Juicy Dev Chat tidbits

[schild]

12-14-04
WorldofWar.net

The Good:

We will continue to improve the AH interface We also plan on putting AH in all cities and linking them.

The Obvious:

We do have plans for world envents, such as special items and quests for the holidays, but again we don't want to ruin any surprises.

The Vague:

Yes we do have plans to improve the map functionality.

The Eternally Delayed:

Battlegrounds are currently being tested and refined internally.

The Reasons I'm canceling the game:

We are planning on introducing Maraudon, a level 40-49 instance dungeon in Desolace inthe next content patch.

Fuck high level raid content introduced in the first 3-6 months.

We aren't planning on punishing players for killing low level players...

I'm no carebear, but I hope you don't kiss your mother with that mouth.

Goddamn idiots.

[Rasix]

The Reasons I'm canceling the game:

We are planning on introducing Maraudon, a level 40-49 instance dungeon in Desolace inthe next content patch.

Fuck high level raid content introduced in the first 3-6 months.

Did they say specifically it's a "raid" instance?  Well, depending on when their patch is, I could be 40 by that time (almost 37 ATM).  But Desolace? Ugg, it's going to be fucking centaurs.  Also 40-49 seems like a rather large level range for an instance, but then again, do they mean when the content is yellow to green or orange to green?  Bleh, specifics would be nice.

40 really isn't that high of a level for the next patch. I've been running into quite a few 35+ nowadays.  It seems half the playerbase is 30+.

As for the rest:

Yay. More auction house + linked = GOOD.  

Yay, I guess.  I just want a Santa hat and maybe a Christmas Poo for a pet.

Ditto. Map functionality, I guess that's good.

Blah. Hurry up with the damn battlegrounds.

So what, I don't play on a PVP server.

[Trippy]

12-14-04
WorldofWar.net

You left off the ".php" at the end of your link. I fixed it in the quoted one above.

The Reasons I'm canceling the game:

We are planning on introducing Maraudon, a level 40-49 instance dungeon in Desolace inthe next content patch.

Fuck high level raid content introduced in the first 3-6 months.

Did you miss this part?:

Will you add new quests to existing zones or only to new zones?

Dev Team : We will be adding quests to existing zones as well as quests for all ofteh new zones. In addition, more class specific quests and more quest to Kalimdor

We aren't planning on punishing players for killing low level players...

I'm no carebear, but I hope you don't kiss your mother with that mouth.

Goddamn idiots.

I liked this PvP-related quote:

What are your thoughts on PvP balance and how the classes should stack up versus each other?

Dev Team : Although we will be making balance improvements, in general we are pretty happy with our PvP class balance. However we don't feel drastic changes are needed at this time.

[Kageru]

A level 40 instance is almost certainly not raid content. There's very little chance of having enough people, even in a large guild, within the level range. It will be another 5 group instance. There are also other things in desolace, including demons, but I was spending my time running from it while I traversed the whole damn zone to learn cookery.

... no wonder the horde food is so basic. You have to be level ~30 before you can become a decent chef.

The level ranges they give for instances seem to frequently be the level of the mobs within. The instances I've done so far have been very good, probably the best dungeons in any MMORPG, but as expected content is being consumed at a staggering rate and blizzard seem every bit as slow to fix and extend as some here commented.  

Their wimp out on the honor system is perplexing. They have to realize a grief friendly environment is going to cause a migration away from the many PvP servers they have.

[Margalis]

I think the honor system issues amount to the promised something without thinking about how they could deliver it, and then couldn't figure it out. They basically come out and say as much. "We're dumping it because it doesn't work."

The sad part is, the spent earlier time talking about how their PvP would be different and then identifying problems - then replicated those problems.

They have corpse camping, graveyard corpse camping, spells that make the players stop playing the game (NEVER DO THIS), etc. What I wonder is if they are going to make some lesser obvious fixes, like something to prevent corpse camping.

How about, when you come back to life you are invulnerable to PvP for 30 seconds unless you attack someone or heal/buff/help someone involved in PvP. Obvious solution, they already do something similar on PvE servers so the code is there. (as far as how you can go from not involved to involved in PvP) Or just increase the corpse retrieval distance if you were killed by another player.

[SirBruce]

The word is about, there's something evolving,
Whatever may come, the world keeps revolving.
They say the next big thing is here,
That the revolution's near,
But to me it seems quite clear
That it's all just a little bit of history repeating.

Bruce

[chinslim]

Much as game designers probably hate the idea of hard-coded level protection, because of whatever interference/monkey wrench it tosses in their concept of a seamless virtual world...they'll have to accept the realities of the 'applied' and the 'theoretical.'

