World of Tanks

[Furiously]

If you want to game your kills and wins, play a tank capable of changing the outcome. Like a t-49 or a M4 with derp and gold rounds.

[Gets]

The win rate as a metric is pretty much bullshit. People will argue over it until they're blue in the face and at this point it's pointless. True believers will trot out ponderous and flawed "statistical analysis" and just bury any counter-arguement or correction to their model with idiot gamer forum bullshit.

It's official - winrate is gaming's global warming.

[Bungee]

Well, I seriously doubt how much win % is saying about how good somebody is. Mainly because I'm one of those "rush forward-blow shit up-die quickly-next tank" guys. And I'm at 53% (2.1k played now) without ever playing a CW. My buddy who I usually toon with was at 2.6k when I started and is now at 3.1k, so it's also not that. I also consider him far superior in play to me and he's at 51% (also no CWs). When we play together I usually end up dead long before him and he out-XPs me most of the time.
Never even looked at my % until this discussion here and I don't use any mods (well except the slow-pc mod...). So here's my e-peen rolled out and I never even knew it was that big.

Edit: Really neat this Service Record stuff. My top tanks seem to be the T29 (59%,130 played) and the T-34 (58%, 250 played). Hah, and I only survive 23% of my battles. I really think that should be the real measure. Or a combination of WR and survival rate. No?

[Tmon]

I only look at somebody's win rate when they spend half the match screaming that we are noobs and yet another fail team in chat after they die.  Surprisingly those guys often have a win rate of less than 45% and frequently multi thousand games played.  Here's what I think is the generally agreed upon efficiency rating calculator for WoT http://wot-news.com/stat/calc/en/ru  it looks at win rate plus other stats to calculate your overall efficiency.  It isn't perfect but seems to be roughly accurate.  It does have a bias to high tier tanks since it uses damage dealt and average tier level as part of the calculation, but even if all you play is low tiers should still be able to get into the good range.

[Nebu]

If you want to game your kills and wins, play a tank capable of changing the outcome. Like a t-49 or a M4 with derp and gold rounds.

Getting REALLY sick of the M4/PzIV derp platoons with gold rounds.  It's making it unfun to level my other tanks. 

[WayAbvPar]

I will never sell my KV-2 as long as I can buy gold rounds for credits. It literally makes me laugh out loud every time I one shot someone.

[Nebu]

I will never sell my KV-2 as long as I can buy gold rounds for credits. It literally makes me laugh out loud every time I one shot someone.

The top gun for the KV-1S gives me the same pleasure... though I cry sometimes with the accuracy. 

[Amarr HM]

Well, I seriously doubt how much win % is saying about how good somebody is. Mainly because I'm one of those "rush forward-blow shit up-die quickly-next tank" guys.

That's already a lot better than the majority of pub players I come across. The old does Win % show skill level question that gets rattled around, I think it speaks for itself. If I platoon we win 80%, if I run in -G- companies that may go up to about 99%, if I run solo I still get around 60%. Another thing I've never seen a bad player with a high win percentage.

[UnsGub]

Well, I seriously doubt how much win % is saying about how good somebody is.

Win % is something you produce just like everyone else in the game.

Tiers, tanks, platoons, and company battles can greatly affect it.  Personally I try to not play alone.

[Nebu]

I play the game in platoons with my RL friends.  Some of them are good, some not so good.  I've gotten 5 Brothers in Arms in the past couple of weeks and still sport a lovely 46% win rate.  While I feel like I can affect the battle, it also seems like my team can quickly derail a strong effort.  Hell, I've had several matches lately where my kills were the only kills my team got.  I still think the MM plays a dominant role... though I'm really nothing more than an average player.  Watching a skilled player is a thing of beauty. 

[Merusk]

If you want to game your kills and wins, play a tank capable of changing the outcome. Like a t-49 or a M4 with derp and gold rounds.

Getting REALLY sick of the M4/PzIV derp platoons with gold rounds.  It's making it unfun to level my other tanks. 

Y'know.. I have an M4 with the derp I still drive and I hadn't even considered loading gold in to it.  The things a fuck-you wagon as it is, and my crew's only 79%.  Now I'm going to have to try it.

