generation.

[Venkman]

Why they didnt add that to their demo is beyond me, but I guarantee you it's part of the system. (cutting down Milo with a sword would've been cool)

My guess is that they wanted to show they:

• Weren't as obviously copying Nintendo as Sony was. And everyone who needed to know probably knew what Sony was going to show. Didn't matter how well their wand performed, we've known for, what, a year they were working on a wand?
• Trying to evolve to the next step of immersion beyond the limitations of a single-handed 3D wand.
  
  

The PS3 demo, OTOH, didn't target the casual audience - it targeted gamers, which is the console's audience

The Sony motion thingy had many, MANY more applications that the MS one.

No. Games target gamers. Sony's device presentation was merely a tech demo with a sub-LBG casual presentation to show they can make one too using technology that would work just as well on the original EyeToy but which they had no reason to actually do until Nintendo clocked them.

As to pricing, as I said last page: Wii-mote is $50. How much you think a camera plus wand is going to be? Natal will likely cost more for sure, but neither of these devices is going to draw in a whole bunch of Wii expats into their realm. It's an affinity purchase at first, until real third party developers thrown down with serious budgets to utilize them right. How many have done that for the existing wand console? How many developers showed up for the EyeToy.

Heck, someone said something like this only matters because Sony's got their name on it. I wonder why they think that matters.

Wii isn't ahead in this cycle because of technology. They are because of marketing and a first first party games for a different audience.

[Draegan]

With the MS system you can sell peripherals with the game. 

Hack and Slash sword game?  You can sell a sword or a hilt or whatever with buttons and vibrations and whatever else you want to put on there.  That hilt can double as a bow and arrow thingy.

FPS game?  Obvious answer there.

The only issue i have is how do you create games where you have movement AND do that movement well so it isn't awkward like it is on the Wii.