I think the combination of the questing system and PvP makes WoW fun.  The quests/zones tend to create run-ins between opposing sides of similar levels.  Now the combat system has some flexibility +/- 10 levels from my experience, but several bored level 60's camping a level 20-30 zone like Hillsbrad/Ashenvale is cheese.

It's all about new player sustainability.

[Calantus]

The problem with an effective honour system is that it would be reverse griefable. If you get attacked by a bunch of low-levels you either die or cop a penalty. That would suck major ass.

[Alkiera]

The problem with an effective honour system is that it would be reverse griefable. If you get attacked by a bunch of low-levels you either die or cop a penalty. That would suck major ass.

Whereas I would hesitate to describe an 'honor system' that didn't allow you to defend yourself as 'effective'.

Alkiera

[Zetor]

So a level 10 dood attacks you while his grouped level 60 buddies stealth behind ya. If you defend yourself, could they kill you without a penalty then?


-- Z.
bad SWG GTEF flashbacks for the win

[Mesozoic]

The Reasons I'm canceling the game:

We are planning on introducing Maraudon, a level 40-49 instance dungeon in Desolace inthe next content patch.

Fuck high level raid content introduced in the first 3-6 months.

This makes no sense.  Even if it is raid content, WTF is the problem?  We knew that WoW had a raiding endgame.  You're mad that they finished an encounter and are putting it in?  Or are you mad that some people are already 40+?

[schild]

I'm mad because there are other things that need to be fixed.

Did you miss this part?:

Will you add new quests to existing zones or only to new zones?

Dev Team : We will be adding quests to existing zones as well as quests for all ofteh new zones. In addition, more class specific quests and more quest to Kalimdor

I'll believe that when I see it. Blizzard has all but convinced me that they are completely incapable of properly running an MMOG. Sure, they core game is in and working. Sure, that's a step up from everyone else. Unfortunately, every single other aspect of their business from customer support to update delivery is worse than the worst you can think of - yes, even Horizons had better customer support (and a better patching process). For all of it's pluses, World of Warcraft has been a ridiculous clusterfuck in every other area.

[Mesozoic]

Blizzard has all but convinced me that they are completely incapable of properly running an MMOG. Sure, they core game is in and working. Sure, that's a step up from everyone else. Unfortunately, every single other aspect of their business from customer support to update delivery is worse than the worst you can think of - yes, even Horizons had better customer support (and a better patching process). For all of it's pluses, World of Warcraft has been a ridiculous clusterfuck in every other area.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that you hated WoW the moment it was announced.  Only EQ2's rampant suck has forced you to actually install WoW in a desperate search for reasons to hate.  

It makes you look silly.

[Paelos]

I'm failing to see where you are having major "OMG I'M QU1TTING TEH GAME!!1" moments. CS was lacking? What like your elf didn't get an uber drop, or the company isn't accepting your credit card? Those are two different things, one is bitchy the other legit. I've had zero problems with billing or account related issues. I've had zero problems with queues having never seen one. I've had a few issues with servers being down for about an hour, nothing huge. Most of the things you seem pissed about are "problems" you've jaded yourself against without much backup.

They put in a lvl 40 dungeon? Oh noes! I'm lvl 30 now. Hell I know a bunch of the lvl 40s in the guild. They may not even notice this is in by the time it goes live because they are past the requirements. Hardly high level content in my book considering you could get a toon to 20 in a week of casual play.

[Jamiko]

For all of it's pluses, World of Warcraft has been a ridiculous clusterfuck in every other area.

I have no idea what game you are playing. This has been the best experience I have had in any MMOG and I have played almost every one. To each his own I guess.

[schild]

Actually, I enjoyed the hell out of the game for 2-3 weeks there. Then it became every other game, but with a shorter treadmill. The shiny doesn't work on me anymore.

[Viin]

Are we back to the 'too much cake' senario again? ;)

I'm only level 23 on my main guy, and I'm still having fun. Have you powergamed yourself out?

I have certainly run into some annoying things (ie: Icecrown crashing the last two nights for about an hour) but nothing that's blatantly wrong (ie: working as intended: foobar'ed).

Granted, it would be nice if Battlegrounds were in or Rogues were invincible and they gave us pie every Sunday night, but I'm still learning how to play my Rogue to maximum effect and enjoy doing the quests with my friends.