[Engels]

Got 9 one shot kills in my gold round M4 derp night before last. It truly is cheat mode.

Amarr can corroborate this, I think, but being in an uber clan like -G- improves your stats not simply because of the clan wars, which can't possibly skew your stats that much, they're just a few battles a night at most, but because uber clans always always always run tier 10 tanks. They are always top dogs and can always determine battles. When you see 3 HAVOK players with 60%+ stats on your team, that's because they are always running Batchats/IS7s/etc.

These days I look at XVM with a huge grain of salt. I have an overall win percent of 53. I also have a win rate of 39% in my T95 and a 65% win rate in my Tier VII French artillery. My stats vary WILDLY depending on what I'm using, and I imagine its the same for everyone else. If I ALWAYS used my Batchat, M48 or T110E5, I'd have far better stats all around. However, I sometimes have to grind a dog of a tank that messes up the stats.

I use an xvm.conf files called ZVer (found in the samples folder in the xvm docs folder) that gives a win chance break down by global player rating, per-tank player rating and level of total experience win-chance. I find the latter two chance estimates more accurate than the global one.

[Nebu]

Would any of you vets be willing to take me into the training room and explain the finer points of the common maps?  I'm starting to better understand strategies, but often find that the subtle points are missed.  Fjord and Dragon whatever are maps that I just don't seem to have a handle on yet.  The others I think I'm getting, but still need to sort out the fine points.  

Spending an hour with Abagadro the other night had a huge effect on my view of games. 

[WayAbvPar]

Dragon Ridge is an awful map. I still don't have a good feel for it.

For Fjords, I like to see the top tier heavies duke it out at the SE corner (bonus points for making them come to you and thus into your arty's range), while mediums cover the N. TDs can disperse between N and the middle cut through town depending on what side you start on, and what your team does. For arty, if you start W go to the top (A3-5 area) so you can fire at the back of people trying to go around the southern corner, or stay south near the base and fire at heavies that your guys sucker around the corner. If you start in the E, the best spot seems to be out on the islands to the SE so you can shoot at the corner and still get some coverage back into the middle of the map.

I am by no means an expert, but I would be happy to run a few matches with you. Not being an expert hasn't precluded me from developing some strong opinions, which I try to share with my less well-informed teammates as often as possible (usually interspersed with plenty of profanity and name calling) 

[Engels]

Glad to help out Nebu, but the two maps you're talking about are vexing to the best of us. Dragon Ridge is just built super weird and the strategy involved is a bit wonky due to terrain.

The same thing petty much goes for Fjords.

I can tell you right off that in Dragon Ridge and Fjords spawning south and east respectively is a huge advantage since those sides allow for a protected assault while the other sides are highly vulnerable.

[Pendan]

I will concede that your ability to shape a game is far reduced at lower tiers.

Actually, the best way to game your win % as a solo pub player after you have 2000+ games and have good game knowledge is to go back and play nothing but tier 2 battles. Not only can you use your knowledge to beat newbies but your crew skills become much better than opponents and you can add advantages that others will not have like binoculars, camo net, tool box, vent, etc.

What happened to me was my clan was entering a tournament about 6 months after release and needed a tier 2 tank to fill out the points. It was decided a M2 Light would work best but I had not used that tank before so bought one and started playing some games to test it out. I won 13 of first 16 games even though was using a untrained crew. I played about 40 matches before the tournament and then continued to play it each day after for the 2x bonus. My crew did not reach 100% until around the 90th match I think (the last 10% took longer than 50 to 90). I think I was at a 71% win ratio at that point (strictly solo pub matches and tournament play does not change a tanks stats like training). I have continued to play it whenever have 3x or better days just to be ready for other tournaments.

So I know that the argument that one person can not effect the outcome of matches is false because I know what I can do at tier 2. Secondly, I have experienced playing with a few of the best players in the game at tier 10 clan wars and know how much better the team does when they are present versus missing (example farva1 and CzechMonster are former clan members).