Other than the few minor issues, that, (granted) do need to be fixed, WoW has a very solid underlying game - unlike some other games (*cough*SWG*cough*). If the worst we see is superficial issues and not blatant the whole system is broken issues I say Blizzard is doing a good job.

[schild]

While WoW may not be as crappy as SW:G, it's certainly proof that the EQ formula (at least to me) is just ass. My rogue is only level 21. I powergamed longer and harder in almost every other MMOG. It's mostly that WoW just doesn't give me a reason to play it over the slew of better console and PC games that came out this season.

All WoW has shown me is that a developer can release a stable game at launch. Which is something I saw with City of Heroes back in February. Which was, by far, the more fun of the two.

[Calantus]

The problem with an effective honour system is that it would be reverse griefable. If you get attacked by a bunch of low-levels you either die or cop a penalty. That would suck major ass.

Whereas I would hesitate to describe an 'honor system' that didn't allow you to defend yourself as 'effective'.

Alkiera

Meh, I knew that "effective" was a poor word to use but was too lazy to expand on it. My bad. I meant effective in that it acts as an effective deterrant to killing lowbies, not that it is perfect in every way.

No matter how long I live, I do not ever think I will stop ignoring the "a stich in time saves nine" philosophy. Nor will it ever stop biting me in the ass. Oh well.

[Rasix]

Which was, by far, the more fun of the two.

Which is a matter of personal opinion...  

I don't see a single concrete thing in CoH's gameplay that gives it a fun++ advantage over WoW.  Except tights, I'll give you that.

[schild]

Which was, by far, the more fun of the two.

Which is a matter of personal opinion...  

I don't see a single concrete thing in CoH's gameplay that gives it a fun++ advantage over WoW.  Except tights, I'll give you that.

On the base level of fun, I think CoH had a lot more to offer. Unfortunately, depth was not it's strong suit.

[HaemishM]

CoH was more fun to me than WoW. I'm currently playing WoW because it is teh newz shiney. I still think CoH had much better gameplay, including: 1) better NPC AI, 2) an actual Z-Axis that has an effect on gameplay (which is also part of the reason for #1), 3) much better character customization, 4) more early "power perception" of your character than in WoW.

WoW does have a faster treadmill, though, and a little bit better quest presentation. However, it could greatly benefit from CoH's mission system, particularly in the area of rewarding all players in a group for helping other players on their quests. And WoW could benefit from CoH's much better update system, including community outreach, non-buggy patches and regular content updates.

[Dren]

I agree.  WoW > CoH.

No issues for me and still having lots of fun at lvl 33.

[Signe]

Actually, I enjoyed the hell out of the game for 2-3 weeks there. Then it became every other game, but with a shorter treadmill. The shiny doesn't work on me anymore.

Shiny is the only thing that works for me anymore.

[Mesozoic]

The shiny doesn't work on me anymore.

Ah.  Well, please bear with the rest of us while we attempt to reach your level of gaming experience and wisdom.  Of course by then you will have skyrocketed even further into the stratosphere of computer gaming, instilling a perpetual sense of awe in the rest of us as we bask in your presense. You will lord over the gaming subculture as the Sun does over our Earth.

[trias_e]

It seems like people like CoH just because it makes them feel powerful, not because there is anything actually interesting in the gameplay.  The classes in WoW are so much more interesting to me than the boring CoH stuff.

And the NPC AI was good in CoH?  We must have played different games.  WoW is the same old done well, CoH was much less of the same old (just combat and travel) done either barely as well or very cool in the case of travel.  I would personally rank CoH as the worst MMORPG I've ever played, which includes DAoC, EQ, SB, and now WoW.  I think its just because I like substance over style, and don't just say it like some people here.  Playing as a super hero does not make me one bit excited in and of itself.  To me though, flying and grinding using superpowers instead of spells (whatever) does not make up a fun game.  And thats all CoH had.

CoH was 90% shiny, 10% Z axis.  And you say the shiny doesn't work on you anymore.  Bullshit.

WoW was great for a while, but I'm in my 30's (omgcatass) and everything is still the same old.  I'd like to be in the battlegrounds, or getting xp for PvP, or something.  I'll just take a break for a while and see what the next patch brings, even though one of the community managers said that battlegrounds will not be in it.


Oh, but the reason I won't be cancelling the game:

We are planning on introducing Maraudon, a level 40-49 instance dungeon in Desolace inthe next content patch.

High level...raid content....must contain laughter....

More instances are a good thing.  Instances are the best part of the game.    By the time the next patch comes out half of WoW's playerbase will be probably be close to 40+, considering right now half of it is 31+.  And it has nothing to do with raiding.  