[Nebu]

Clan Wars are a different beast though.  The one or two experts can convey their thoughts/instruction by voice com and radically alter the course of a battle.  This isn't the case in pubs. 

[Merusk]

Dragon Ridge is an awful map. I still don't have a good feel for it.

I love Dragon Ridge but you need the right tank for it.  My ATA1 is utter shit.  The Type 59 or another fast medium? Fantastic map.

You need to decide if you're going in the gap valley or staying on the ridge.  NObody goes down in the terraces without a fast tank because it's suicide.  However if you're a light and can get up there and hide until the heavies are distracted you can usually rush the Arty and get some kills.  I'll take the Type up the North Gap quite often to counter the fast meds and lights that try to push that way.

Ridge Town is a death trap if coming from the north flag unless you're grouped.  If a group of you come in and down you can rush the guys hugging the ridge.  You have to be wary of Arty here though.   If you're coming from the south flag you can try and use it to sweep up and do the same with less risk, but if you pop over the ridge their arty has clear LOS to you.  You also risk taking shots from folks like me who went to the north gap.

The valley has some obvious choke points.  Whoever takes the ridge can pummel those points so I avoid it unless a large group goes down.  Heavies should stay the fuck out of here unless they have a fast engine. The number of bogged-down T34s and Lowes I see in here who wind-up sniped as they try and crawl uphill is stupid.

Fjords


You've got a great advantage if you start at spawn II.  You can take the mid choke, an overwatch for the bend and block the bend with arty assistance. This is very much the defend side but so many try to use it as assault instead and get owned.   Your best assault route from side II is to go up to the nest and snipe the guys sitting at the bend.  Folks from start I will often stop on the other side of those mountains and not come around, worried about the people in the "overwatch" area.

Assaulting from side I just sucks and I lose this way quite often.   The most successful groups are those that push hill and send some harassers into the town to plink the guys at the bend and sniper.  The hill group has to get up there and rush down fast, without stopping, into the Overwatch or Sniper area and overwhelm the other side.  Not much luck doing this in PUGS.

[Pendan]

It was not their instructions that was missed the most because we were running the same strategies every night. It was purely the missing skill. Farva1 was an excellent battle commander but I think we actually did better when someone else was directing a well known strategy and farva could concentrate on his own play.

As for learning maps what I do is use a second computer with an account with 0 games played. I go into a training mission with other account and just drive around. Look for sniping spots. Figure out what buildings are permanent and which can be destroyed. With the physics engine how can you get to certain spots that previously was unavailable.

[WayAbvPar]

Dragon Ridge is an awful map. I still don't have a good feel for it.

I love Dragon Ridge but you need the right tank for it.

In a medium or heavy that can move a bit, it is playable, but I would still rather play almost any other map. I think I especially hate it because I end up playing arty on it seemingly at least half the time, which is a godamned nightmare.

[Ginaz]

If you want to game your kills and wins, play a tank capable of changing the outcome. Like a t-49 or a M4 with derp and gold rounds.

Getting REALLY sick of the M4/PzIV derp platoons with gold rounds.  It's making it unfun to level my other tanks. 

Y'know.. I have an M4 with the derp I still drive and I hadn't even considered loading gold in to it.  The things a fuck-you wagon as it is, and my crew's only 79%.  Now I'm going to have to try it.

I re-bought the M4 today since it was 50% off and loaded it up with the derp gun using gold credit rounds.  Its probably the most fun I've had playing in awhile.  Three people threatened to quit the game because of it.

[Ginaz]

I wonder if using the KV-1 and its derp might be better considering how its still a tier 5 but much sturdier than the M4?

[WayAbvPar]

KV-1 is ok, the KV-2 is A LOT more fun with the derp. God it is hilarious.

[Gets]

In Derp We Trust

[Nebu]

KV-1 is ok, the KV-2 is A LOT more fun with the derp. God it is hilarious.

I think the KV-1s is a nice compromise between them.  I enjoy it a lot.

[Ginaz]

Public test of 8.3 is now available.  This is the one that includes the new Chinese tanks.  Ni Hao!

http://worldoftanks.com/news/1895-public-test-083-patch-notes/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=i6umfwXWxdc

Edit: Testing might be done.  I'm confused.