What else exactly do you think the content team should be working on?  Of course not content!  They should be fixing WoW's customer support!  WoW doesn't have 300k subs above level 30 right now, of course not.  And even if they did, certainly they should all be totally ignored.

[Soukyan]

I'm still only level 17 in WoW. I feel so weak (Granted, I haven't had the opportunity to play this past week and a half). On the upside, I got my shiny new copies of Modo, Cinema4D and MotionBuilder and I've used my spare time to start working on a neat project involving a night elf chick. ;)

Decent notes from the dev team. They will need to pump out content faster though and I fear that they may increase the treadmill yet to keep people from leveling so fast. This will, of course, hurt me the most. Well, not really any more. I've grown numb to it because it has happened so much in the past. WoW is certainly a well done game. I'm actually itching to log in and do some fishing of all things (to complete a quest) and check out some new zones (and hopefully not die). Alas, I must wait until Friday. Damnable responsibilities!

[Paelos]

On the upside, I got my shiny new copies of Modo, Cinema4D and MotionBuilder and I've used my spare time to start working on a neat project involving a night elf chick. ;)

Please never link that here, I get enough NE stupidity when I log into the game.

[Jayce]

I'm only 17 and I don't have any excuses like not playing for a week straight.

Fact is, WoW doesn't make me feel like I have to grind to keep up, and I'm having fun without noticing levels that much.  To me, that's worth the monthly fee.

I personally hope I never attain the jaded Zen state that doesn't allow me to enjoy a stable and fun game because the dev notes weren't to my liking.

[Soukyan]

On the upside, I got my shiny new copies of Modo, Cinema4D and MotionBuilder and I've used my spare time to start working on a neat project involving a night elf chick. ;)

Please never link that here, I get enough NE stupidity when I log into the game.

I was joking... well, sort of. I'm currently modeling the night elf and once complete will be doing some neat things with the animation in MotionBuilder. Nothing crude or stupid. This is a portfolio/demo reel project.

[Paelos]

On the upside, I got my shiny new copies of Modo, Cinema4D and MotionBuilder and I've used my spare time to start working on a neat project involving a night elf chick. ;)

Please never link that here, I get enough NE stupidity when I log into the game.

I was joking... well, sort of. I'm currently modeling the night elf and once complete will be doing some neat things with the animation in MotionBuilder. Nothing crude or stupid. This is a portfolio/demo reel project.

Thank God. After seeing all the female night elf "fan art" I wanted to gouge out my eyes. And no, don't ask me why I thought clicking that link was a good idea.

[Signe]

Ah.  Well, please bear with the rest of us while we attempt to reach your level of gaming experience and wisdom.  Of course by then you will have skyrocketed even further into the stratosphere of computer gaming, instilling a perpetual sense of awe in the rest of us as we bask in your presense. You will lord over the gaming subculture as the Sun does over our Earth.

Are you roleplaying?

[Fargull]

The crew I run with is 28-mid-teens right now, there are eight of us.  My main is Webster the Troll Warrior who is now 26th level.  No feeling of grind yet, but then we are all running quests, sharing them, taking apart and getting taken apart by the random Alliance group we stumble upon.  Right now Shadowfang Keep is probably the coolest damn place we stumbled into... just magic.

So far I am having a blast and have not had a stumble yet with issues.

Woot!

[Mesozoic]

Ah.  Well, please bear with the rest of us while we attempt to reach your level of gaming experience and wisdom.  Of course by then you will have skyrocketed even further into the stratosphere of computer gaming, instilling a perpetual sense of awe in the rest of us as we bask in your presense. You will lord over the gaming subculture as the Sun does over our Earth.

Are you roleplaying?

Trolling.

[Morfiend]

I dont like MMOGs any more. Then complain when I play them and dont like them.

I think that about sums up what you have said in this thread. The majority of people in this forum are enjoying the hell out of the game. OMG they are putting in more *mid* level content, im quitting. Errr.. must have missed some thing.

I agree with Mezoic, you hated WoW before you played it. Big supprise your are so gungho against it now. The fact you even enjoyed it a little bit is very supprising to me.

Also, I think a lot of your gripes are baised on what you *think* will happen. I play on a PVP server, and its great. So I have been killed by a high level a few times. That set me back maybe a totla of 15 minutes (for all the times I have been killed in pvp). But on the other hand, a group of level 40+ guys (4 of them) attacked me while I was questing last night. This led to an impromptu group of horde joing up to drive them off. It was very satisfying to have 8 lvl 25-35s kill them all using superior skill.