Edit 2:  I think they got their dates wrong.  "UPDATE: The Public Test Server has been stopped on December 5, 2013 at 04:00 PST (12:00 UTC). We'll be running another iteration of the test in a few days.  We'll provide the exact start time once it's been finalized."

[Nebu]

Help!

How the hell do you play a tier 7 medium (T-20) against tier 8's when you have terrible heavies on your team.  The T-20 is fast, but not terribly quick, so flanking is a challenge without a running start.  I'm also noticing that while the gun is good, that whittling away at something with decent alpha damage isn't helpful either.  It's quite frustrating with on teams with bad heavies or camping mediums.  

Then there's the British heavies.  Slow slow slow... in matches with a lot of ground to cover, I am a prime target for arty.  I move too slowly to avoid arty damage and tier 6 arty will 2-shot me.  Is this something I have to live with?

[Ginaz]

Help!

How the hell do you play a tier 7 medium (T-20) against tier 8's when you have terrible heavies on your team.  The T-20 is fast, but not terribly quick, so flanking is a challenge without a running start.  I'm also noticing that while the gun is good, that whittling away at something with decent alpha damage isn't helpful either.  It's quite frustrating with on teams with bad heavies or camping mediums.  

Then there's the British heavies.  Slow slow slow... in matches with a lot of ground to cover, I am a prime target for arty.  I move too slowly to avoid arty damage and tier 6 arty will 2-shot me.  Is this something I have to live with?

British tanks are horrible, with the exception of the Cromwell.   Got up to the tier 9 medium and stopped.  From looking at their stats and seeing them played in game, the heavies are even worse.  Even the French heavies are better.  They can at least do some decent damage.  If you're looking to eventually get a tier 10 heavy, I would go either US (don't know what the T57 is like, though) or Soviet.  The German tier 10s, Maus and E-100, are simply too big and too slow and are HUGE arty magnets.  The US T110E5 and the Soviet IS-7 and IS-4 are all good choices (I have about a 60% win rate with the IS-7 and T110E5).

As for the T-20, its a nice little tank that does well for its tier but does suffer when facing tier 8 and above.  Your best bet is to stick with your heavies, hang back a bit, and try and hit the enemy when they are engaged with your heavies.  Its tricky and takes some time and patience to learn but it does work.  Barring that, you can scout the flanks and ensure none of the enemy scout tanks slip past.

[Brolan]

Help!

How the hell do you play a tier 7 medium (T-20) against tier 8's when you have terrible heavies on your team.  The T-20 is fast, but not terribly quick, so flanking is a challenge without a running start.  I'm also noticing that while the gun is good, that whittling away at something with decent alpha damage isn't helpful either.  It's quite frustrating with on teams with bad heavies or camping mediums.  

Then there's the British heavies.  Slow slow slow... in matches with a lot of ground to cover, I am a prime target for arty.  I move too slowly to avoid arty damage and tier 6 arty will 2-shot me.  Is this something I have to live with?

British tanks are horrible, with the exception of the Cromwell.   Got up to the tier 9 medium and stopped.  From looking at their stats and seeing them played in game, the heavies are even worse.  Even the French heavies are better.  They can at least do some decent damage.  If you're looking to eventually get a tier 10 heavy, I would go either US (don't know what the T57 is like, though) or Soviet.  The German tier 10s, Maus and E-100, are simply too big and too slow and are HUGE arty magnets.  The US T110E5 and the Soviet IS-7 and IS-4 are all good choices (I have about a 60% win rate with the IS-7 and T110E5).

As for the T-20, its a nice little tank that does well for its tier but does suffer when facing tier 8 and above.  Your best bet is to stick with your heavies, hang back a bit, and try and hit the enemy when they are engaged with your heavies.  Its tricky and takes some time and patience to learn but it does work.  Barring that, you can scout the flanks and ensure none of the enemy scout tanks slip past.

Spall liners are the best friends of slow heavies.   It makes a huge difference in how long you survive under arty fire.

[kildorn]

I always abused the gun depression and speed on the T20 to show up in odd flanks and smack heavies on the side. But it's a hard tank to find the feel for since you're basically required to always be in the right places and know when to gtfo.

The Brits are just odd. The Cromwell is fun, Comet is okay. I wasn't a big fan of the Cent 1, oddly. The Churches are meh, the BP is okay. Really, the Brit Heavies just can't punch above their weight due to low pen and slow speed. In their own tier they're bouncy as fuck though.

I'm really enjoying the Caern, and I can't figure out why. It's randomly bouncy with a very nice gun, but it's basically a fat Cent. Yet I hated the Cent.

[Nebu]

Is the AMX12 any good or am I just terrible with lights?  It seems to accelerate so slowly that you REALLY have to know the map well to make the tank perform.  I guess I should go back to my T-50-2.  At least it was fun.

[Ginaz]

Help!

How the hell do you play a tier 7 medium (T-20) against tier 8's when you have terrible heavies on your team.  The T-20 is fast, but not terribly quick, so flanking is a challenge without a running start.  I'm also noticing that while the gun is good, that whittling away at something with decent alpha damage isn't helpful either.  It's quite frustrating with on teams with bad heavies or camping mediums.  

Then there's the British heavies.  Slow slow slow... in matches with a lot of ground to cover, I am a prime target for arty.  I move too slowly to avoid arty damage and tier 6 arty will 2-shot me.  Is this something I have to live with?

British tanks are horrible, with the exception of the Cromwell.   Got up to the tier 9 medium and stopped.  From looking at their stats and seeing them played in game, the heavies are even worse.  Even the French heavies are better.  They can at least do some decent damage.  If you're looking to eventually get a tier 10 heavy, I would go either US (don't know what the T57 is like, though) or Soviet.  The German tier 10s, Maus and E-100, are simply too big and too slow and are HUGE arty magnets.  The US T110E5 and the Soviet IS-7 and IS-4 are all good choices (I have about a 60% win rate with the IS-7 and T110E5).

As for the T-20, its a nice little tank that does well for its tier but does suffer when facing tier 8 and above.  Your best bet is to stick with your heavies, hang back a bit, and try and hit the enemy when they are engaged with your heavies.  Its tricky and takes some time and patience to learn but it does work.  Barring that, you can scout the flanks and ensure none of the enemy scout tanks slip past.

Spall liners are the best friends of slow heavies.   It makes a huge difference in how long you survive under arty fire.

Probably, but I just never cared for the Maus.  I play much better with more mobile tanks, which the T110E5, IS4 and IS7 all are compared to the Maus, and I'm guessing the E-100, too. 

[kildorn]

Is the AMX12 any good or am I just terrible with lights?  It seems to accelerate so slowly that you REALLY have to know the map well to make the tank perform.  I guess I should go back to my T-50-2.  At least it was fun.

The 12t is godawful. The 13 75 is decent. Neither will be as nimble as a 50-2, but they come with surprisingly useful guns if you're good at staying alive until the mid game. Don't do the stupid attack runs when everyone is still full health, they're mean when everyone's at 20% and scattered a bit.

[Ginaz]

Is the AMX12 any good or am I just terrible with lights?  It seems to accelerate so slowly that you REALLY have to know the map well to make the tank perform.  I guess I should go back to my T-50-2.  At least it was fun.

The 12t is godawful. The 13 75 is decent. Neither will be as nimble as a 50-2, but they come with surprisingly useful guns if you're good at staying alive until the mid game. Don't do the stupid attack runs when everyone is still full health, they're mean when everyone's at 20% and scattered a bit.

I agree.  Too many people use them as early game suicide scout rushers (which is almost always stupid to do anyway) and die quickly.  Their guns can pen and destroy any tank from the sides or rear.

[Nebu]

Thank you all for your time and input.  I've got over 4000 matches in and I still feel like a noob in this game.  What has been fun is steadily watching my stats improve with time.  Sadly, I've dug a HUGE hole to climb out of.  I guess that gives me plenty to work towards.